[LeifW]

Originally Posted by cme

Here's mine.

Your car looks fantastic!

Leif W.

[positiveions]

i used to have an old edition of Road & Track titled: German Thunders. A distinction between 3 rivalries: Mercedes AMG Evolution II, BMW M3 evolution, and Audi S2.

I wish I can find it. The writer did a great write-up about all 3 cars and their individual characters.

[G80_Soom]

Originally Posted by LeifW

A shame they didn't have a Sport Evo version of the Benz for the comparison. That would've been interesting.



Leif W.

LOL, that looks like it was riced up by a street thug. Looks are subjective but the E30 M3 wipes the floor with the 190E in the looks department. It's considered legendary not just by BMW enthusiasts but by pretty much every auto journalist worth a damn.

[MrClean335i]

Originally Posted by Sumithb13

LOL, that looks like it was riced up by a street thug.

I always thought the Evo II was too much I rather get the Evo I

[Adriansideways]

Thank you BMW & Merc for making two cars so close and yet so different! You guys started the FUN!!!

[MrClean335i]

Originally Posted by eatrach73

i used to have an old edition of Road & Track titled: German Thunders. A distinction between 3 rivalries: Mercedes AMG Evolution II, BMW M3 evolution, and Audi S2.

I wish I can find it. The writer did a great write-up about all 3 cars and their individual characters.

[bimmerjph]

I literally watched 10 seconds and guessed which one he would pick. And I was right. He wasn't though. He is just trying to stir up controversy because he picked a mostly forgotten car over one of the most loved cars ever made.

[positiveions]

Thank you MrClean335
I looked for this magazine for the longest time. That's what got me hooked on the E30 m3.

[DrivenByE30]

Originally Posted by AllydNYC

Help me understand the M3's history... I thought the e30 M3 was made because in order to be in rallys the car needed to be a production car as opposed to what the host said "BMW only made the M3 because of the 190E". Maybe I'm getting this confused with the M1.

yes you got confused...

Mercedes was the first one in that "rally" race.

the 190E 2.3-16V was made in order to be in rallys...
And seeing the success,
BMW followed Merc with the e30 M3, which also needed to comply to the rally rule of having a production car

[stylinexpat]

I owned one of these before. It was an awesome car. Loved it and miss it.

[GrumpyBimmerFan]

great review!

When I got stationed in Germany I was trying to score couple of nice cars I remembered from childhood: M3 (well I knew that would be expensive), 190-2.3 16 or 2.5 16 (latter was a newer production year), and finally Cossworth Sierra or Fiesta... shark 535i/m was also on the list, as was E30 325. To my big surprise, these cars are very hard to come by in Germany, and if you do find one they will cost an arm and a leg. One guy was selling 190 2.5 16 for like 20k euro (I heard of some going for around 10k euro though), cossworth I can't even find in online adds, there is one 535m (1985) and guy wants 40k euro, 325 is about 5-7k euro (or you can buy a beat one and rebuild it). There is also mint 30k km M3 Evo 2 for sale, 80k euro.


I ended up buying 88 320i, and even that is not an easy find. Germans had cash for clunkers for couple of years, and a lot of cars went under the press... I'm sure many gems found their faith that way.

[evoiii90]

I had a Euro 190E 2.3-16 that I upgraded to a 2.5 with cams, Evo II brakes and EvoII wheels. It looked great...

The Euro 190E 2.3-16 version even in stock trim was way faster than the US car, not only because of the US engine was detuned with 167HP vs 185HP but also because the US car was heavier.

At one point I had the Benz + two E30 M3s, one of them a real Sport Evolution like cme posted here, only in red, which I still have here in the US. In fact the black car picture above and mine are the only two Sport Evo's in the US.

Both cars are different, both fun. Like the video say the build quality of the Benz is/was superior, over engineered. My Benz was way faster than my US E30 M3 that only had a chip and exhaust, but that might be a unfair comparison. I also always liked the brakes on the Benz better than the M3, specially the Benz EvoII brakes which were nothing more than upper class Benz brakes from the SL 500, 4 pot aluminum calipers.... MB was doing this since late 80s. It only took BMW 25 years to upgrade the whole brake system, first on the 135i...

