[AZG87]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

With the end of the Charger/Challenger cars its probably the end of the Muscle Car. The Mustang and Camaro aren't Muscle cars anymore, they are GT cars. The Mustang with anything S550 and up are really very good handling cars and the Camaros are an excellent handling cars. Muscle cars are generally considered cars that only go fast in a straight line.

The G87 M2 does have some of that heritage but it really is more of a GT car.

As another that went from a Mustang to a G87 I would concur. She was a drag strip intended build though less of a GTish car. But she was closer to a muscle car than the current one but still wouldn't really consider either a true muscle car.

[T-Rexx]

Originally Posted by mrdudley

Vin Diesel would look out of place behind the wheel of a G87, so not a muscle car.

/s

I am not sure he would.
If Dom could rock a light weight rotary RX7 with 20 inch polished chrome wheels, then I think a frozen grey G87 with black wheels could very well be part of his “family”.

[T-Rexx]

What defines a muscle car?
To me a muscle car is something that is strong, powerful, brutish, muscular and does not give a rats ass what other people think of it.
Using that (my) definition then yes the M2 would / could be seen as a muscle car, but it’s not limited to that.
Value is subjective, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. How you look at and love your car is really up to you.
Some people will get a Brooklyn grey with black wheels and to them, in their hearts their car is a brutal, mean, and savage muscle car, and they would be correct.
Others will get a nice blue (sepange I think it is) and it will be their luxurious euro performance car, and they will be correct.
Others will have a white 87 covered in carbon parts it it will be their precision track car, and they are correct….
You get my point.
It’s your car, your baby / monster / whatever you want it to be.
Buy it, love it, and enjoy it anyway you want.
How and why you love your car is your business.
At the end of the day that’s why we like to talk to each other, because we ALL LOVE OUR CARS, just for different reasons .

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by T-Rexx

I am not sure he would.
If Dom could rock a light weight rotary RX7 with 20 inch polished chrome wheels, then I think a frozen grey G87 with black wheels could very well be part of his “family”.

And a WRX, and an M5, and others IIRC. There have been a LOT of cars in those movies over the years. And didn't he drive a civic in the very first movie?

So yeah, maybe not the best litmus test.

[T-Rexx]

Originally Posted by Squidget

And a WRX, and an M5, and others IIRC. There have been a LOT of cars in those movies over the years. And didn't he drive a civic in the very first movie?

So yeah, maybe not the best litmus test.

Preach!

[curtdragon]

It is. You think BMW didn't know what it was doing whwn it built the engine to hold 1000 hp.

The ECU being locked is not on them but EPA or whoever.

Once you have that power it's hard to put down around a track.

As has been said some muscle can handle and stock it can.

Why does muscle have to be American. It's German muscle along with modified Audis

[T-Rexx]

Originally Posted by curtdragon

It is. You think BMW didn't know what it was doing whwn it built the engine to hold 1000 hp.

The ECU being locked is not on them but EPA or whoever.

Once you have that power it's hard to put down around a track.

As has been said some muscle can handle and stock it can.

Why does muscle have to be American. It's German muscle along with modified Audis

You are correct, muscle isn’t limited to the states.
AMG have been referred to as muscle cars for decades.
And for what it’s worth, my mate when ordering is G80 M3 was giddy with excitement as he looked at the skyscraper grey with black wheels demo car and said “with the grey and black combination and the pumped guards it just looks so mean, like a modern day muscle car”. Seriously he said that.
So why people fall in love cars is different , as long as they LOVE their car, they are all good in my book!

[T-Rexx]

And to play devils advocate,,, a huge contributing factor in what makes a muscle car is having an engine way bigger that what the body size requires.
The M2 is tiny in comparison to the M3/4 and the X3M.
I don’t know any other car that small that has an engine that big!!!
Just saying

[LateBrake8]

To me, muscle car = non-suv v8. I was going to say American only, but I do consider the c63s and rs7s of the world to be pretty muscle.

But you are a little convincing. Only a little though.

