[M3WC]

Originally Posted by JMcLellan

Maybe he was portrayed that way at first but after that 2nd, 3rd, 4th superbowl ring on his way to 7 in total I think that narrative probably faded.

2007 is when the dink-and-dunk(system qb) Tom Brady thing died. He slung the ball everywhere that season. 50 TD, 8 int, 4,806 yards, 117 pass rating.

[JMcLellan]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

And then there's this....

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/calls-m...e-investigated

Thoughts?

It is odd the flag was thrown so late but after hearing the explanation from Gene Steratore on the TV broadcast the call makes sense (assuming 100% certainty on Gene's interpretation of the rules). Contact was made with the receiver before the ball was thrown, but contact also continued while the ball was in the air making it pass interference.

Feels like people wanna stir up stuff and think this is another call favoring the Chiefs and Mahomes.

[TXSTYLE]

Originally Posted by JMcLellan

It is odd the flag was thrown so late but after hearing the explanation from Gene Steratore on the TV broadcast the call makes sense (assuming 100% certainty on Gene's interpretation of the rules). Contact was made with the receiver before the ball was thrown, but contact also continued while the ball was in the air making it pass interference.

Feels like people wanna stir up stuff and think this is another call favoring the Chiefs and Mahomes.

Yeah. Questionable calls will always be part of the game.

Anyway... Next week's games should be damn entertaining!

[M3WC]

Watching that game, I thought to myself neither Bills/Chiefs defenses seem like a match for Lamar and Ravens. But on the other hand Mahomes gives those Brady vibes, win with whatever teammates. 3.5 point spread isn't much. Ravens did handily beat the other two remaining teams(Lions and 49ers) during the season.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by mjr24

Somewhat….I mean Brady was never considered skill-wise one of the top quarterbacks. Now that being said, he was thrown into the best quarterback conversation in any given year for obvious reasons....

You are talking about Tom Brady, widely considered the greatest QB of all time? Edit: And even he's not the GOAT to some people, that's fine by me. No need to argue that point.

But, who beside you "never considered him as skill-wise one of the top quarterbacks"? Patriots have a losing record since he left and Tampa Bay won the first year he was there. So much for his team being the reason for his success.

[bagekko]

We'll Tampa won a playoff game this year where TB Tampa did not last year lol. TB isn't the GOAT just like LBJ isn't... Though I am not sure who is the QB GOAT but it definitely isn't TB.

This is prolly Lamar & Ravens best chance with KC & SF hurting and lookin vulnerable, or perhaps the Lions win the SB and they can burn down whats left of Detroit hahaha

Originally Posted by sygazelle

You are talking about Tom Brady, widely considered the greatest QB of all time? Who beside you "never considered him as skill-wise one of the top quarterbacks"? Patriots have a losing record since he left and Tampa Bay won the first year he was there. So much for his team being the reason for his success.

[M3WC]

Mind blow people still have Brady debates. More rings that can fit on one hand, most career passing yards by nearly 10,000 yards, most career passing TD's by 78. What else does one need to do?

[Clark_Kent]

Originally Posted by bagekko

We'll Tampa won a playoff game this year where TB Tampa did not last year lol. TB isn't the GOAT just like LBJ isn't... Though I am not sure who is the QB GOAT but it definitely isn't TB.

This is prolly Lamar & Ravens best chance with KC & SF hurting and lookin vulnerable, or perhaps the Lions win the SB and they can burn down whats left of Detroit hahaha

Yeah, Tom Brady is the greatest of all time. 10 Super Bowl appearances and 7 wins in the Free Agency Era (~1993 - Present). That's incredibly difficult to do as a starting quarterback. Not sure there's anything to debate on his greatness. And you're right, LBJ isn't the greatest of all time, it's Michael Jordan.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

Yeah, Tom Brady is the greatest of all time. 10 Super Bowl appearances and 7 wins in the Free Agency Era (~1993 - Present). That's incredibly difficult to do as a starting quarterback. Not sure there's anything to debate on his greatness. And you're right, LBJ isn't the greatest of all time, it's Michael Jordan.

Honestly if people's definition of goat is more than what Tom Brady has achieved, they won't ever see a goat play in their lifetime.

Oh and Lebron hasn't played defense since 2012.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Mind blow people still have Brady debates. More rings that can fit on one hand, most career passing yards by nearly 10,000 yards, most career passing TD's by 78. What else does one need to do?

Nothing as far as I'm concerned. The goal of every player and every team is to win the Super Bowl. To me, that is THE measure. I'm a 49er fan and I'd like to imagine that Montana is the GOAT, but I know its really Brady with incredible record and number of Super Bowl victories.

My comment that got all this started wasn't about if Brady is GOAT anyway. I was simply questioning mjr24's comment where he says …."I mean Brady was never considered skill-wise one of the top quarterbacks."

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

I didn't see that, but I did notice there were a ton of snowballs being tossed as players got close enough. Nothing brings out the degenerate in a human being like the combination of alcohol, cold weather, and football.

Some don't need even those combos and are just fine being a degen, period.

[UncleWede]

Texans couldn't put another score on the board and win me $110/220

I had to do some real mental gymnastics for any of the other game to turn up my numbers.

