[AZG87]

Originally Posted by Carefree

I was born and raised near Buffalo NY.
As the locals say, there are 2 seasons: winter and July.

And then there's here in AZ. We have the summer and the rest of the year. Can't complain about our highs in the 60s and 70s right now though sounds like we may be back to the 80s next week. Mornings are still cold though lol.

[IanH]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Heat cycling can be counter productive due to the significant amount of time the engine spends with cold oil and rich mixture where any hard use will cause bore and bearing scoring.

I’ve broken in a few dozen new engines with lots of varied load, no oil consumption or anything other than good performance relative to the engine spec. No significant number of heat cycles during the break-in period.

My last engine that I built myself (2.0 260bhp / 8300RPM naturally aspirated Caterham engine) had its first break-in oil change after 20 minutes of running for cam and ring break-in. It then was road broken-in at 1/3 to 2/3 throttle and revs for 500km (300 miles) with one heat cycle up to that point, also on a break-in oil. It then was filled with 5w50 synthetic and had about 50 flat-out runs on the dyno to finish detailed tuning.

After 2,000km of flat out track use this summer, it pulls brilliantly and uses no oil at all.

Not sure about the G87, but the oil heats exceptionally fast on my G42. Maybe thats the active grilles? I'm usually at 180deg oil temp within minutes of driving.

I've also never followed "suggested" break in procedure on any of my prior cars and none had any oil consumption or drivetrain complications. I focus on keeping the revs up and the load low, and then pushing the car a bit when everything is fully warm but staying under 50% throttle.

Nobody can convince me that a break in period of 800-1200 miles is actually required, because miles doesnt make any sense as a metric for break in. Breaking in the wheel bearings? maybe lol.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by IanH

Not sure about the G87, but the oil heats exceptionally fast on my G42. Maybe thats the active grilles? I'm usually at 180deg oil temp within minutes of driving.

I've also never followed "suggested" break in procedure on any of my prior cars and none had any oil consumption or drivetrain complications. I focus on keeping the revs up and the load low, and then pushing the car a bit when everything is fully warm but staying under 50% throttle.

Nobody can convince me that a break in period of 800-1200 miles is actually required, because miles doesnt make any sense as a metric for break in. Breaking in the wheel bearings? maybe lol.

Variability with lots of reverse load for ring seating, together with some mechanical sympathy seems to be the main requirement for a good break-in, with the exception of high lift cams and flat tappets needing medium revs for the first 20 mins or so of running to ensure oil flow during that critical break-in, but any need for that with an S58 should be accomplished at the factory.

The BMW procedure overall seems to be related more to the whole car, things such as the clutch need to be properly bedded (for example Helix, my Caterham clutch manufacturer, specify 500km of varied use before flat-out track use to keep the warranty).

The need for heat cycling seems to be related to Japanese 2-stroke air cooled engines, I’ve not seen it from high performance engine builders. As SBD recommend (a supplier I use for engine parts), the running-in procedure for car engines should not be used for motorcycles: https://sbdmotorsport.co.uk/wp-conte..._Procedure.pdf

[Blacktemplar]

Originally Posted by fzr100098

Just booked day after Christmas, they said 900 miles is ok

Called the dealer today, booked in for next Wednesday - currently at 965 miles, should be over 1,000 by the weekend. Happy days.

[IanH]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Variability with lots of reverse load for ring seating, together with some mechanical sympathy seems to be the main requirement for a good break-in, with the exception of high lift cams and flat tappets needing medium revs for the first 20 mins or so of running to ensure oil flow during that critical break-in, but any need for that with an S58 should be accomplished at the factory.

The BMW procedure overall seems to be related more to the whole car, things such as the clutch need to be properly bedded (for example Helix, my Caterham clutch manufacturer, specify 500km of varied use before flat-out track use to keep the warranty).

The need for heat cycling seems to be related to Japanese 2-stroke air cooled engines, I’ve not seen it from high performance engine builders. As SBD recommend (a supplier I use for engine parts), the running-in procedure for car engines should not be used for motorcycles: https://sbdmotorsport.co.uk/wp-conte..._Procedure.pdf

Yes I forgot to mention engine braking at every opportunity

[fzr100098]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Heat cycling can be counter productive due to the significant amount of time the engine spends with cold oil

That's an old wives tale/"slick 50" argument long debunked. Idling the engine cold does not cause wear, it's putting the engine under high load when the oil isn't up to temp (at least 180 F) that is the problem

Heat cycling is not counter productive it's an important part of the break in process

[fzr100098]

Originally Posted by IanH

Not sure about the G87, but the oil heats exceptionally fast on my G42. Maybe thats the active grilles? I'm usually at 180deg oil temp within minutes of driving.

