[gondolafanclub]

even if you had a magical 5% high yield savings account you are still losing money taking a loan but I forgot everyone on the internet is an investment wizard and always gets 11% annual ROI :P

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by gondolafanclub

even if you had a magical 5% high yield savings account you are still losing money taking a loan but I forgot everyone on the internet is an investment wizard and always gets 11% annual ROI :P

That isn't true.

If inflation is 6% and your salary keeps up with inflation and you borrow at a rate below inflation you do not lose money.

Home buyers that lock in at 4% win because the inflation has them paying back with cheaper dollars.

You only looked at investment opportunity and never considered inflation.

[gondolafanclub]

2024 inflation was 2.4% and homebuyers 'win' because they have an appreciating asset

I'll be honest and say I'm not very good at investing- I max out my 401k and a roth ira and beyond that I would prefer the guaranteed savings of paying cash over theoretical investment returns

[IanH]

Originally Posted by gondolafanclub

even if you had a magical 5% high yield savings account you are still losing money taking a loan but I forgot everyone on the internet is an investment wizard and always gets 11% annual ROI :P

I know jack all about investing but my brokerage account from the last 2 years is up 45-50% excluding Nvidia (which has returned like 4x for me) and like 80% of that money is in vanguard index funds.

Not that anyone is looking at the future based on the past, but I would have been FAR better off putting 0 down on all my cars (which I never do) and investing the cash... I'd be driving a 911 as a daily off the proceeds.

[wtb1313]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

Actually, I'd venture that the majority of BMW owners who can actually afford these vehicles (not spending 50% of their income on a car payment), make wise financial decisions. Those include not paying $1,500 more than they need to because they don't secure their financing prior to going to the dealer. And if you didn't know that dealerships pad interest rates & receive a kickback for financing, you probably don't fall into the above category of buyers. If one wants to pay an extra $1,500 in interest for a rapidly depreciating product, more power to them.

Contacting dealerships via email takes virtually no time, and very little effort. I haven't purchased a vehicle by going into a dealership and haggling with a sales associate in over 15 years & 20+ vehicles ago. All the information one needs is readily available.

You sound like a judgemental rude person more concerned with personal attacks and showing everyone that you are fully convinced in your own mind how smart you are compared to the world. Sounds like you’re fully bought in. Must be great to be around on a daily basis.

Rather than participating in community information sharing that in the long run will help the group, you bring negativity and judgments. My goal for this thread is community comraderie, so do me a favor and keep your judgements of how unsophisticated everyone is compared you out of it. The same points can be made using logic and reason without personally jabbing at others opinions or thoughts.

I’m certain this conversation will help other members here now and in the future, it’s helped me to think through things, and will be more valuable if it excludes attacking others choices or priorities.

[curtdragon]

Originally Posted by wtb1313

You sound like a judgemental rude person more concerned with personal attacks and showing everyone that you are fully convinced in your own mind how smart you are compared to the world. Sounds like you’re fully bought in. Must be great to be around on a daily basis.

Rather than participating in community information sharing that in the long run will help the group, you bring negativity and judgments. My goal for this thread is community comraderie, so do me a favor and keep your judgements of how unsophisticated everyone is compared you out of it. The same points can be made using logic and reason without personally jabbing at others opinions or thoughts.

I’m certain this conversation will help other members here now and in the future, it’s helped me to think through things, and will be more valuable if it excludes attacking others choices or priorities.

There are a lot of 🍆 on this forum. Everyone is always better than you lol. You have to know everything about everything unless you're poor than you don't know anything lol

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by wtb1313

You sound like a judgemental rude person more concerned with personal attacks and showing everyone that you are fully convinced in your own mind how smart you are compared to the world. Sounds like you’re fully bought in. Must be great to be around on a daily basis.

Rather than participating in community information sharing that in the long run will help the group, you bring negativity and judgments. My goal for this thread is community comraderie, so do me a favor and keep your judgements of how unsophisticated everyone is compared you out of it. The same points can be made using logic and reason without personally jabbing at others opinions or thoughts.

I’m certain this conversation will help other members here now and in the future, it’s helped me to think through things, and will be more valuable if it excludes attacking others choices or priorities.

Interesting that's what you took out of my post you quoted. I actually provided information that could be useful, i.e., dealerships pad the rate that one would likely get if they applied for financing from the financial institution themselves, and dealerships receive kickbacks from financing. Often times, they're double-dipping when you finance through them 1-2% or more on the rate & then a kickback from the lender). That's why when you receive a special rate or financing incentive, such as the BMW recent college grad rebate ($1,000), the dealership will tell you that you have to make 3-6 payments before paying off your loan or refinancing for a lower rate. That's untrue, but if you do pay it off or refinance, they have to pay back the incentive to the lender.

