[baron95]

Originally Posted by M2siast

It doesn’t have to be fully off. It’ll hop in MDM too.

I have experienced hop on MDM, but not as violent as with it fully off. Seems like MDM will cut the power and generates some mini hops.

With traction off, I really thought like the axles were going to depart the vehicle. Did not like that at all.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by myaghi

My car started to wheel hop when I was on ps4s and the weather started to drop under 10 degrees Celsius. After I switched to full winters it's not hopping anymore, no mather how long I drift. I think it has to do with the rigidity of the tire in cold weather

Interesting theory, but my tire temps were around 28C (83F) when I did the acceleration runs. Air temp was around 8C (47F) though, so not dismissing theory.

[Jett2835]

Originally Posted by CJ

I000 miles in, it’s hard to imagine more power than it has- I’m not interested in tuning it just yet but Dinan (& others ) has an easy little box that will get us 500 wheel hp for just under $600 so not worried about that.

I can understand the upset with the upgrade, why not just trade in (I know, $$$). You will likely see better financing by than, plus if you’re not sure which transmission you want , you can try the G87 in some form now and than know what you really want this summer for the next order.

In the same camp with the 20+ hp increase. Even if I could put my M2 to work and drive at full performance, I am not so sure that increase would make that significance difference of a driving experience. It's like if my CPU or even my iPhone had a 5% processing speed increase, it would be negligible in my use-case. Now, if it were a 50 HP bump, then yes I'd probably be shouting at the wind.

450HP is already nuts for daily, but I understand any gains are a nice to have for shoppers mid-gen, and will be the more desirable option.

[AZG87]

Originally Posted by baron95

Today I was doing some traction control off part throttle acceleration on perfectly smooth dry roads on my G87 (ZF8) and the wheel hop is quite violent and annoying.

Whoever is saying there is no wheel hop on the G87 is making stuff up.

I haven't gotten this much wheel hop since the days of my solid rear axle Mustang GT.

I literally came to BP to search for it - I was shocked by how bad it was.

What are people's experiences with wheel hop with Traction Control Fully Off?

I will say coming from an 18 s550 with the IRS that we had to do a bunch of suspension goodies from BMR and Steeda to kill wheel hop, the G87 doesn't come close to that. Granted the HAS kit was port installed but I still don't feel that would impact it enough if it was a real issue. But again this is relative to my previous vehicle as bad as that started out lol.

[keonigt]

Originally Posted by Jett2835

In the same camp with the 20+ hp increase. Even if I could put my M2 to work and drive at full performance, I am not so sure that increase would make that significance difference of a driving experience. It's like if my CPU or even my iPhone had a 5% processing speed increase, it would be negligible in my use-case. Now, if it were a 50 HP bump, then yes I'd probably be shouting at the wind.

450HP is already nuts for daily, but I understand any gains are a nice to have for shoppers mid-gen, and will be the more desirable option.

Exactly what I was thinking.

The bump up in hp wouldn’t be that noticeable. So tough to use the full potential in the car on the street so it would be tough to even use the little extra hp on the upcoming.

If I were to upgrade, it might be to an m3 in a few years though.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by AZG87

I will say coming from an 18 s550 with the IRS that we had to do a bunch of suspension goodies from BMR and Steeda to kill wheel hop, the G87 doesn't come close to that. Granted the HAS kit was port installed but I still don't feel that would impact it enough if it was a real issue. But again this is relative to my previous vehicle as bad as that started out lol.

I too have the port installed MP HAS. Not sure if that improves wheel hop or makes it worse, since I didn't try with stock suspension.

[keonigt]

Originally Posted by CJ

I000 miles in, it’s hard to imagine more power than it has- I’m not interested in tuning it just yet but Dinan (& others ) has an easy little box that will get us 500 wheel hp for just under $600 so not worried about that.

I can understand the upset with the upgrade, why not just trade in (I know, $$$). You will likely see better financing by than, plus if you’re not sure which transmission you want , you can try the G87 in some form now and than know what you really want this summer for the next order.

Do you have a link for those tuning options?

