[Jay_328]

Originally Posted by CMD

Why are you name calling?

Why would you do that?

Anyway, are you here illegally?

Then yes, you are definitely part of the problem.

It's interesting that an illegal immigrant would feel comfortable coming here and then calling a citizen a moron. Says a lot about the person, no?

Do you really care if he calls you a moron online?

He stated earlier that he has a valid visa. We can only assume it's true online.

Everyone here is well aware of your feelings on this subject. Your passion is admirable but your persistance may be mistaken for something else. But do you really care about my online opinion?

[jcase33]

Originally Posted by Jay_325Ci

Everyone here is well aware of your feelings on this subject. Your passion is admirable but your persistance may be mistaken for something else. But do you really care about my online opinion?

I wish more people were like him.

[ga-bmwdrvr]

Originally Posted by CMD

Not one of those immigrant sons would have thought about picking up another country's flag and waving it to represent who they were. It would have been a disgrace to their parents who had sacrificed so much to be here. These immigrants truly knew what it meant to be an American. They stirred the melting pot into one red, white and blue bowl.

What do you think she meant by that paragraph as it appliesto foreigners today? I just find it ironic that you have a little mexican flag below your avatar. I personally do not see anything wrong with being proud of your roots.

[NFS]

A non-american view:

I don't disagree with the principle that immigrants should embrace America and work hard to fulfill their dreams.

But ... once an immigrant becomes an American - surely they must have the same entitlements and rights (in terms of welfare) as someone lucky enough to be born in the USA?

Otherwise - you are asking them to embrace a country which does not truly accept them and are effectively creating second class citizens.

The biggest flaw in the argument set out in the letter is the comments regarding Ellis island. The fact is that no-one can arrive in America in this way with a hope of obtaining citizenship. Thats why you have illegal imigrants - because legal immigration to America is nigh on impossible for those from undeveloped countries.

When ellis island was open - america needed new blood to build itself. Now the doors are closed and those lucky enough to be on the other side are jealously guarding their good fortune.

The USA is the richest country in the world. In contrast with the majority of the human race this wealth is almost indecent.

I am incredibly lucky to have been born in a country where I do not need to worry about day to day survival. One where I recieved a fantastic eductation, quality healthcare and have freedom to earn money, own property and better myself.

The rest of the world is out there - and they want a piece of this. I think we kid ourselves that the immigration issue is about other people not living up to our work ethic and taking that which we have earned.

The reality is that this is not the case - it is about people wanting what we have and are lucky enough to take for granted.

Don't kid yourself that immigrants are not hard working. They are the people who clean our streets / shops / cars / houses / gardens. They take the jobs no-one else is prepared to do and earn less than us because they were born in the wrong place.

I don't have an answer to this, but what I do have is respect for all people and an understanding that I am incredibly lucky in my life.

The biggest stroke of luck was that I was born in an affluent developed country.

My country established itself by annexing most of the world and stealing it's natural wealth and resources. The USA exists because europeans 'stole' it from the indigenous population - again to plunder it's natural wealth.

Lets be honest about immigration - we want to keep the rest of the world at the gates because we do not want to dilute our own personal wealth.

[- Paul -]

Originally Posted by needforspeed

A non-american view:

I don't disagree with the principle that immigrants should embrace America and work hard to fulfill their dreams.

But ... once an immigrant becomes an American - surely they must have the same entitlements and rights (in terms of welfare) as someone lucky enough to be born in the USA?

Otherwise - you are asking them to embrace a country which does not truly accept them and are effectively creating second class citizens.

The biggest flaw in the argument set out in the letter is the comments regarding Ellis island. The fact is that no-one can arrive in America in this way with a hope of obtaining citizenship. Thats why you have illegal imigrants - because legal immigration to America is nigh on impossible for those from undeveloped countries.

When ellis island was open - america needed new blood to build itself. Now the doors are closed and those lucky enough to be on the other side are jealously guarding their good fortune.

The USA is the richest country in the world. In contrast with the majority of the human race this wealth is almost indecent.

I am incredibly lucky to have been born in a country where I do not need to worry about day to day survival. One where I recieved a fantastic eductation, quality healthcare and have freedom to earn money, own property and better myself.

The rest of the world is out there - and they want a piece of this. I think we kid ourselves that the immigration issue is about other people not living up to our work ethic and taking that which we have earned.

The reality is that this is not the case - it is about people wanting what we have and are lucky enough to take for granted.

Don't kid yourself that immigrants are not hard working. They are the people who clean our streets / shops / cars / houses / gardens. They take the jobs no-one else is prepared to do and earn less than us because they were born in the wrong place.