I also didn't lob personal attacks at anyone. The individual to whom I was replying indicated that buyers who care about a lower rate are "couponers". I suggested most buyers of high-end vehicles are able to afford them because they make wise financial decisions, i.e., saving $1,500 over the course of their loan. Not sure how that is a personal attack, but whatever.

The bottom line, to the original question posed, if the dealer won't accept outside financing, find another dealer

[miiipilot]

I was outright denied the use of outside financing. They were honest and said they weren't making enough money

I qualified for BMWs 5.29% but they added 1%. If i wanted the car, after i waited nearly 2 years, i had no choice

They also screwed me on a few other things on the sales side.

BMW of Westlake. Ohio.

[Bimmer Frank]

Originally Posted by miiipilot

I was outright denied the use of outside financing. They were honest and said they weren't making enough money

I qualified for BMWs 5.29% but they added 1%. If i wanted the car, after i waited nearly 2 years, i had no choice

They also screwed me on a few other things on the sales side.

BMW of Westlake. Ohio.

Ugh, that's terrible. That's absolutely not true that they are not making money, the manufacturer sells them the car with at least 10% profit margin if not more at MSRP. Not sure what the margin is on the M2, but there are ways to find out dealer invoice prices. And then to insult you by adding another 1% profit on the financing is just downright unscrupulous.

[miiipilot]

It was an awful experience from beginning to end. It was elevated to BMW customer relations including another forum member actually buying his way into my allocation. I had a $$ deposit, signed purchase order for the #1 allocation

His car was featured in Bimmer's home page. He took delivery 3 months before mine (but i was #1)

Zero resolution
I had to pay an extra $1000 ('23 v '24 pricing)
I lost the ability to do PCD (They paused the program for construction/expansion)
Charged extra %1 financing

[Ronin76]

Originally Posted by miiipilot

I was outright denied the use of outside financing. They were honest and said they weren't making enough money

I qualified for BMWs 5.29% but they added 1%. If i wanted the car, after i waited nearly 2 years, i had no choice

They also screwed me on a few other things on the sales side.

BMW of Westlake. Ohio.

That is absolutely disgusting.

When we bought my wife’s Audi the dealers interest rate was close to 8%. I was shocked considering my wife and I had credit scores over 800. I asked if there is a penalty to pay the loan off early. The finance guy said “no” so I went to my credit union the following week and got 1.25%.

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Originally Posted by Ronin76

That is absolutely disgusting.

When we bought my wife’s Audi the dealers interest rate was close to 8%. I was shocked considering my wife and I had credit scores over 800. I asked if there is a penalty to pay the loan off early. The finance guy said “no” so I went to my credit union the following week and got 1.25%.

Exactly. Now would be an excellent time to go to your local Credit Union & re-run the numbers. There's a high probability that they can do substantially better than the "stealership" did.

[BD3]

It is illegal for a dealer to refuse to accept financing that you secured on your own. When you secure outside financing, you are still providing the dealer with the cash required to make the purchase. The dealer has no right whatsoever to refuse to accept the money that you are providing, regardless of where and
how you got it. If a dealer refuses to accept your money, see your local district attorney. This is a plainly illegal act. No question whatsoever.

[IanH]

BMW recent rate of 5.29 is actually pretty competitive, but you have to get them to offer that to you and not mark it up.

Its sad that usaa has fallen off so much that i don't trust them to finance any more. Their rate is/was like 4.49

[NovaChris]

Former dealer finance guy here chiming in.
Ultimately they don’t care enough how you pay to jeopardize a sale. They prefer you to finance with them because of a few reasons. One, yes they do get “kick backs” for using one of their banks. Since they use these banks so much, they sometimes can *gasp!* beat the rate you have. This used to be more common.

As for “running your credit”, the Patriot Act requires what’s called a OFAC (office of foreign asset control) to be run to see if your on the bad list of people. Nobody at the dealership cares that your 700 score, they just want to make sure they have this box checked if they get audited, and they do.

Don’t overthink this guys, just buy the car and be happy.

[Ronin76]

Originally Posted by BD3

It is illegal for a dealer to refuse to accept financing that you secured on your own. When you secure outside financing, you are still providing the dealer with the cash required to make the purchase. The dealer has no right whatsoever to refuse to accept the money that you are providing, regardless of where and
how you got it. If a dealer refuses to accept your money, see your local district attorney. This is a plainly illegal act. No question whatsoever.