Bizarre - are you looking at the oil temp or water temp guage? Takes my car a good 10 minutes or so to get up to temp

[IanH]

Originally Posted by fzr100098

Bizarre - are you looking at the oil temp or water temp guage? Takes my car a good 10 minutes or so to get up to temp

Asking voice command "what is my.current oil temperature"

[Good 4 2 reasons]

Originally Posted by fzr100098

Bizarre - are you looking at the oil temp or water temp guage? Takes my car a good 10 minutes or so to get up to temp

Its the moveable grill vents and lack of discrete oil cooler in the G42. My 2022 m240i oil would be up to temp in less than 5 miles of highway driving in Western North Carolina winters. I used the sport displays to pull up the oil temp on my G42.

My G87 takes forever to come up to temp because the cooling is "always on".

[HerbDean]

Break-in is killing me. Approx 250 miles since mid-November. I know... I need to just drive it. The weather and kids have not been cooperating. lol Or maybe I just don't get out enough.

[IanH]

Originally Posted by Good 4 2 reasons

Its the moveable grill vents and lack of discrete oil cooler in the G42. My 2022 m240i oil would be up to temp in less than 5 miles of highway driving in Western North Carolina winters. I used the sport displays to pull up the oil temp on my G42.

My G87 takes forever to come up to temp because the cooling is "always on".

I'm glad to hear it's the expected behavior.

I do have the extra oil cooler, doesn't appear to slow the oil heating down much.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by fzr100098

That's an old wives tale/"slick 50" argument long debunked. Idling the engine cold does not cause wear, it's putting the engine under high load when the oil isn't up to temp (at least 180 F) that is the problem

Heat cycling is not counter productive it's an important part of the break in process

Idling a new engine to warm it is a bad idea, it needs to have as much variable load as possible in it's early life, hence spending any amount of time warming it is counter productive to any benefit heat cycling a 4-stroke water cooled engine will have, which seems to be nil (from engine builder info), anyway.

Non of the top UK car engine builders seem to recommend heat cycling, this seems to be something the 2-stroke air-cooled motorcycle and skidoo community does.

[fzr100098]

Experienced 4 stroke motorcycle engine builders such as Chris Moore....I've also seen the results of a long "highway breakin" first hand on several occasions and it's not good. Lower power and oil consumption

https://www.gixxer.com/threads/heat-...eak-in.845239/

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by fzr100098

Experienced 4 stroke motorcycle engine builders such as Chris Moore....I've also seen the results of a long "highway breakin" first hand on several occasions and it's not good. Lower power and oil consumption

https://www.gixxer.com/threads/heat-...eak-in.845239/

Long highway break-in at constant speed is definitely a recipe for glazed bores, lower power and higher oil consumption. I have seen this on engines that have been babied during running-in / break-in. Varied load over 1/3 to 2/3 of the rev range every kilometre or so and from 1/3 to 2/3 of throttle followed by engine braking achieves the necessary variation without mechanically abusing the engine or need for heat cycling.

Raceline, SBD Engineering and Burton Power that I’ve dealt with in the UK all emphasize proper cam, tappet and ring seating (typically achieved mainly in the first 20 mins of running at varied medium revs), followed by varied load, building to flat-out runs after the first oil change, all achieved with minimum cooldown during the running-in period.

The only reason for heat cycling seems to be hardening of cast aluminium components that are going to experience high stresses and revs. This requires about 20 cycles at 300C, but doesn’t apply to non-reciprocation components, sintered steel, forged steel or forged aluminium. This narrows it down to cast pistons in high-revving 2-stroke engines as being critical, but low revving engines (below 8000RPM) or those with forged pistons don’t need this.

The Aluminium engine block and head on a 4-stroke water cooled engine don’t get up to a high enough temperature for heat cycling to have any significant effect, the water jackets keep the bulk components cool and cast or sprayed iron/steel cylinder liners don’t see any effect from heat cycling. An air cooled aluminium head and block that runs hotter may see some benefit.

The key running-in thing to accomplish is bedding the centre of the barrel edge of a modern rings to the honing cross-hatching, wearing the hatching high spots down and leaving the troughs to retain a very small amount of oil. Heat cycling doesn’t help this at all and a cold engine risks tighter clearances and piston skirt contact if it is revved too soon.

