[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Besides any turbo lag, assuming the turbo is actually spooled up already, the effect on power being put to the ground is significant depending on revs and gear:

18mph in 2nd gear at 1900RPM and 50% of max torque - 74bhp
30mph in 2nd gear at 3100RPM and 100% of max torque - 239bhp
18mph in 1st gear at 3400RPM and 100% of max torque - 262bhp

Torque is essentially power put to the ground at lower speeds until rpm’s multiply the effect into horsepower… Torque curves attached. 350 ft-lb is plenty to get moving at 1800 rpm…

[DailyDownshift]

Remove before race uploaded lets gooo

[ronin13013]

It took an AMG guy to give the car some love. Strange days.

Originally Posted by Daily Downshift

Remove before race uploaded lets gooo

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by FryCookOnVenus

Did you even read the article you linked to?

They called the car "pretty much fantastic."

They said, "your only problem will be getting someone to pry it from your hot, sweaty hands when your track time is over."

They conclude by saying "it wins its class."

How do you read this article and summarize their take as "nothing special?"

Sorry, that came off wrong - I meant no new or different info from what we have already covered.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Torque is essentially power put to the ground at lower speeds until rpm’s multiply the effect into horsepower… Torque curves attached. 350 ft-lb is plenty to get moving at 1800 rpm…

That curve isn’t very close to the BMW published S58 curve, it only shows 50% or so of torque at 1900RPM:

[DS_BMW]

Am I wrong or does Car wow show a trap speed of 122.8mph? If so that's pretty good.

[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by aerobod

That curve isn’t very close to the BMW published S58 curve, it only shows 50% or so of torque at 1900RPM:

Super interesting, To clarify, the chart you posted there is from BMW?

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by aerobod

That curve isn’t very close to the BMW published S58 curve, it only shows 50% or so of torque at 1900RPM:

I’m confused - neither of those curves represents the s58 application in the g87 m2. Look for the materials from BMW for
S58B30T0: 338 kW (453 HP)

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by CodeSlinger

Super interesting, To clarify, the chart you posted there is from BMW?

It seems to be out of one of their training manuals, I will see if I can find the original source, it is originally posted elsewhere in bimmerpost, too.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

I’m confused - neither of those curves represents the s58 application in the g87 m2. Look for the materials from BMW for
S58B30T0: 338 kW (453 HP)

It is representative of the S58 tuning vs the S55 tuning from BMW’s material. So likely much more accurate than a 3rd party calculated curve not based on anything in particular.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by No Boost

If the car isn't in boost, it's slow. Gotta rev it out. C/D is approximating 3.6-3.8 which happens to be about a full second slower than a Comp G8x. This whole detuning process as not to step on the toes of bigger siblings is complete horseshit.

Porsche Cayman enters the chat.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by aerobod

It is representative of the S58 tuning vs the S55 tuning from BMW’s material. So likely much more accurate than a 3rd party calculated curve not based on anything in particular.

But they have various applications of the same engine. Was this in the G87 section? And that’s a very reputable source I quoted, bmw notoriously underrepresents their power in certain instances.

[FryCookOnVenus]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Sorry, that came off wrong - I meant no new or different info from what we have already covered.

Ah, that makes sense. Sorry, I obviously misunderstood you.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by mwh2009

I hate to say it, but the reviews are really talking me out of the manual, and therefore maybe the M2.

I’d hoped that they would say the manual version was magical and worth giving up a little power. Sounds like the auto is the more fun as well.

If I’m going to get an auto, I might as well get the M3 xdrive and get more power and AWS and 4 doors.

I’m disappointed so far 😓

You’ll have a hard if not impossible time finding a small manual car as fun as this for the price. A 718 with the same level of power is going to be over $100k. I wouldn’t really consider buying the supra at the price it sells for.

What else is there with this Hp/Torque at this price that still has a mt?

F87 I guess, but if you want new this is about it, unless money is no object or you can live with less power.

[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by hoyasaxa

I am not sad I bought a 718 GTS 4.0. The new M2 is an ugly fat pig, inside and out with cheap-looking instruments (screen) and buttons.

There is a lot of rage in the comments on this post, especially directed at TH, because the people who have sunk cost (orders in) or are fanbois want the new car to be superlative. Sadly, it’s not. Anyone paying attention to BMW the last 4 to 5 years could’ve told you that. Maybe even longer. What started in the 3 and 5 series cars has trickled into the M2. It’s silly to get in a tizzy and pretend it doesn’t exist (cheap plastics, fat, lack of feel).

All the people who are new to the brand, badge hounds, or who can afford an M car for the first time furiously defending the new car and calling any criticism “F87 forum warrior,” an expression appearing repeatedly in these comments.

MEH.

I’m not sad I opted out of BMW. Good luck. Maybe one day when 95% of the lineup is electrified M division will come back with a throwback car to what made BMW great. As it stands, the reason the F87 was hailed is because people saw it as a throwback to the E46 M3. The new car is not that. Not by a country mile.


NB: the absolute meltdowns in the first few pages of comments from people unironically asking if the TH car was defective or detuned from low fuel (LOL) are outstanding and hilarious. It’s like some of you have never driven a car without automatic kickdown or even a naturally aspirated car. And given the target demographics of the new M2 I’m guessing that’s likely to be true.

Woah buddy, calm down. We're all happy that you have a car you like.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by hoyasaxa

I am not sad I bought a 718 GTS 4.0. The new M2 is an ugly fat pig, inside and out with cheap-looking instruments (screen) and buttons.