Will I buy a Benz again ?, hmmm, not sure, US version were/are slow so that probably why the guy on the video bought a Euro version. Now I will probably a regular 2.5-16 and import it.

After a couple of years after I got the Sport Evo in 1999 I almost bought a EvoII Benz, these cars fetch top dollar nowadays, almost the same amount as an Sport Evo. I missed that boat back then...

Anyway, both cars are cool cars to have and to drive....

[mshab356]

Originally Posted by BMWPower06

Obvious bias towards the Mercedes was evident throughout the entire "review". Wasn't surprised at the end when he said he bought the 190E.

The E30 M3 was/is obviously the better car, there is a reason that to this day everyone and their mother remembers/desires the E30 M3 and not the 190E

True story

[Silvertige]

Originally Posted by kotik

great review!

When I got stationed in Germany I was trying to score couple of nice cars I remembered from childhood: M3 (well I knew that would be expensive), 190-2.3 16 or 2.5 16 (latter was a newer production year), and finally Cossworth Sierra or Fiesta... shark 535i/m was also on the list, as was E30 325. To my big surprise, these cars are very hard to come by in Germany, and if you do find one they will cost an arm and a leg. One guy was selling 190 2.5 16 for like 20k euro (I heard of some going for around 10k euro though), cossworth I can't even find in online adds, there is one 535m (1985) and guy wants 40k euro, 325 is about 5-7k euro (or you can buy a beat one and rebuild it). There is also mint 30k km M3 Evo 2 for sale, 80k euro.


I ended up buying 88 320i, and even that is not an easy find. Germans had cash for clunkers for couple of years, and a lot of cars went under the press... I'm sure many gems found their faith that way.

Yep, the German weather doesn't help at all which makes the older cars rare due to rust combined with stringent vehicle inspections.

[bmwaddict]

really nice car...

Originally Posted by cme

Here's mine.

another video

[Robin_NL]

In the mid 80's I watched any DTM race there was and I was hooked on the 190e 2.3/5 16 EVO whatever. Not so much the boxshaped E30 M3. Sorry.
The E30 M3 might be the better SPORTScar after all, I think the 190 is the BETTER car in all of its disciplines at the end of the day. I drove a few E30 M3's and they are fine but not supercarWOW, sorry. Secondhandprices are way too high overhere. Just get a E30 325i and get on with it....

THIS.Senna driving his W201. Case closed.

Cheers
Robin

[LeifW]

Originally Posted by MrClean335i

I always thought the Evo II was too much I rather get the Evo I

That does look better to me as well.

Leif

[Art__Vandelay]

My father owned a Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.5 16V (Evo I). That was a fantastic car, great to drive but luxury as well.

These pics were taken right before he sold it (so, it was already about 15 years old).

[dorifto88]

i wonder what other cars would be nice to import to america lol. awesome comparison though

[Tweeked SRT4]

Great video. I have friend with a 190E that's currently in the process of getting a 6.1 Hemi dropped in it. The 6.1 Hemi is going to be stroked to a 426 cu.in. Should be a really fun car when it's done.

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by BMWPower06

Obvious bias towards the Mercedes was evident throughout the entire "review". Wasn't surprised at the end when he said he bought the 190E.

The E30 M3 was/is obviously the better car, there is a reason that to this day everyone and their mother remembers/desires the E30 M3 and not the 190E

Camissa is probably the only US Auto Journalist with enough combined skill at the wheel and keyboard to get close to the Brits.

If you think he's biased toward Mercs, read the Automobile issue where he reviewed the 1M. He positively raves about the E30 M3 before comparing it to the 1M.

My signature quote is from that article.

I believe that he picked the Merc fairly based on it's easier to live with & cheaper to acquire qualities.

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by Croatian test driver

My father owned a Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.5 16V (Evo I). That was a fantastic car, great to drive but luxury as well.

These pics were taken right before he sold it (so, it was already about 15 years old).

Except for the rather unfortunate color, that's a lovely car.