[kyriian]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

i really don't understand what is being argued in this thread anymore. i think both things have a purpose. alas in policitics and society everything is generalites and exteremism which is a means to tuirn us againist each other

Sigh, this thread is literally the Springfield tire fire

Occasionally some common sense throw some water on but just keeps burning.
We are all a little dumber for even being here now.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

Bang on with what you have said..

Meanwhile in the UK serious limitations are coming in next month.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...cars-evs-vote/

The controversial mandate compels car manufacturers to ensure that at least 22 per cent of their vehicles sold will be electric from Jan 1.

By 2030, 80 per cent of cars sold will need to be zero emission, even though the outright ban on petrol and diesel does not come in until 2035.

At last...some standing up to the nutter.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

well, Tesla is domestic and they pretty much own the market....

People need to realize that most EV owners have their own charging stations at home and seldom need to use charging stations.... only time I ever use them is on the occasional road trips...recently we took the Tesla on a road trip to Tahoe for Thanksgiving to visit family...over 1000 miles round trip....spent $123 in charging fees total and never stopped for more than 25 minutes and evry station had plenty of open spaces on a busy holiday week of travel....even spotted a cyber truck at one of them.

A 1,000 mile trip would have cost me $146 in my 17 year old E90 and 15 minutes total refueling time.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dfox

You just got blinders on and ignore the damage that oil has done and continues to do?

I love my ICE vehicles, and my EV, and I'm not going to pretend that either are saving the world, they're both bad in their own way. The big picture reality is that personal transportation is unsustainable for the human race. Unfortunately in the US our society is completely dependent upon it.

I'm curious. What type of transportation is sustainable?

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

A 1,000 mile trip would have cost me $146 in my 17 year old E90 and 15 minutes total refueling time.

not in california....average price along that route(us395) was about $6.00 a gal

unless you get like 40 mpg you might have a chance. My son has a e90 and it doesnt get close to that.


usually time up the charging spots for a lunch break so it was no biggie....If I was in a hurry we would have took one of our gas guzzlers.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by dfox

You just got blinders on and ignore the damage that oil has done and continues to do?

I love my ICE vehicles, and my EV, and I'm not going to pretend that either are saving the world, they're both bad in their own way. The big picture reality is that personal transportation is unsustainable for the human race. Unfortunately in the US our society is completely dependent upon it.

The point is the folks pushing the green agenda would have you believe that EV is going to save the planet when it is clear that zero tail pipe emissions is far different than zero carbon footprint. It's pretty clear to anyone paying attention and applying a little bit of common sense that EV's have significant challenges and aren't being bought because of those challenges and the realization that they aren't actually making things better, just swapping one problem for many others. The devil you know.....

[gonzo]

John "Buffalo Head" Kerry flew his private carbon spitter to yet another climate summit.

I quote:
"Time to get militant"

[M5Rick]

^^ That's about just under £5 a gallon in Cali there and here it' s 1.42 a litre here for the regular.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Public charging stations are like public laundromats. We have all had to use them at some point in our life but everyone had a big party when they got their own washer and drier and never had to go to a laundromats again.

Yes . Something like that , but without the explosions and fireballs !

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

GOD damn I can't wait till 2035. ITs going to be EPIC

[infinitekidM2C]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I've driven the previous model of this in Poland over normal roads and rough stuff, it's capable and far easier to service and repair than the modern complex ones which is what you want.

As a novelty drive for a couple days it'd be fun. But not everyday driving that thing around.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by infinitekidM2C

As a novelty drive for a couple days it'd be fun. But not everyday driving that thing around.

It drives okay and you won't have to worry about it being dinged or scraped by idiots when parked up as with a shiny new one.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

A 1,000 mile trip would have cost me $146 in my 17 year old E90 and 15 minutes total refueling time.

Very good point. It would have cost me about $150 in my 2018 F30 340i.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

GOD damn I can't wait till 2035. ITs going to be EPIC

I can, we'll be 12 years older by then.

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

The point is the folks pushing the green agenda would have you believe that EV is going to save the planet when it is clear that zero tail pipe emissions is far different than zero carbon footprint. It's pretty clear to anyone paying attention and applying a little bit of common sense that EV's have significant challenges and aren't being bought because of those challenges and the realization that they aren't actually making things better, just swapping one problem for many others. The devil you know.....

this is not reality though...it has been proven in study after study already that even after battery production is taken into account and all the other aspects that over time EV's are far better than ICE when it comes to CO2 levels. Any one that tells you otherwise is being paid by Exxon.




most nonbiased independent studies suggest EV's are much better for the environment

I don't really care, I have both types of cars and love them all and none of us will live long enough to see the last ICE vehicles on the road, but....