+$250 going into next weekend, where square prices/winnings double.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by JMcLellan

Bass missing that kick yesterday might have been one of the best things for Josh Allen and the bills organization since it's now easy just to blame the game on the missed kick. If Josh Allen had screwed up big time in that game the offseason would be incredibly tough for him. I agree with you that the media and lots of people are obsessed with how athletic he is and equate that athletic ability to being a great QB. There is so much more to it and it's also on the entire organization to come together and win games.

Yup, I see this all the time in hockey w the Leafs, shortsighted (unintelligent) ppl who don't think, refuse to look beyond the 'obvious' fail and instead focus on that: AHA!!! Bass missed the kick, and in hockey, blaming the goalie, when there were MANY things leading up to that 'key fail'.

Feel sorry for Buffalo, they put up a good fight vs the Chiefs but were Just. Not. Good. Enough. (yet again) Trading blow-for-blow, it was definitely a winnable game but they somehow lack the sports IQ, intestinal fortitude and killer drive of their counterparts. Tired of Mahomes already haha but can't hate the guy and his skills.

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

You are talking about Tom Brady, widely considered the greatest QB of all time? Edit: And even he's not the GOAT to some people, that's fine by me. No need to argue that point.

But, who beside you "never considered him as skill-wise one of the top quarterbacks"? Patriots have a losing record since he left and Tampa Bay won the first year he was there. So much for his team being the reason for his success.

Lots of people. He is thrown in there because he is a winner. However, have you ever heard people marvel at his arm? Uh, no. Ever heard people marvel at how he changed plays or audibles with a rolodex of remembering plays from 6-7 years earlier like Peyton or Rodgers? No.

He is a leader and a winner, no doubt. He is the greatest winner of all time. However, when it comes to greatest skilled QB of all time.....he isn't talked about in the same class as Montana, Favre, Rodgers, Manning, etc....he just isn't.

Drew Brees is another good example. Good player.....but hardly the best arm or placement or anything. Yeah, he has great stats....he played forever, like Brady did. I never hear anyone talking about Brees as being one of the best ever, though. He played in pass happy systems in an era where QB's can't be touched and the game is slanted towards offense.

I mean no shit Brady has the most touchdowns and etc....he played 23 damn years. Rodgers literally has only 2/3 of the attempts Brady has. Manning has 25% less attempts....if they all played the same amount, Brady wouldn't be first in any of those.

Also, I don't see what NE or Tampa's record matters. Brady went to a STACKED team in Tampa with more talent on either side of the ball than he ever had in NE. So Jordan Love is better than ARod because the Packers won more this year than Rodgers did last year? Um, OK.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by mjr24

Lots of people. He is thrown in there because he is a winner. However, have you ever heard people marvel at his arm? Uh, no. Ever heard people marvel at how he changed plays or audibles with a rolodex of remembering plays from 6-7 years earlier like Peyton or Rodgers? No.

He is a leader and a winner, no doubt. He is the greatest winner of all time. However, when it comes to greatest skilled QB of all time.....he isn't talked about in the same class as Montana, Favre, Rodgers, Manning, etc....he just isn't.

Drew Brees is another good example. Good player.....but hardly the best arm or placement or anything. Yeah, he has great stats....he played forever, like Brady did. I never hear anyone talking about Brees as being one of the best ever, though. He played in pass happy systems in an era where QB's can't be touched and the game is slanted towards offense.

I mean no shit Brady has the most touchdowns and etc....he played 23 damn years. Rodgers literally has only 2/3 of the attempts Brady has. Manning has 25% less attempts....if they all played the same amount, Brady wouldn't be first in any of those.

Also, I don't see what NE or Tampa's record matters. Brady went to a STACKED team in Tampa with more talent on either side of the ball than he ever had in NE. So Jordan Love is better than ARod because the Packers won more this year than Rodgers did last year? Um, OK.

you must not watch football much if you think people never said brady had elite arm talent or that he never audibled or switched plays at the line...

same with Drew Brees. He had elite arm talent up until the last couple years of his career.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

Nothing as far as I'm concerned. The goal of every player and every team is to win the Super Bowl. To me, that is THE measure. I'm a 49er fan and I'd like to imagine that Montana is the GOAT, but I know its really Brady with incredible record and number of Super Bowl victories.

My comment that got all this started wasn't about if Brady is GOAT anyway. I was simply questioning mjr24's comment where he says …."I mean Brady was never considered skill-wise one of the top quarterbacks."

The people that think Tom isnt the Goat are just haters, plain and simple.

He has done what no other QB has ever done as far as winning. He holds basically all passing records. And he continually did more with less as well. Or do people just forget that Bill seemed to play a game with Brady and chose random white guys off the street to be his #1 wr.

Not to mention, you can break Tom Brady's career in to 3, and he probably would have 3 HOF careers.

