[IanH]

It's funny to me that the reason the M2 doesnt have the 360 camera is only the front camera, because it didn't fit the grille and they clearly prioritized that specific design over functionality.

Wont stop me from buying an M2 AWD in a few years...

[JABCAT]

Funny, nobody said they shouldn't be an option nor "hated" on anybody that wants them but yet people get their panties in a bunch.

From an objective perspective:
1. They're unnecessary. One can drive, park, maneuver the vehicle without them.

2. They add cost to the vehicle, whether or not one options them, the components necessary are typically put in the vehicle and added to the base cost.

3. They add a more complex system(s) to the car that can break/act up.

4. Out of warranty, they can be expensive to fix/replace.

It's funny to watch people complain about the increased weight, dimensions, and cost of these performance vehicles, but then complain that they don't have unnecessary features. The M2 (and many modern vehicles) is already bloated with features that most will never use.

Back to the original question, choosing not to by a performance vehicle because it doesn't have 360 cameras makes one wonder why even by a performance car? Might as well not even consider it because it doesn't come in manual 🤔

[Bimmer Frank]

Originally Posted by qualatio

Im looking for a small size sports vehicle, struggling between g87 m2cs and cayman gts.
If m2cs get acc&360cam, i will take it, otherwise i take the cayman.

This almost seems like a troll to me, unless the pricing is way different in China, these 2 cars are not anywhere near in the same price range at all. In the US the Cayman GTS starts at 99k while the M2 starts at 65k.

And for that 99k, that's a barebones car, Porsche is infamous for gouging on all of their options, heck just adding an electrically adjustable seat is like 3k, which is standard on the M2.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by qualatio

I think the question is,
"When bmw can't offer more tech&comfort then a porsche, within similar msrp and performance",
Wht you gonna choose?

LOL, that's so backwards. Porsche doesn't have a car ANYWHERE close to the M2's performance for the same cost.

The cheapest sports car Porsche offers is the 718 Cayman, and that's what, over $75K? With no options (good luck finding one), and only a 300hp 4 cyl engine.

The M2 is a phenomenal value for money, even without cameras.

[curtdragon]

This thread is hilarious.

[koopa]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

It's funny to watch people complain about the increased weight, dimensions, and cost of these performance vehicles, but then complain that they don't have unnecessary features. The M2 (and many modern vehicles) is already bloated with features that most will never use.

Some of that is true but come on, how much would the entire camera system weigh? Like a pound even with the wiring? It's already a heavy car so adding the cameras and even ACC as an option isn't going to make a difference.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by qualatio

I think the question is,
"When bmw can't offer more tech&comfort then a porsche, within similar msrp and performance",
Wht you gonna choose?

A 718 GTS has a base of $100k

The M4 has all the features at a base of $80k

Comparing the features of an M2 to the features of a 718 GTS is specious.

Are folks going to whine that a $100k car requires you to spend $2300 to get maps and nav?

I looked at a 718 GTS before deciding on the M2. My M2 config with individual paint comes in at $80k. The 718 with the options, I think makes it compelling is $115.

We can compare the two, but let's be realistic. The base 718 is down almost 200hp from the M2 and starts at $72k. That's the direct comparison or as close to direct as you will get. Configured with things like adaptive suspension, nav, etc the 718 with a 4cyl engine comes in at $90k.

I'm assuming a 6 speed for both.
So an underpowered wimp of a Porsche costs more than a maxed out M2 by $10k.

Hard pass....

My daily driver has all the tech stuff. My M2 is for visceral feel and a smile.

[jas165]

Originally Posted by IanH

It's funny to me that the reason the M2 doesnt have the 360 camera is only the front camera, because it didn't fit the grille and they clearly prioritized that specific design over functionality.

Wont stop me from buying an M2 AWD in a few years...

That’s not the reason why.

See https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=31661125

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by jas165

That’s not the reason why.

See https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=31661125

Corp speak for "it's a driver's car" translates to: "we don't want to cannabilize our other segments, including the M240 and the M4."

[two_three_two]

i see both sides of this. while i would appreciate and probably have optioned the 360 camera, i also chose to deliberately buy and daily a (relatively) de-contented sports sedan in the face of other, more luxurious options (RC F, M3/4, C63, etc) in order to get a 6 speed RWD experience. i actually think BMW could make a business case for an even more stripped down version to sit at 60k flat (no door handles just pulls, less sound insulation, base audio vs b/w system, cloth seats with no heaters, etc)

[Squidget]

Also, anyone who thinks BMW left things out because of laziness or mistakes has it backwards, I think.

I assume they basically took a M4, and worked backwards to chop it down. I assume this based on how many parts they share.