So, I have not purchased many cars in my lifetime so I may be missing something, but if you secured financing from say, a Credit Union, and you use their "their" money to purchase the car, wouldn't you be buying the car in cash in BMW's eye? So why would they refuse to accept a check you write out from your credit union for the cost of the car?

example...

Finance Guy - "how will you be paying? Will you be financing?"

Me - "I am not sure yet, what are your interest rates?" (I already know mine is 4% from from credit union but would consider BMW's if theirs is lower)

Finance Guy - "we are offering 6.5%...which is great considering current economic conditions"

Me - "No thanks, I will pay cash" (and I write out the check my credit union provided me)

I always thought this is how it would work, but I could be wrong.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by Ronin76

So, I have not purchased many cars in my lifetime so I may be missing something, but if you secured financing from say, a Credit Union, and you use their "their" money to purchase the car, wouldn't you be buying the car in cash in BMW's eye? So why would they refuse to accept a check you write out from your credit union for the cost of the car?

example...

Finance Guy - "how will you be paying? Will you be financing?"

Me - "I am not sure yet, what are your interest rates?" (I already know mine is 4% from from credit union but would consider BMW's if theirs is lower)

Finance Guy - "we are offering 6.5%...which is great considering current economic conditions"

Me - "No thanks, I will pay cash" (and I write out the check my credit union provided me)

I always thought this is how it would work, but I could be wrong.

That doesn't make sense. If you are financing with your CU, you wouldn't have the money to write a check. You would have CU paperwork to sign who would communicate with the dealership and they would pay the dealership.

Are you talking about getting a loan (some general equity type) from your CU where have been funded loan proceeds prior to going to the dealership, then you would be buying cash.

[IanH]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

That doesn't make sense. If you are financing with your CU, you wouldn't have the money to write a check. You would have CU paperwork to sign who would communicate with the dealership and they would pay the dealership.

Are you talking about getting a loan (some general equity type) from your CU where have been funded loan proceeds prior to going to the dealership, then you would be buying cash.

When you finance with a CU without the dealer, they just give you a check to take to the dealer. It's as if you are paying cash.

Many times the dealer will offer to work with the CU you choose, that's usually easier because it saves you some paperwork steps and a trip to the RMV... but it varies by state I am sure.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by miiipilot

I was outright denied the use of outside financing. They were honest and said they weren't making enough money

I qualified for BMWs 5.29% but they added 1%. If i wanted the car, after i waited nearly 2 years, i had no choice

They also screwed me on a few other things on the sales side.

BMW of Westlake. Ohio.

Obviously they don’t want to sell BMWs. I would have walked. They prey on your emotions and not your rational thinking and screw you over. You waited in good faith for two years and that’s how they treat you. No mention of all those caveats along the way.

[Ronin76]

Originally Posted by IanH

When you finance with a CU without the dealer, they just give you a check to take to the dealer. It's as if you are paying cash.

Many times the dealer will offer to work with the CU you choose, that's usually easier because it saves you some paperwork steps and a trip to the RMV... but it varies by state I am sure.

This is how I thought it was done. You get a check from them to fill out at the dealership.

[Ronin76]

Originally Posted by c1pher

Obviously they don’t want to sell BMWs. I would have walked. They prey on your emotions and not your rational thinking and screw you over. You waited in good faith for two years and that’s how they treat you. No mention of all those caveats along the way.

Couldn’t he have signed the papers and then immediately refinanced with his own financial institution?

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Ronin76

So, I have not purchased many cars in my lifetime so I may be missing something, but if you secured financing from say, a Credit Union, and you use their "their" money to purchase the car, wouldn't you be buying the car in cash in BMW's eye? So why would they refuse to accept a check you write out from your credit union for the cost of the car?

example...

Finance Guy - "how will you be paying? Will you be financing?"

Me - "I am not sure yet, what are your interest rates?" (I already know mine is 4% from from credit union but would consider BMW's if theirs is lower)

Finance Guy - "we are offering 6.5%...which is great considering current economic conditions"

Me - "No thanks, I will pay cash" (and I write out the check my credit union provided me)

I always thought this is how it would work, but I could be wrong.

I tell them you'll get my wire in the morning.

I did that with one dealer and he told me; "I can't guarantee someone else won't get the car by then." I told him if someone else comes in, go ahead and sell it He looked at me confused.

I told him, his was not the only car in the world and since it had been sitting for two months I was confident it would be there.

I now don't do business with jerks and show that by walking withy money.