[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by mckman

Seems like a below industry average year for BMW, especially compared to MB. Although EV sales are up for 2024, Q4 EV sales are not encouraging. Low price premium non plug-in hybrids would help.

MB has a fresher model lineup and more offerings across it, and commercial and consumer vans stateside.


Looking at everything else at the top are all much cheaper brands with 25k plus cars with a max price of 60. Volume sales with lower profit margins per car.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Marcon71

The 3 series should be their bread and butter "Civic" sales leader. If I worked for BMW I would be focused here to get their volumes up. Forgot about the new 4dr 2 series as a good volume leader.

The 3 series goes in phases with leases often the bulk of sales so 3yrs waves. In general this would be BMWs entire lineup. I would be curious to see bmw sales vs. lease numbers.

I would think the updated 2 will get a massive bump in sales next year with the LCI. Similar to how the 2 got one when the 2 series dropped and M2

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by camerbmw

Because Rivian is currently the David that is still able to survive with one car before they start selling more affordable and higher volumes R2. BMW has no compelling ev offer for the US market. Sedan (not popular in America)and $90ish iX (expensive and niche).

Rivian gets alot of tax incentives and Amazon ordered 100,000 EV vans so they are in a unique spot and lots of investors behind them.

Next year the new ground up EVs will start arriving.

[Bimmerfun82]

• Mini redesigns not well received
• X5 has buoyed sales, very imp
• Prices of iX and XM are at a real or perceived ceiling
• EV growth is impressive, BMW has the all around best EVs on the market
• Handschalter has put enthusiasm into the Z4
• X3’s are flying off the shelves

Looking forward to seeing the global numbers, which I think will see a decline given waning China demand

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Mini redesigns not well received
X5 has buoyed sales, very imp
Prices of iX and XM are at a real or perceived ceiling
EV growth is impressive, BMW has the all around best EVs on the market
Handschalter has put enthusiasm into the Z4
X3’s are flying off the shelves
Looking forward to seeing the global numbers, which I think will see a decline given waning China demand

If BMW is going to do ceiling cars they need to be 100% standouts... G wagons, SRT Hellcats, Raptor, GT3 level of design, performance and intended purpose.

If not people don't buy them 8 series, XM, Z4, I8 etc

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

If BMW is going to do ceiling cars they need to be 100% standouts... G wagons, SRT Hellcats, Raptor, GT3 level of design, performance and intended purpose.

If not people don't buy them 8 series, XM, Z4, I8 etc

Yep. Wouldn’t put the Z4 in that category - it would be a Z4 M, which we all desperately want. Would love a halo sports car that’s not a massive sedan or coupe. The XM is bizarre, more of a niche than a halo.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Yep. Wouldn’t put the Z4 in that category - it would be a Z4 M, which we all desperately want. Would love a halo sports car that’s not a massive sedan or coupe. The XM is bizarre, more of a niche than a halo.

That would sell.

Bmw could do more with the Z4 and make a better car with a higher sales price. Look at the 718 lineup. Everyone for years have been like give us an M, put a roof on it, give a motor,suspension and brakes.

I think bmw would of killed the z a long time ago if it wasn't shared with Toyota.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

That would sell.

Bmw could do more with the Z4 and make a better car with a higher sales price. Look at the 718 lineup. Everyone for years have been like give us an M, put a roof on it, give a motor,suspension and brakes.

I think bmw would of killed the z a long time ago if it wasn't shared with Toyota.

The next gen boxster/cayman going electric should allow BMW to justify the further investment. Porsche is making a huge misstep and apparently reconsidering the decision, but if BMW would double down and make a coupe and roadster with a bigger engine (not sure S58 would fit?) and all the goodies it would be incredible and a massive success for the brand. Regs would have to be relaxed in certain countries and EU, but at least in the states it would sell.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by fanofbmwe46

I bet the ROI on the BEVs suck… they probably spend way more on advertising per BEV sold than ICE. I wish electric would stop being shoved down the throat of consumers.

People are not forced to buy EVs yet. But most EV owners don't want to go back to gas. Battery tech is developing, but electric motor performance makes ICE look pretty primitive.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

People are not forced to buy EVs yet. But most EV owners don't want to go back to gas. Battery tech is developing, but electric motor performance makes ICE look pretty primitive.

Most BEV owners also have an ICE in the garage, and I suspect that will continue for a long time.

[rgw]

Originally Posted by camerbmw

Because Rivian is currently the David that is still able to survive with one car before they start selling more affordable and higher volumes R2. BMW has no compelling ev offer for the US market. Sedan (not popular in America)and $90ish iX (expensive and niche).