Climate change is real and if we can help slow it down we should...it is common sense, not a conspiracy

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

It's all good Brother. But you started off at 100% SOC with, yes I know, free solar juice. So I'm guessing you stopped at 200 miles and started paying for electricity? So 800 miles for a buck-23? Say I had a Camry Hybrid, at 1,000 miles and $4.759/gal regular, that trip is just $91.52.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it, it's a 8-second Carmy and not 3.2 sec M3P.

exactly


give me the 3 second car every day and twice on sundays over an 8 second Camry

[dfox]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Four years in earth science, specifically in stratigraphy (mining and oil exploration) so I think I'm on solid ground on what is environmentally damaging.

How many tons of overburden have to be removed to get the lithium ore, How many liters of water are required? Now lets move on to Cobalt and Copper?

Fun facts:
Currently, most lithium is extracted from hard rock mines or underground brine reservoirs, and much of the energy used to extract and process it comes from CO2-emitting fossil fuels. Particularly in hard rock mining, for every tonne of mined lithium, 15 tonnes of CO2 are emitted into the air.

Too many variables to truly determine the environmental impact of the entire live cycle of a ICE vs a EV but for me The ICE is the better long term play.

"long term play" does not exist when we're talking about a finite resource. ICE is a dead end road. Most people just don't care because we can keep using it until we're all dead and let our descendants find a better solution...

Oil isn't recyclable... it's destroyed the second you turn a key. Poof, millions of years of heat and pressure to turn organic material into energy. We release that into the air and think nothing of it...

EV minerals are not something that needs to be mined in perpetuity, at least not in the way that oil does. It gets pulled out of the ground and doesn't vanish into water and other gasses as you drive down the street, it remains there and is re-used for the life of the battery. Lithium, cobalt, copper, and the other minerals are recyclable to a very large extent, with a continually evolving recycling process.

Lithium mining is in its infancy. Historic demand was so low, archaic methods were fine. As demand rises and environmental challenges prevent digging into things like the huge source recently found in Nevada, new methods are going to emerge...

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

What is the 'Operational: Power supply and other emissions' on the Camry?

It has no power supply. What are the 'other emissions' a car makes other than direct emission when you have already accounted for Materials and Manufacturing emissions? Does anyone know???


EVs eat through tires given their weight, it that calculated for in this study? If every vehicle on the road is an EV and weighs 35% more than roads will wear out 35% faster right? The repeated weight is what breaks up the asphalt over time IIRC. Is that calculated?

I think an EV produces less emissions than an ICE car, but I don't think it is as dramatic as the above graph.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

GOD damn I can't wait till 2035. ITs going to be EPIC

An Epic failure $7.5 Billion For Electric Vehicle Chargers – Two Years Later NOT ONE Charger Has Been Installed
States and the charger industry blame the delays mostly on the labyrinth of new contracting and performance requirements they have to navigate to receive federal funds. While federal officials have authorized more than $2 billion of the funds to be sent to states, fewer than half of states have even started to take bids from contractors to build the chargers — let alone begin construction.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by dfox

"long term play" does not exist when we're talking about a finite resource.

Peak oil is a green fairly tale.

Originally Posted by dfox

Oil isn't recyclable...

Oil is the original renewable resource
Presently there is no financially viable recycling of EV batteries

Originally Posted by dfox

EV minerals are not something that needs to be mined in perpetuity, at least not in the way that oil does.

Man you really need to expand your sources.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Peek oil is a green fairly tale.


Oil is the original renewable resource

Presently there is no financially viable recycling of EV batteries


Man you really need to expand your sources.

With peek oil I am picturing someone going, "hey, is that barrel looking at me?"

[Car-Addicted]

Bias Rating: LEFT-CENTER
Quartz is owned by G/O Media Inc., a media company that runs Gizmodo, Deadspin, Jezebel, The Onion, The Root, and other sister websites. G/O was formed in early 2019 when Great Hill Partners, a private equity firm, purchased the websites from Univision. Advertising and subscription fees generate revenue.
When it comes to sourcing, they typically utilize credible sources such as c-span.org, New York Times, Huffington Post, and USA Today.

SoCal_NSX, better run quick the clown car is leaving the station.