[subwoofer]

Originally Posted by VegasG42

So things were going so well over in the thread you started , that you decided to come over to this thread and share more of your wisdom ?

I see.

Well you guys who crashed that thread talked up the 240 so much that I had to try it and I was very underwhelmed. It reminded me of my 2022 M440i convertible. That was a 48v mild hybrid with extra torque off the line if I remember correctly. Sheesh! I have to re-evaluate whether I should just throw in the towel and cancel my order for the car with the smaller engine. Maybe that will drive better. Or look for something else. Not sure yet.

[IanH]

And thus another 230 troll is born. There's like 4 of them now. They see Matt Farah give an afterthought review that's somewhat positive and they think they've unlocked the cheat code to save some money.

Also you gotta question the legitimacy of the story, especially considering the timing and a bunch of completely invalid criticisms.

I agree the steering feel is lacking on G series bmws, but they all have the same deficiencies in feel, so why is this a point of pride for this guy who doesnt even own a bmw yet? Hasn't even driven the car he claims is superior for more than a test drive.

I suspect the 240 he supposedly drove had worn down runflat tires in the 225 front spec. It was probably also not in alignment... because there's next to no understeer on this car when it's properly tired and aligned.

[subwoofer]

Originally Posted by IanH

And thus another 230 troll is born. There's like 4 of them now. They see Matt Farah give an afterthought review that's somewhat positive and they think they've unlocked the cheat code to save some money.

Also you gotta question the legitimacy of the story, especially considering the timing and a bunch of completely invalid criticisms.

I agree the steering feel is lacking on G series bmws, but they all have the same deficiencies in feel, so why is this a point of pride for this guy who doesnt even own a bmw yet? Hasn't even driven the car he claims is superior for more than a test drive.

I suspect the 240 he supposedly drove had worn down runflat tires in the 225 front spec. It was probably also not in alignment... because there's next to no understeer on this car when it's properly tired and aligned.

Meh! I don’t care about the extra money. The 230is I drove were horrible because they all had RFTs and lumpy steering. Couldn’t find a single car with summer tires and the rear differential. The 240i had summer tires and about few thousand miles. It felt very similar to my 440i which I did not like very much. This brand may not be for me. I don’t value the straight line power and the rest is just bleh!

[AdonisP91]

Originally Posted by subwoofer

Meh! I don’t care about the extra money. The 230is I drove were horrible because they all had RFTs and lumpy steering. Couldn’t find a single car with summer tires and the rear differential. The 240i had summer tires and about few thousand miles. It felt very similar to my 440i which I did not like very much. This brand may not be for me. I don’t value the straight line power and the rest is just bleh!

I really don’t know what you are on about. Yes the car is heavy. Yes the steering lacks feel, but the handling is razor sharp and extremely responsive. The car goes exactly where you want it to. The stock suspension is definitely not choppy, however I do admit it isn’t as stiff as a stock 911 for example, so you do feel the weight of the car transfer around a little bit. That can be fixed with more performance oriented coilovers aftermarket if you like though.

As for your understeer claim, that can also be sorted with the proper tires. When I test drove the m440 and it has 225 F and 255 R tires I did feel a little understeer on the car. But if you went with a square 255 your understeer will be gone.

As for your last claim this is a car for straight lines only, see this:

[Pentland]

Originally Posted by subwoofer

Meh! I don’t care about the extra money. The 230is I drove were horrible because they all had RFTs and lumpy steering. Couldn’t find a single car with summer tires and the rear differential. The 240i had summer tires and about few thousand miles. It felt very similar to my 440i which I did not like very much. This brand may not be for me. I don’t value the straight line power and the rest is just bleh!

Watch the door doesn’t hit you on the way out.

[IanH]

So tell me, did the dealer who let you test drive their car tell you it was OK to push the car to the limits to experience this so called "understeer"? I have never pushed a car to the limits on a test drive and I can't imagine anyone would be OK with that happening. This dealer had a private track maybe?

I'm beginning to think that this random person on the internet doesn't actually know things about driving. Color me shocked!

[AdonisP91]

Originally Posted by IanH

So tell me, did the dealer who let you test drive their car tell you it was OK to push the car to the limits to experience this so called "understeer"? I have never pushed a car to the limits on a test drive and I can't imagine anyone would be OK with that happening. This dealer had a private track maybe?

I'm beginning to think that this random person on the internet doesn't actually know things about driving. Color me shocked!

When I test drove the m440, I pushed the car so hard I had the rear skid out (I quickly counter steered so never lost control, just a slight drift). When we got back to the dealer, the sales rep told me he never saw anyone drive a car like that, not even when they had the M experience days and they took out the M models. He was a good sport and didn’t complain. I guess he knew from the smile on my face I was going to buy one.