I wasn’t sure if the ecm needed to be unlocked before those tuning options.

[MineralGreyMetallic]

Disappointing to hear there is still wheel hop. I really hate that about my F87, and I had heard on YouTube they fixed this problem.

[Shadak]

Originally Posted by MineralGreyMetallic

Disappointing to hear there is still wheel hop. I really hate that about my F87, and I had heard on YouTube they fixed this problem.

I have stock adaptive suspension (eu) and didnt notice any wheel hop with either 4S or winters, mdm or off.

[myaghi]

As I said before, the only time I experienced wheel hop was with summer tires in cold weather. After I changed to full winters the wheel hop is gone.
My friend on his M4 has summer wheels and the outside temp is around 0 degrees celsius and the car is wheel hopping like crazy when in rwd and dsc off.
So the wheel hop appears in abnornal conditions, you don't have to worry about. The car is a pleasure to drive / drift

[MineralGreyMetallic]

I'm on summers all year, but it's reassuring to hear it's generally only an issue when the tires are cold.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by MineralGreyMetallic

I'm on summers all year, but it's reassuring to hear it's generally only an issue when the tires are cold.

When colder, the tyres don't conform to the surface well, the grip drops off more rapidly and there is more chance of split-mu traction (i.e. different levels of traction under each tyre) with road surfaces that are not warm clean and dry. All of these factors will contribute to rapid change in traction between the tyres, leading to wheel hop.

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by MineralGreyMetallic

I'm on summers all year, but it's reassuring to hear it's generally only an issue when the tires are cold.

Summer tires like heat, winter tires like cold. Same as it ever was......

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by aerobod

When colder, the tyres don't conform to the surface well, the grip drops off more rapidly and there is more chance of split-mu traction (i.e. different levels of traction under each tyre) with road surfaces that are not warm clean and dry. All of these factors will contribute to rapid change in traction between the tyres, leading to wheel hop.

And with tires out of spec due to temps yield less efficient braking etc etc. Im amazed on forums with 'enthusiasts' not seeing the 2nd and 3rd order effects of having the car on the wrong tire for the conditions.

[tylerdurdem]

I've only noticed wheel hop in the wet, it can be vicious.

[Tag]

BMW will still offer the manual gearbox as an option for the new M2 coupe, M3 saloon and M4 Coupe… at least for a bit.

Which means that in 2024, and for the next few years of this generation of cars, it’s possible to buy a powerful, rear-drive performance car with a proper stick shift. Happy days.

The confirmation comes off the back of BMW M’s best-ever sales year in 2023, in which the electric i4 M50 was once again its biggest selling model (it took that honour in 2022, as well).

The M2, M3 and M4 also performed well, and when asked by TopGear.com about the percentage of those cars sold with a manual gearbox, BMW said it was between 15 to 20 per cent for the M3 and M4, and even more for the M2.

“Definitely enough to continue to offer the manual gearbox,” BMW told TG. “We owe it to ourselves and of course to our fans all around the world.”

That being said, there’s not long left for the manual ‘box. As reported last year, BMW M’s future is automatic. The twin-clutch gearbox is dead, and the manual will last for as long as this generation of its M cars are alive. After that, M will revert to torque converters right up until single speed electric cars take over.

“The double clutch, from BMW M’s point of view these days, it’s gone,” BMW M’s development boss Dirk Hacker told us last year. “It’s now manual or automatic, and automatic electrified for the future.”

You’ve still got at least five or six years before this all happens, mind. In the meantime, ready yourselves for the return of the CS badge in 2024, too: BMW is prepping the M4 CS launch later this year. BMW promises it’ll bring “increased engine power and optimised weight”. The M3 CS got more power, bespoke suspension, bigger brakes and much carbon fibre. Expect much of the same for the M4 CS when it arrives...

TopGear: BMW will still offer manual gearboxes for the M2, M3 and M4… for a bit

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by aerobod

When colder, the tyres don't conform to the surface well, the grip drops off more rapidly and there is more chance of split-mu traction (i.e. different levels of traction under each tyre) with road surfaces that are not warm clean and dry. All of these factors will contribute to rapid change in traction between the tyres, leading to wheel hop.