[Pathy01]

Call it whatever makes you happy. The definition of every word in every language is made up by one or many people. There’s disagreement on exactly how a majority of them should be defined and applied. This is probably one of the least important terms for anyone to stand on a hill and argue about. Drive the car, enjoy the car and call it whatever you want.

[SeanJP]

Originally Posted by Pathy01

Call it whatever makes you happy. The definition of every word in every language is made up by one or many people. There’s disagreement on exactly how a majority of them should be defined and applied. This is probably one of the least important terms for anyone to stand on a hill and argue about. Drive the car, enjoy the car and call it whatever you want.

Agreed. Words don't have intrinsic meanings, they have usages. It's hard to pin down exactly what would constitute a "muscle car." Any time you do, someone can pull up an example that fits that criteria - that practically everyone agrees is not a muscle car.

I think besides a set of fungible "rules" (big front engine, rwd, etc.) there's an intangible aspect. Muscle car looks and attitude, which is of course subjective. In my opinion the M2 fits the bill.

This thread isn't meant to make a definitive determination. I'm just putting the M2 in the muscle car conversation, because I believe it deserves to be there.

[T-Rexx]

I just like talking about cars, and it’s enjoyable (to me) to talk about different topics and opinions and hypotheticals.
Especially when it involves my pride and joy g87 m2 😍

[SeanJP]

Originally Posted by T-Rexx

I just like talking about cars, and it’s enjoyable (to me) to talk about different topics and opinions and hypotheticals.
Especially when it involves my pride and joy g87 m2 ��

Exactly! And right now there's a big muscle car void. The Camaro is gone (though some say it was no longer a muscle car), and all Challengers and Chargers are gone.

Charger is coming back with two platforms: Turbo 6 and all electric.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by SeanJP

Exactly! And right now there's a big muscle car void. The Camaro is gone (though some say it was no longer a muscle car), and all Challengers and Chargers are gone.

Charger is coming back with two platforms: Turbo 6 and all electric.

The 6 cyl is a hybrid, right? I thought we weren't going to get a pure ICE.

[curtdragon]

Originally Posted by Squidget

The 6 cyl is a hybrid, right? I thought we weren't going to get a pure ICE.

Who is this we stuff. I don't want any part of a Charger lol.
I barely can stand the Jeep I currently have

[techwhiz1]

M2 gives off the same vibe as an E30 M3; boy racer.

Wide fenders, fat tires, short wheel base with quick turn in.

It's not a muscle car, but it's a fun car.

I think the fun factor is all that really matters.

Can we all agree on that?

[SeanJP]

Originally Posted by Squidget

The 6 cyl is a hybrid, right? I thought we weren't going to get a pure ICE.

No, it’s a pure 3.0 liter I-6 twin turbo. They are also offering pure electric versions. Which, are expected to be incredibly heavy.

The turbo 6 is the Dodge hurricane engine.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

I think the fun factor is all that really matters.

Can we all agree on that?

Hell no. What matters is labels and tribalism and that everyone agrees with my totally arbitrary definitions. You are only allowed to have fun as meets my parameters. Even if your kind of fun in no way harms me, you are still a deviant and are thus not allowed to do it.

(Any political subtext here is obviously in the mind of the reader. Wiiiink.)

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Hell no. What matters is labels and tribalism and that everyone agrees with my totally arbitrary definitions. You are only allowed to have fun as meets my parameters. Even if your kind of fun in no way harms me, you are still a deviant and are thus not allowed to do it.

(Any political subtext here is obviously in the mind of the reader. Wiiiink.)

I'm dying. 🤣😂🤣😂

[BradMX5]

Agreement is against car forums ToS

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Hell no. What matters is labels and tribalism and that everyone agrees with my totally arbitrary definitions. You are only allowed to have fun as meets my parameters. Even if your kind of fun in no way harms me, you are still a deviant and are thus not allowed to do it.

(Any political subtext here is obviously in the mind of the reader. Wiiiink.)

your version of fun sucks and fuck you for having it!!! god i hate whimsical folly and the curiosity of the human spirit!!!

[beren]

meh - no its not a muscle car...