There is a lot of rage in the comments on this post, especially directed at TH, because the people who have sunk cost (orders in) or are fanbois want the new car to be superlative. Sadly, it’s not. Anyone paying attention to BMW the last 4 to 5 years could’ve told you that. Maybe even longer. What started in the 3 and 5 series cars has trickled into the M2. It’s silly to get in a tizzy and pretend it doesn’t exist (cheap plastics, fat, lack of feel).

All the people who are new to the brand, badge hounds, or who can afford an M car for the first time furiously defending the new car and calling any criticism “F87 forum warrior,” an expression appearing repeatedly in these comments.

MEH.

I’m not sad I opted out of BMW. Good luck. Maybe one day when 95% of the lineup is electrified M division will come back with a throwback car to what made BMW great. As it stands, the reason the F87 was hailed is because people saw it as a throwback to the E46 M3. The new car is not that. Not by a country mile.


NB: the absolute meltdowns in the first few pages of comments from people unironically asking if the TH car was defective or detuned from low fuel (LOL) are outstanding and hilarious. It’s like some of you have never driven a car without automatic kickdown or even a naturally aspirated car. And given the target demographics of the new M2 I’m guessing that’s likely to be true.

Dude, your car is almost twice as much $, assuming you got it new and optioned it properly. These folks making every level to the M brand is fine, all part of the program - and the OG M2 wasn’t even close to the dynamics of the E46… and yes, the new M2 is ugly and some of its proponents have the love-is-blind syndrome but let’s face it at this price point for a manual with this power options are very limited

[DO444]

Originally Posted by YKIGI

The brand went totally mainstream 15 years ago or more and hasn’t cared about anything other than selling badges while riding on the coattails of their original story ever since. Let me clue you in, these aren’t BMWs. They are consumer goods for the masses. Overpriced, heavy, plastic coated garbage.

Nah, they are apparently getting back into racing and while the designs are questionable the performance is not.

You’re oversimplifying things.
Are they making mistakes?
Definitely.

Overpriced plastic garbage?
lol.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

But they have various applications of the same engine. Was this in the G87 section? And that’s a very reputable source I quoted, bmw notoriously underrepresents their power in certain instances.

Their source is shown to be calculated, not based on dyno results with no info shown on how they calculated it. There are some difference in tuning across the S58 iterations, but BMW consistently quotes max torque not being reached from all versions until 2600RPM, no matter which version of the S58B30 that it is (T0 or otherwise).

Here is the original training material link: https://www.bimmerpost.com/goodiesfo...S58-Engine.pdf

[IronEgg]

Originally Posted by hoyasaxa

I am not sad I bought a 718 GTS 4.0. The new M2 is an ugly fat pig, inside and out with cheap-looking instruments (screen) and buttons.

There is a lot of rage in the comments on this post, especially directed at TH, because the people who have sunk cost (orders in) or are fanbois want the new car to be superlative. Sadly, it’s not. Anyone paying attention to BMW the last 4 to 5 years could’ve told you that. Maybe even longer. What started in the 3 and 5 series cars has trickled into the M2. It’s silly to get in a tizzy and pretend it doesn’t exist (cheap plastics, fat, lack of feel).

All the people who are new to the brand, badge hounds, or who can afford an M car for the first time furiously defending the new car and calling any criticism “F87 forum warrior,” an expression appearing repeatedly in these comments.

MEH.

I’m not sad I opted out of BMW. Good luck. Maybe one day when 95% of the lineup is electrified M division will come back with a throwback car to what made BMW great. As it stands, the reason the F87 was hailed is because people saw it as a throwback to the E46 M3. The new car is not that. Not by a country mile.


NB: the absolute meltdowns in the first few pages of comments from people unironically asking if the TH car was defective or detuned from low fuel (LOL) are outstanding and hilarious. It’s like some of you have never driven a car without automatic kickdown or even a naturally aspirated car. And given the target demographics of the new M2 I’m guessing that’s likely to be true.

BMW just suffered a major meltdown losing a customer like you 😉

[DO444]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

Big oof on people over paying for them. Then again, someone overpaid for my F87 too.

I wish I could tell you that you were right, but I’m not at all sure you are.

We may see nothing but price INCREASES for years. I don’t know that for a fact, but the notion that everyone is overpaying right now is not guaranteed.

[moodyhank82]

Originally Posted by hoyasaxa

I am not sad I bought a 718 GTS 4.0. The new M2 is an ugly fat pig, inside and out with cheap-looking instruments (screen) and buttons.

Who in their right mind will be cross-shopping a base M2 with a 718 GTS 4.0? This is like someone posting on the 718 forum saying "I don't regret buying my 296 GTB". If you can afford a GTS 4.0 and don't need the back seats, 100% of the time you buy the 718. What did you think the base M2 was going to be like to better a N/A flat 6 mid-engine Porsche?

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by Throttle House Thomas

We only had a short time with the auto, as is the nature of press events, but yes, because of the gearing the auto feels much more suited to the nature of the power band. The whole car felt more lively. Since the way they tuned the engine means that its all about high revs, the longer gearing in the manual meant you spent too much time outside of the powerband in normal driving.

A more capable car is a pro yes. HOWEVER, the thing that attracted me to the M2 in the first place is that it felt like a skunkworks car. Where they stuffed some fat ass suspension components into a 2 series and gave it a ton of power. It was a handful. If I wanted a better M2... i'd buy an M4.

All of this said, I want to drive this car on the track. Why the global launch was on road is beyond me....

BMW hasn’t built a skunkworks car since the 1M.