[SpaceGhost]

I have decided to go pick up my car from the dealer 200 miles away and drive home. I plan to shift up and down on the highway drive home to vary the rpms every few minutes. I figure if I run it up and down between 5th and 8th, I should get the varied rpm and load needed for break in even though I am cruising at 80 or so most of the way. What do you guys think about that plan?

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by SpaceGhost

I have decided to go pick up my car from the dealer 200 miles away and drive home. I plan to shift up and down on the highway drive home to vary the rpms every few minutes. I figure if I run it up and down between 5th and 8th, I should get the varied rpm and load needed for break in even though I am cruising at 80 or so most of the way. What do you guys think about that plan?

I’d maybe vary it even more. I wouldn’t use 8th and likely not 7th, mainly 3-6th.

Try and pick a time of day when you are able to speed up and slow down without impeding or being impeded by traffic. Go up to as higher speed as you feel comfortable, then fall back if you can to about half that speed. Use all the gears that vary the revs up to the BMW break-in maximum revs and/or speed in the manual.

The hard bit is applying enough throttle enough of the time, as the car accelerates fast enough that you can only use about 2/3 throttle for a few seconds at a time.

Use plenty of coast down with no throttle to slow the car down, shifting down for more engine braking. Don’t drop below about 1/3 revs (2400RPM) or lug the engine in any way by using large amounts of throttle at low revs.

If you have a passenger, they will find the significant changes in forces and noise very annoying.

[SpaceGhost]

Originally Posted by aerobod

I’d maybe vary it even more. I wouldn’t use 8th and likely not 7th, mainly 3-6th.

Try and pick a time of day when you are able to speed up and slow down without impeding or being impeded by traffic. Go up to as higher speed as you feel comfortable, then fall back if you can to about half that speed. Use all the gears that vary the revs up to the BMW break-in maximum revs and/or speed in the manual.

The hard bit is applying enough throttle enough of the time, as the car accelerates fast enough that you can only use about 2/3 throttle for a few seconds at a time.

Use plenty of coast down with no throttle to slow the car down, shifting down for more engine braking. Don’t drop below about 1/3 revs (2400RPM) or lug the engine in any way by using large amounts of throttle at low revs.

If you have a passenger, they will find the significant changes in forces and noise very annoying.

It will just be me. I will do this to the best of my ability but I-10 between Houston and San Antonio can be unpredictable. It is also a favorite hunting ground for Texas DPS troopers. Wish me luck.

Max rpms for break in is 4500...right?

My broker was going to cover the cost to have it trucked to my house from Houston but I just feel nervous about it. Back in 2019, my 2020 M340 was trucked from Maryland to my house and it was a nightmare getting the truck to deliver at a time I could meet it. They also smeared axle grease on my interior and scratched my front lower bumper/lip.

[Carefree]

Originally Posted by SpaceGhost

I have decided to go pick up my car from the dealer 200 miles away and drive home. I plan to shift up and down on the highway drive home to vary the rpms every few minutes. I figure if I run it up and down between 5th and 8th, I should get the varied rpm and load needed for break in even though I am cruising at 80 or so most of the way. What do you guys think about that plan?

Why not just take back roads for some of the miles? Sure it may take longer but you’ll have the opportunity to vary speed/gearing.

Doesn’t Rt. 90 run semi-parallel to I-10?

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by SpaceGhost

It will just be me. I will do this to the best of my ability but I-10 between Houston and San Antonio can be unpredictable. It is also a favorite hunting ground for Texas DPS troopers. Wish me luck.

Max rpms for break in is 4500...right?

My broker was going to cover the cost to have it trucked to my house from Houston but I just feel nervous about it. Back in 2019, my 2020 M340 was trucked from Maryland to my house and it was a nightmare getting the truck to deliver at a time I could meet it. They also smeared axle grease on my interior and scratched my front lower bumper/lip.

5000RPM max for the first 600 miles:

[SpaceGhost]

Thanks for the advice guys. I will consider varying my route a bit.

Apologies to OP for my inadvertent thread hijack.

[BroDoze]

I’m definitely having plenty of beatin-the-piss-out-of-it moments, sub 5k rpm, and now 6k rpm of course. Lots of varied driving.

[m-enjoyer]

picked up the car 2-3 weeks ago as soon as snow started to hit, put winter tires and rims on it immediately so I haven't even had a chance to drive it on summers, only has about 150~ miles so far just basic commuting to work