It's also just a different kind of wheel hop.

The F87's rear was unstable, its wheel hop was less about "adverse conditions" and more about the suspension. You could absolutely hop it in the dry. The F87 had a reputation for biting unwary drivers because the rear would hop and break away.

The G87 is a lot more planted and tolerant of uneven pavement, just like its G8x siblings. There are significant advances in the suspension. It's not going to bite you like the F87 can, it's extremely stable and predictable.

Some people find the G cars boring because they can't bite you. And I get that. But I still find them plenty fun.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by DSTR

And with tires out of spec due to temps yield less efficient braking etc etc. Im amazed on forums with 'enthusiasts' not seeing the 2nd and 3rd order effects of having the car on the wrong tire for the conditions.

46F with properly warmed up tires is hardly out of spec for PS4S. These are road cars - where I live it can be 60F in the afternoon and 20F at night. It is not like I'd have a garage full of various rubber compound tires to change.

Point was that I have driven multiple performance cars with winter and summer tires in similar conditions, same roads, and doing similar acceleration.

With TC off the only cars of mine that had had consistent axle hop were a solid-rear-axle Mustang GT and this G87. It was really surprising to experience it at even moderate acceleration (I was not trying to light up the tires).

It is what it is - but not sure how people can claim that wheel hop is gone. On my car it certainly is very much there.

[Shadak]

Originally Posted by baron95

46F with properly warmed up tires is hardly out of spec for PS4S. These are road cars - where I live it can be 60F in the afternoon and 20F at night. It is not like I'd have a garage full of various rubber compound tires to change.

Point was that I have driven multiple performance cars with winter and summer tires in similar conditions, same roads, and doing similar acceleration.

With TC off the only cars of mine that had had consistent axle hop were a solid-rear-axle Mustang GT and this G87. It was really surprising to experience it at even moderate acceleration (I was not trying to light up the tires).

It is what it is - but not sure how people can claim that wheel hop is gone. On my car it certainly is very much there.

So what was the temp when you did experience the hop? car was designed in Germany (i would think), not sure what kinds of tests they do in what temps but at 60F (15C) i certainly didnt get any. At 20F, we already "have" to have winters on in most of central Europe. Not saying it cant happen, just saying at 20F i wouldnt really want 4S on a rwd car (at least in europe).

[micah_675]

Originally Posted by DSTR

Summer tires like heat, winter tires like cold. Same as it ever was......

Tale as old as time. True as it can be. Barely any grip. Slide into a ditch. Unexpectedly

[micah_675]

Originally Posted by DSTR

And with tires out of spec due to temps yield less efficient braking etc etc. Im amazed on forums with 'enthusiasts' not seeing the 2nd and 3rd order effects of having the car on the wrong tire for the conditions.

Whoa you are assuming people here are intelligent enough to know/understand. The amount of misinformation here on basic things is absolutely nuts. Most build threads start with, so I took my car to the shop.

[micah_675]

Originally Posted by baron95

46F with properly warmed up tires is hardly out of spec for PS4S. These are road cars - where I live it can be 60F in the afternoon and 20F at night. It is not like I'd have a garage full of various rubber compound tires to change.

Point was that I have driven multiple performance cars with winter and summer tires in similar conditions, same roads, and doing similar acceleration.

With TC off the only cars of mine that had had consistent axle hop were a solid-rear-axle Mustang GT and this G87. It was really surprising to experience it at even moderate acceleration (I was not trying to light up the tires).

It is what it is - but not sure how people can claim that wheel hop is gone. On my car it certainly is very much there.

So what temps did the tire sensors show when this was happening? What PSI were you running. Were you trying to launch it? Was this the auto or manual?

Why are you not giving relevant information about this and just saying it was the car, full stop. I haven't managed to have wheel hop at all. Now I've had the tires skip and bounce because of the cold, but that isn't wheel hop it's the fact that I don't have a second set of tires (yet) and it's been in the 20s here.

Pro-tip summers loose grip exponentially the colder it is under 50F.