When I test drove the m240 before buying it, I was given the keys and went for a solo drive so the sales rep didn’t know what I was up to . Same thing when I test drove a 911 they let me go alone.

[wb8164]

I don't envy car sales people when they have to do demo rides in performance cars. It's like a mailman looking at a dog. You might tell him that the dog is friendly, but he's been bitten before.

[subwoofer]

Originally Posted by wb8164

I don't envy car sales people when they have to do demo rides in performance cars. It's like a mailman looking at a dog. You might tell him that the dog is friendly, but he's been bitten before.

I am an older guy and with that come some privileges. When I bought my 911 after my 2013 981 Boxster S from the same dealer, the sales guy gave me the key to a 2017 base Carrera manual and told me to have a blast. It was fun. Porsche of Nashua. For my Boxster 25 as well, since I was a repeat customer, I was given the key. He knew he didn't really have to sell the car to me but I ask him to come with me. He knows me well and he knew I was looking for a Boxster GTS allocation which he couldn't find for me but called me as soon as he had a 4 liter Boxster on the lot. LOL! He knew a P car addict so he didn't have to make a sale. The cars sell themselves. I think sales guys know the serious car guys from the tire kickers and knuckleheads looking for cheap thrills.

There is a local BMW dealer in FL who sold me my 440i who is similarly very accommodating to my requests. Unfortunately for me, he can't find a 230i for me with the limited slip to test drive. I can't really test a car like I would in southern Florida but steering feel, turn in and brakes are the first things I check in a car and then evaluate the ride on a straight away in comfort and sport mode. Resistance to turn in was very pronounced in the 240 but that is to be expected given its weight (on the front wheels) and after being used to a mid-engine Porsche. Brakes were typical BMW. Very grabby. IMO, the car can do with a lot less weight, better weighting of the steering (doesn't load up well at all, dead at center and then abrupt) and better chassis tuning. These are things Porsche does very welll and BMW used to do well but now, the most noticeable feature is the power and the rest is just very average.

Just my observations FWIW.

[IanH]

Yeah either that car was broken or you're just lying to prove some weird vendetta you have. The 240 turns in so sharp it's actually nuts considering the overall size. Turns in better than 3300lb cars I have driven.

Also nothing you say is echoed by Mischa in any of his videos.

[AdonisP91]

Originally Posted by IanH

Yeah either that car was broken or you're just lying to prove some weird vendetta you have. The 240 turns in so sharp it's actually nuts considering the overall size. Turns in better than 3300lb cars I have driven.

Also nothing you say is echoed by Mischa in any of his videos.

I don’t know what Subwoofer experienced, but my personal experience is the 240 has a very small dead zone top of center. Many cars, even Mercedes, have much more. That extra dead zone is all well and good on long drives on the highway since it will require little input, but I prefer the feeling from the 240 that might require a little more driver input. The dead zone is so small that the steering feels very responsive.

I can certainly sympathize with Subwoofer, the BMW doesn’t feel like the Porsches. However, in my case, I ruled out the Porsches. The 718 is simply too dam small for someone 192cm tall. There isn’t enough leg room. The 911 was the best car I have ever driven, has ample leg room, but it lacked cargo space and is incompatible with a rear hitch, which I wanted so that I can carry my bikes around.

The best car I could find for my overall needs, and there are more then I mentioned here, is the m240i. It isn’t perfect, but it is really dam good. It is also more than half the price of a 911. I would have considered an M2, but that is rwd only and another necessity for me was awd.

Bottom line as everyone has already said, find the best car for you, no one needs to shit on other vehicles. They all have their pro’s and con’s.

[subwoofer]

Originally Posted by AdonisP91

I don’t know what Subwoofer experienced, but my personal experience is the 240 has a very small dead zone top of center. Many cars, even Mercedes, have much more. That extra dead zone is all well and good on long drives on the highway since it will require little input, but I prefer the feeling from the 240 that might require a little more driver input. The dead zone is so small that the steering feels very responsive.

I can certainly sympathize with Subwoofer, the BMW doesn’t feel like the Porsches. However, in my case, I ruled out the Porsches. The 718 is simply too dam small for someone 192cm tall. There isn’t enough leg room. The 911 was the best car I have ever driven, has ample leg room, but it lacked cargo space and is incompatible with a rear hitch, which I wanted so that I can carry my bikes around.

The best car I could find for my overall needs, and there are more then I mentioned here, is the m240i. It isn’t perfect, but it is really dam good. It is also more than half the price of a 911. I would have considered an M2, but that is rwd only and another necessity for me was awd.

Bottom line as everyone has already said, find the best car for you, no one needs to shit on other vehicles. They all have their pro’s and con’s.