In his 20s, 96games 21,564yds 147tds 78ints, 1 2nd team All Pro, 3 superbowls

In his 30s, 141 games 40,018yds 309tds 74ints, 2 MVP, 3 1st Team All Pro, 1 2nd team All Pro, 2 OPOY, 2 Superbowls

In his 40s, 98games 27,632yds 193tds 60ints, 1 2nd team All Pro, 2 Superbowls

[Josh-PA]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

The people that think Tom isnt the Goat are just haters, plain and simple.

He has done what no other QB has ever done as far as winning. He holds basically all passing records. And he continually did more with less as well. Or do people just forget that Bill seemed to play a game with Brady and chose random white guys off the street to be his #1 wr.

Not to mention, you can break Tom Brady's career in to 3, and he probably would have 3 HOF careers.

In his 20s, 96games 21,564yds 147tds 78ints, 1 2nd team All Pro, 3 superbowls

In his 30s, 141 games 40,018yds 309tds 74ints, 2 MVP, 3 1st Team All Pro, 1 2nd team All Pro, 2 OPOY, 2 Superbowls

In his 40s, 98games 27,632yds 193tds 60ints, 1 2nd team All Pro, 2 Superbowls

I hate TB12, but he passes the eye test too. Besides his stats, he was just so surgical, and incredible at putting the ball in a perfect place for average receivers to make plays. I can't think of a game when he had last possession and didn't lead a perfect drive to win it (except of course SBLII, the best super bowl ever).

There were others that had a better arm, quicker feet, pinpoint accuracy, or some individual skill, but you have to give it to him for his ability to do it all.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by Josh-PA

I hate TB12, but he passes the eye test too. Besides his stats, he was just so surgical, and incredible at putting the ball in a perfect place for average receivers to make plays. I can't think of a game when he had last possession and didn't lead a perfect drive to win it (except of course SBLII, the best super bowl ever).

There were others that had a better arm, quicker feet, pinpoint accuracy, or some individual skill, but you have to give it to him for his ability to do it all.

I'm looking through superbowl history and I dont see this one, so I assume there was no superbowl that year.

[Clark_Kent]

And this is exactly why these takes are so bad. Tom Brady won, and did so consistently and in many cases convincingly. He's the best football player of all time, and it's not even close. The people saying he's not the greatest of all time are haters or they don't know shit about football. It's about winning football games, period. It's not about who can throw the farthest, or who can spin it with the most velocity, who is the fastest, or who puts on the best theater pre-snap. Greatness is inextricably tied to winning. And to be more specific, winning championships.

And let's be clear: People hate Tom Brady because he's a winner. People don't hate Dan Marino. No one hates Philip Rivers. People aren't going out of their way to slander Boomer Esiason. They hate Tom because he won so much. And he likely ripped the heart out of your favorite team many times over.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

And this is exactly why these takes are so bad. Tom Brady won, and did so consistently and in many cases convincingly. He's the best football player of all time, and it's not even close. The people saying he's not the greatest of all time are haters or they don't know shit about football. It's about winning football games, period. It's not about who can throw the farthest, or who can spin it with the most velocity, who is the fastest, or who puts on the best theater pre-snap. Greatness is inextricably tied to winning. And to be more specific, winning championships.

And let's be clear: People hate Tom Brady because he's a winner. People don't hate Dan Marino. No one hates Philip Rivers. People aren't going out of their way to slander Boomer Esiason. They hate Tom because he won so much. And he likely ripped the heart out of your favorite team many times over.

This. If TB was not our QB I would have hated him.

Same reason I give Peyton Manning shit. For winning.

[bagekko]

I have watched more TB games unwillingly than most. Stats don't mean squat. Very rarely did TB's play impress. Majority of his passes were 5yds to Welker, Edelman, etc. Always had top notch TEs. Always had incredible offensive lines with perhaps the best protection, he would just sit there with so much time and the WRs made him look good. Horrible out of the pocket. Ran like my grandma. Belichick is the majority of the reason TB is considered great. How could the Pats TB teams be so great with practically no running game every year... the system. Throw stats, win, or rings or whatever, none of that can dispute the above.

As far as skill & talent for GOAT QB, TB isn't even close to top 5.

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

And this is exactly why these takes are so bad. Tom Brady won, and did so consistently and in many cases convincingly. He's the best football player of all time, and it's not even close. The people saying he's not the greatest of all time are haters or they don't know shit about football. It's about winning football games, period. It's not about who can throw the farthest, or who can spin it with the most velocity, who is the fastest, or who puts on the best theater pre-snap. Greatness is inextricably tied to winning. And to be more specific, winning championships.

And let's be clear: People hate Tom Brady because he's a winner. People don't hate Dan Marino. No one hates Philip Rivers. People aren't going out of their way to slander Boomer Esiason. They hate Tom because he won so much. And he likely ripped the heart out of your favorite team many times over.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by bagekko

Very rarely did TB's play impress

You are delusional.

TB has more game winning drives than any other QB. Game winning drives are super impressive and fun to watch. literal edge of your seat action that you talk about at the office watercooler the next day.

Did this not impress you:


Every SB win for TB was, for the most part, close.

When TB had a HOF WR AKA Randy Moss they set records and had some of the most fun offensive football to watch for a few seasons. TB NEVER had true HOF WR talent unlike say Peyton who had two HOF WRs most of his career.