I don't have an answer to this, but what I do have is respect for all people and an understanding that I am incredibly lucky in my life.

The biggest stroke of luck was that I was born in an affluent developed country.

My country established itself by annexing most of the world and stealing it's natural wealth and resources. The USA exists because europeans 'stole' it from the indigenous population - again to plunder it's natural wealth.

Lets be honest about immigration - we want to keep the rest of the world at the gates because we do not want to dilute our own personal wealth.

Could not have put it better myself -

[CnoteMD]

Originally Posted by needforspeed

A non-american view:

I don't disagree with the principle that immigrants should embrace America and work hard to fulfill their dreams.

But ... once an immigrant becomes an American - surely they must have the same entitlements and rights (in terms of welfare) as someone lucky enough to be born in the USA?

Otherwise - you are asking them to embrace a country which does not truly accept them and are effectively creating second class citizens.

The biggest flaw in the argument set out in the letter is the comments regarding Ellis island. The fact is that no-one can arrive in America in this way with a hope of obtaining citizenship. Thats why you have illegal imigrants - because legal immigration to America is nigh on impossible for those from undeveloped countries.

When ellis island was open - america needed new blood to build itself. Now the doors are closed and those lucky enough to be on the other side are jealously guarding their good fortune.

The USA is the richest country in the world. In contrast with the majority of the human race this wealth is almost indecent.

I am incredibly lucky to have been born in a country where I do not need to worry about day to day survival. One where I recieved a fantastic eductation, quality healthcare and have freedom to earn money, own property and better myself.

The rest of the world is out there - and they want a piece of this. I think we kid ourselves that the immigration issue is about other people not living up to our work ethic and taking that which we have earned.

The reality is that this is not the case - it is about people wanting what we have and are lucky enough to take for granted.

Don't kid yourself that immigrants are not hard working. They are the people who clean our streets / shops / cars / houses / gardens. They take the jobs no-one else is prepared to do and earn less than us because they were born in the wrong place.

I don't have an answer to this, but what I do have is respect for all people and an understanding that I am incredibly lucky in my life.

The biggest stroke of luck was that I was born in an affluent developed country.

My country established itself by annexing most of the world and stealing it's natural wealth and resources. The USA exists because europeans 'stole' it from the indigenous population - again to plunder it's natural wealth.

Lets be honest about immigration - we want to keep the rest of the world at the gates because we do not want to dilute our own personal wealth.

Finally a glimpse of intelligence among the many senseless posts I've seen on this forum regarding immigration.

[deutschmann59]

I think, for some reason, the word "illegal" keeps getting lost here. Isn't that what we're talking about, as in "unlawful, criminal"?

When I keep hearing these arguments "illegals do the jobs most people don't want" then what about LEGAL immigrants with little or no education? Aren't illegals stealing work away from them?

[vladinecko]

Originally Posted by CnoteMD

Finally a glimpse of intelligence among the many senseless posts I've seen on this forum regarding immigration.

+1

[NFS]

Originally Posted by sharp1183

I think, for some reason, the word "illegal" keeps getting lost here. Isn't that what we're talking about, as in "unlawful, criminal"?

When I keep hearing these arguments "illegals do the jobs most people don't want" then what about LEGAL immigrants with little or no education? Aren't illegals stealing work away from them?

In my post I only mentioned 'illegal' immigrants when making the point that 'legal' immigration to the USA from the undeveloped world is a virtual impossibility.

Both legal and illegal immigrants tend to end up doing the sort of hard, low paid, menial work that most people born in the USA would not be prepared to take on.

I don't see that illegal immigrants are 'stealing' work from anyone. It is more truthful to recognise that they are being exploited by employers who are making more money because they can pay the illegal immigrants less and (in the UK) avoid paying national insurance contributions as well.

This isn't the immigrants fault, because (and this is what staggers me) for many the prospect of a hard manual job - without holidays, without insurance or healthcare, with no guarantee of ongoing employment or any certainty that you will actually get paid, with wages well below the legal minimum - is BETTER than the life they were leading in their country of birth.

That's the American dream and they just want a part of it.

Unfortunately, it can only be your dream if you are born in the USA.

As I said in my earlier post - I don't have any answers to this. I do see the point of your post as well - illegal immigrants should not be in your country - they have no legal right to be there.

I just think we should stop kidding ourselves that the illegal immigrants themselves are the bad guys and just accept that the developed world has created this problem by keeping 9/10ths of the worlds wealth for itself.

We created the problem - and we will have to manage it - without blaming the poor for wishing to better themselves.