Too bad you don’t fit in the 718 because arguably it is a better handling car than the 911 in my experience. After five years with my 911, I started to miss my 981 Boxster so sold the 911. My 911 4 s while very fast, despite it being a manual, was less fun. I was finding myself driving faster and faster just to enjoy the car. The heft of the engine in the rear was always noticeable to me but the car was superb. Compared to that car, my 718 Boxster 25 is easier to rotate. I can take 90 degree turns carrying a fair amount of speed. It is amazing how that car can tackle tight corners. It is a very easy car to drive very fast because of how precise everything feels in the car. Steering, brakes, chassis are superb.

Obviously I can’t expect a sedan to handle like a dedicated sports car but I expected more from the 240 and that may be an unrealistic expectation on my part. My only recent experience with a sporty sedan was an M440i convertible that I bought new and sold in less than six months. It was a nice cruiser but it wasn’t what I had been looking for in a convertible. The steering was abysmal. I do think a lighter curb weight in the 2 series would make it better. That and better steering and more linear brake feel. One can only do so much to manage weight in a heavy car and it always shows regardless of the automaker.

Porsche does have an excellent roof transport system for the 911 which can be used for transporting road bikes. I am an avid cyclist too or was before being hit by an SUV in Florida. Now I ride gravel bikes mostly away from large SUVs and trucks. Just thought I should add that the new 911 (992.2) is as long and wide as a 2 series BMW. It has become a large car.

[AdonisP91]

Originally Posted by subwoofer

Too bad you don’t fit in the 718 because arguably it is a better handling car than the 911 in my experience. After five years with my 911, I started to miss my 981 Boxster so sold the 911. My 911 4 s while very fast, despite it being a manual, was less fun. I was finding myself driving faster and faster just to enjoy the car. The heft of the engine in the rear was always noticeable to me but the car was superb. Compared to that car, my 718 Boxster 25 is easier to rotate. I can take 90 degree turns carrying a fair amount of speed. It is amazing how that car can tackle tight corners. It is a very easy car to drive very fast because of how precise everything feels in the car. Steering, brakes, chassis are superb.

Obviously I can’t expect a sedan to handle like a dedicated sports car but I expected more from the 240 and that may be unrealistic. My only recent experience with a sporty sedan was an M440i convertible that I bought new and sold in less than six months. It was a nice cruiser but it wasn’t what I had been looking for in a convertible. The steering was abysmal. I do think a lighter curb weight in the 2 series would make it better. That and better steering and more linear brake feel. One can only do so much to manage weight in a heavy car and it always shows regardless of the automaker.

Porsche does have an excellent roof transport system for the 911 which can be used for transporting road bikes. I am an avid cyclist too or was before being hit by an SUV in Florida. Now I ride gravel bikes mostly away from large SUVs and trucks.

I can understand you didn’t like the steering but to call it abysmal is hyperbolic imo. I’m fairly certain an m440 convertible will drive the same as an m440 coupe. I drove that car, hard. I know what it can do. To me steering involves much more than just the feeling of the tires gripping. It involves 1) how fast it responds to input, or is there a large dead zone? 2) how precise the steering is, 3) yes the road feel, and 4) how smooth it is. Probably there is more but that comes top of mind.

Compared to 99% of the other cars on the market I’d say the BMW outperforms all the others, other than perhaps the road feel. As for road feel, sure I wouldn’t mind having it but it isn’t a deal breaker. I know how in control I am with the road from the noise my tires make, the pedal feel, and my ass and back’s connection to the seat. Taking all those into account, I have no problem knowing the limits I can push BMW’s. I know when I track it I will have a blast with my m240. But sure I can admit, Porsches do feel better.

Also, I know about roof transports, but they aren’t my preference and there were other things I didn’t like about the 911. For example, for my preferences the interior noise is obnoxious. There is so much noise from the wind and tires, in addition to the roaring engine. I get it they want the car as light as possible, but I would prefer more insulation and sound proofing. I like my cars fast but I don’t like the loud noise. Noise doesn’t make for faster lap times, all it does is ruin my music and wear down my senses on long trips. That was one major plus with the m240. When you turn off the ASD, it is pretty mild in terms of cabin noise given it’s performance.

I can only imagine how nice an EV must be, quiet but still a rocket. But EV’s were ruled out primarily due to lack of range when I do my cross country cycling trips. I have no desire to drive 4,000 kms in an EV.

[subwoofer]

Originally Posted by AdonisP91

I can understand you didn’t like the steering but to call it abysmal is hyperbolic imo. I’m fairly certain an m440 convertible will drive the same as an m440 coupe. I drove that car, hard. I know what it can do. To me steering involves much more than just the feeling of the tires gripping. It involves 1) how fast it responds to input, or is there a large dead zone? 2) how precise the steering is, 3) yes the road feel, and 4) how smooth it is. Probably there is more but that comes top of mind.