So they spent effort REMOVING stuff and scaling down. For sales and segmentation reasons, I'm sure. Given how much car we get for the money, it's hard to be too upset.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

i actually think BMW could make a business case for an even more stripped down version to sit at 60k flat (no door handles just pulls, less sound insulation, base audio vs b/w system, cloth seats with no heaters, etc)

Interesting theory. I think at that point you are entering the "Supra tuner" domain. By that I mean: people who just want a track car and won't DD it probably buy something cheaper than an M and tune it up. Might be hard for BMW to compete in that space.

I don't think BMW wants the M brand to represent stripper cars, regardless. They want M as a brand to be the best of both worlds, performance and luxury. Aiming at Porsche, not at GRMN. BMW's track centric trims are always MORE expensive than the base models, AFAIK anyway.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Also, anyone who thinks BMW left things out because of laziness or mistakes has it backwards, I think.

I assume they basically took a M4, and worked backwards to chop it down. I assume this based on how many parts they share.

So they spent effort REMOVING stuff and scaling down. For sales and segmentation reasons, I'm sure. Given how much car we get for the money, it's hard to be too upset.

I'm definitely upset
For everything the M2 lacks in "amenities" my i4 M50 has them. So my daily is the i4 and my weekend car will be the M2.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

I'm definitely upset
For everything the M2 lacks in "amenities" my i4 M50 has them. So my daily is the i4 and my weekend car will be the M2.

I don't know how to parse a sentence that compares an electric touring sedan to an ICE sports couple.

[ModelDeletion]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

i see both sides of this. while i would appreciate and probably have optioned the 360 camera, i also chose to deliberately buy and daily a (relatively) de-contented sports sedan in the face of other, more luxurious options (RC F, M3/4, C63, etc) in order to get a 6 speed RWD experience. i actually think BMW could make a business case for an even more stripped down version to sit at 60k flat (no door handles just pulls, less sound insulation, base audio vs b/w system, cloth seats with no heaters, etc)

Have you considered GR86/BRZ?

[Tag]

First person to name what other BMW model/s sold in NA that do not offer 360 cameras as an option wins.

Go...

[Bimmer Frank]

Originally Posted by Tag

First person to name what other BMW model/s sold in NA that do not offer 360 cameras as an option wins.

Go...

530i, 530e, and 540i

[ModelDeletion]

Originally Posted by Tag

First person to name what other BMW model/s sold in NA that do not offer 360 cameras as an option wins.

Go...

I just couldn’t understand why would BMW think 360 camera would be a determining factor for someone shopping M cars? Carbon ceramic brakes, probably yes? 50 more BHP on M3/4, yes? Carrying adults at the back, yes? But 360 cameras mainly used for avoiding kerbing wheels, oh come on BMW.

could the only explanation being the shape of the car preventing 360 cam to work properly? Then I can’t understand how the designing team would screw up that… though I am guilty of that too in our engineering department 🤣

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Interesting theory. I think at that point you are entering the "Supra tuner" domain. By that I mean: people who just want a track car and won't DD it probably buy something cheaper than an M and tune it up. Might be hard for BMW to compete in that space.

I don't think BMW wants the M brand to represent stripper cars, regardless. They want M as a brand to be the best of both worlds, performance and luxury. Aiming at Porsche, not at GRMN. BMW's track centric trims are always MORE expensive than the base models, AFAIK anyway.

so its not a totally novel concept as im basically aping the idea of the F80 M3 "pure" model they sold in aussieland, which was an F80 comp sold in stripper form (19 inch wheels, non adaptive LED headlights, no leather seats, dash, or heating elements, base sound system, no leather on the door cards, etc sold for ~70k USD down under). im sure this was done to keep the M3 price competitive in an expensive market.

i personally think theres a hole in the track-ready new car market as nothing really sits between a CTR and an M2. but maybe this is too specific/small of a niche

Originally Posted by ModelDeletion

Have you considered GR86/BRZ?

lmao no.

[BIGW0RM]

Originally Posted by kudos

If you daily your car and don't track you wasted your money on the M2 and should have went M240i instead.

Oh please. You’re silly.

99% of the m2/m3/m4 owners here don’t track and we all know it. And if I was to track, I’d be back in a 911 for that.

And based on your post history you certainly don’t appear to either. 🤣

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I don't know how to parse a sentence that compares an electric touring sedan to an ICE sports couple.

Read again.

It absolutely does not compare them. No comparison, different cars for a different reason.

The i4 is my daily. It's got a sunroof and all the nice amenities for a proper GT.

The M2 is my weekend hooligan car without a bunch of frills and a "boy racer" look like the E30 had.

No comparison which is why I will own both.

[koopa]

Originally Posted by Tag

First person to name what other BMW model/s sold in NA that do not offer 360 cameras as an option wins.

Go...

I'm not sure what Z4 owners want more, surround view or ventilated seats. I've certainly heard complaints about both.