Well they have two vehicles: R1T and R1S. Additionally, their volume is affected by incredibly aggressive lease and financing offers. I think Rivian is making unsound financial services decisions to juice their numbers on the manufacturing side to placate investors. This will come home to roost eventually.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

The next gen boxster/cayman going electric should allow BMW to justify the further investment. Porsche is making a huge misstep and apparently reconsidering the decision, but if BMW would double down and make a coupe and roadster with a bigger engine (not sure S58 would fit?) and all the goodies it would be incredible and a massive success for the brand. Regs would have to be relaxed in certain countries and EU, but at least in the states it would sell.

Porsche is ...may likely... do it BMWs way and give people the power of choice on the new EV platforms, have an ICE motor in them.

I would think a s58 could fix let alone in a new platform.

I think regs in places including the EU are starting to relax as everyone realizes the EV push of 2020-2022 isnt the dream folks where selling.

https://www.techradar.com/vehicle-te...ngines-running


https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/n...or-to-e-fuels/

I think EU s will allow a work around for e fuels... which everyone will like

[Wills2]

Interesting that BEV sales dropped in the last quarter vs 23 from what was a year of growth up until then, still nearly 9 in every 10 cars sold isn't a BEV.

[odiesback]

BMW beagging tgat it found 50k+ fools out there!

[bandersen]

Originally Posted by mckman

Seems like a below industry average year for BMW, especially compared to MB. Although EV sales are up for 2024, Q4 EV sales are not encouraging. Low price premium non plug-in hybrids would help.

Was going to post the exact same graphic (Saturday WSJ)….we all know that any marketing group past a 101 level class can spin any number, putting lipstick on a pig, but that graph is telling.

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

People are not forced to buy EVs yet. But most EV owners don't want to go back to gas. Battery tech is developing, but electric motor performance makes ICE look pretty primitive.

You’re absolutely right.

Every time I get in and drive an appliance-like ICE vehicle (basically any ICE CUV blob or sedan, which is >95% of all ICE vehicles - not speciality vehicles like my manual E82 or Z4s or M2s), I’m reminded why I love my EV.

I fully recognize that, sure, the EV is also an appliance, but it’s much better as an appliance than any noisy, rackety ICE vehicle.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Rivian gets alot of tax incentives and Amazon ordered 100,000 EV vans so they are in a unique spot and lots of investors behind them.

Next year the new ground up EVs will start arriving.

Rivian also got a $6B loan -- Biden economics at work -- for a battery factory.

But it comes with a high price. It has to subject its workers to auto union domination.

When will auto companies learn...

Rivian does possibly have a "winner" with its BEV line of commercial vehicles and the Amazon order is a positive sign of that. (I've read the Rivian commercial vehicles are quite good.) Think that's what the investors are counting on. And they may prove to be right.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Marcon71

The 3 series should be their bread and butter "Civic" sales leader. If I worked for BMW I would be focused here to get their volumes up. Forgot about the new 4dr 2 series as a good volume leader.

It seems the 3 series sedan was scarcely available for a good part of the year.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by bandersen

Was going to post the exact same graphic (Saturday WSJ)….we all know that any marketing group past a 101 level class can spin any number, putting lipstick on a pig, but that graph is telling.

Does anyone know the global numbers. I want to know if BMW has kept the premium brand leader crown.

[jphcbpa]

Originally Posted by camerbmw

I think BMW should be concerned that they are selling less BEV than Rivian in the US. BEV is the future and the technology driving growth for the automotive industry. I drive an iX and I see that this model has declined YoY. I am not surprised. Competition is fierce and will only get stronger. I personally will not get another BMW but will never get other than a BEV car. No wonder why German automakers are in trouble.

It will be interesting to see how the BEV iX5 and iX7 sell in 2 to 3 years when they launch

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Rivian also got a $6B loan — Biden economics at work — for a battery factory.

But it comes with a high price. It has to subject its workers to auto union domination.

When will auto companies learn...

Rivian does possibly have a "winner" with its BEV line of commercial vehicles and the Amazon order is a positive sign of that. (I've read the Rivian commercial vehicles are quite good.) Think that's what the investors are counting on. And they may prove to be right.

Yeah if it wasn't for this they would be dead.

Lucid is also in a weird spot

[LuisBoston]

I predict Rivian will be fine. They have a great product (not some gimmick truck) and a pipeline that is eagerly anticipated (R2 and R3).

Also, some ppl seem to forget that massive innovation and technological shift is only possible with govt intervention. It takes all of society to spark and encourage innovation. Go back in history and you’d be hard-pressed to find big shifts in technology / societal advancement without collective interventions.