Compared to 99% of the other cars on the market I’d say the BMW outperforms all the others, other than perhaps the road feel. As for road feel, sure I wouldn’t mind having it but it isn’t a deal breaker. I know how in control I am with the road from the noise my tires make, the pedal feel, and my ass and back’s connection to the seat. Taking all those into account, I have no problem knowing the limits I can push BMW’s. I know when I track it I will have a blast with my m240. But sure I can admit, Porsches do feel better.

Also, I know about roof transports, but they aren’t my preference and there were other things I didn’t like about the 911. For example, for my preferences the interior noise is obnoxious. There is so much noise from the wind and tires, in addition to the roaring engine. I get it they want the car as light as possible, but I would prefer more insulation and sound proofing. I like my cars fast but I don’t like the loud noise. Noise doesn’t make for faster lap times, all it does is ruin my music and wear down my senses on long trips. That was one major plus with the m240. When you turn off the ASD, it is pretty mild in terms of cabin noise given it’s performance.

I can only imagine how nice an EV must be, quiet but still a rocket. But EV’s were ruled out primarily due to lack of range when I do my cross country cycling trips. I have no desire to drive 4,000 kms in an EV.

I keep my sports cars and transportation appliances separate. We own two modern Volvos for the latter. I drive back and forth from my summer and winter homes in my 2022 V90 CC wagon. It has the Bowers and Wilkins sound system and it is quiet in the cabin with excellent seats for long distance comfort. Gets 32 mpg. Admittedly, it doesn't have a single sporting bone in its body. Everytime I drive it after a drive in my Boxster, it feels very strange. But the Volvo does what it was intended to do and I am happy with the choice.

Yes the 911 has tons of road noise that can be fixed. But we digress too much. Good that you are happy with your BMW.

[IanH]

M440i was a convertible he tells us, weighing a piggy 4176 lbs

The m240 rwd is 3748lb, a full 428lb lighter. Even the xdrive is 305lb lighter.

And you are on and on about weight savings of 300lb making a difference? Wtf?

440 vert ain't gonna drive anything like a 240 despite being on the same platform.

I agree with your earlier statement. You should get a different brand.

[VegasG42]

Damn, the G42 looks good dropped.



Can't wait to get EDC Coilovers. Though I doubt I will lower it much more than a full inch.

The 3/4 inch drop I have with the Eibachs is still a really good ride. Haven't scraped anything. Speedbumps not a problem.

[bucketfoot]

Originally Posted by VegasG42

So things were going so well over in the thread you started , that you decided to come over to this thread and share more of your wisdom ?

I see.

Yep, I fully supported his choice in the other thread, but this is nothing more than trolling

[IanH]

Originally Posted by VegasG42

Damn, the G42 looks good dropped.

Attachment 3636336

Can't wait to get EDC Coilovers. Though I doubt I will lower it much more than a full inch.

The 3/4 inch drop I have with the Eibachs is still a really good ride. Haven't scraped anything. Speedbumps not a problem.

It looks dropped haha, but it actually is on stock suspension if I heard the video correctly. Just compression from that banked turn.

I'm also able to drive over anything on dinan springs without scraping, similar drop, it's definitely a sweet spot.

[subwoofer]

Originally Posted by bucketfoot

Yep, I fully supported his choice in the other thread, but this is nothing more than trolling

Really? And who crashed my thread on the 230i? 240i owners offering unsoliicted opinions. So I offered mine here on the 240 after driving it. You don't like it then don't read it.

[IanH]

The 230 isn't going to drive any different than the 240 in all the ways you claim to want. Just cancel your order and be gone already.

[subwoofer]

Originally Posted by IanH

The 230 isn't going to drive any different than the 240 in all the ways you claim to want. Just cancel your order and be gone already.

Gee, that's none of your business. Take your herd mentality and go away. Stop this back and forth and enjoy your car and don't try to censor me or tell me what to do. You don't own this forum or get to decide who posts what. You are happy to offer unsolicited opinions but don't want me to say anything back?

As for the 230i, it is C&D, Motor Trend, Matt Farah and other journalists that reviewed it who said it was reminescent of an old school 3 series. I made no claims except that I liked what I read about it. Don't put words in my mouth. I 'claimed' nothing except that I didn't like my 440i or the 240i that I just drove.

[Pentland]

Originally Posted by subwoofer

Gee, that's none of your business. Take your herd mentality and go away. Stop this back and forth and enjoy your car and don't try to censor me or tell me what to do. You don't own this forum or get to decide who posts what. You are happy to offer unsolicited opinions but don't want me to say anything back?

Oh pot /kettle! All you’ve banged on about recently is others posting on a thread you started. You don’t get to decide who posts what there either.

May be the internet isn’t for you.