[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by Javi335

Kubica and Alonso. He take the place c'mon, it was you Kubica who screw up all, Alonso take the place! and that penalty??? robbed again, like to see if were LH on the situation ... but its me whinging ok.

uh....Spa 2008...rings a bell?

[inTgr8r]

^+1
Give it a rest Javi


The late drive through was def BS though

[E90SLAM]

Javi...calm down...Spain did won the World Cup and Nadal won the Wimbledon....

[1BMW4fun]

Is it me or SV is showing sign of stressing, that move he did at the end with Sutil is a bit extreme. IMO, his driving style is a little like how LH in 2007.

[KANdaddy]

Originally Posted by 1BMW4fun

Is it me or SV is showing sign of stressing, that move he did at the end with Sutil is a bit extreme. IMO, his driving style is a little like how LH in 2007.

Yup he is feeling the pressure. That move on Sutil was quite aggressive. Then again did you see the gap he put on them immediately after the pass, even with bits of his aero flying all over? Must have been super frustrating to be stuck behind Sutil. Oh well....he can only blame himself from trying to win the race on the first corner.

[UltimateBMW]

Just finished watching the race, I refuse to watch Fox sports for it.

I'd say Webber drove a great race. But I have 2 criticisms. First off, driving your own teammate off the road is ridiculous. His greed is getting the better of him, and being competitive is one thing. Sending him to the back of the grid is worse. (May have been hamilton's front left that punctured but tire to wing contact is often and half the time it ends up being fine. So its up in the air i'd say.) Secondly, "Not bad for the number 2 driver." And people are complaining that Hamilton is disrespectful and arrogant? He said that to his own race manager and team principal. On a public channel that got broadcast over TV. If I was associated with Red Bull in any way, I'd want nothing to do with that driver. And I bet some people there are regretting signing him so early on as well. He is clearly not a team player, regardless of any favoritism.

My opinion for Webber is only getting worse and worse. (Still, other than the start he drove a smooth race.)

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by 1BMW4fun

Is it me or SV is showing sign of stressing, that move he did at the end with Sutil is a bit extreme. IMO, his driving style is a little like how LH in 2007.

I disagree, I think he was just trying to get the job done due to his early puncture. I wouldn't associate stress in that situation with anything outside of this particular race. He needed to get up in standing to at least get his team and himself some points to stay competitive in the championship. His car is immensely faster.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by KANdaddy

Oh well....he can only blame himself from trying to win the race on the first corner.

He was actually on the defensive... starting from pole and all.

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Just finished watching the race, I refuse to watch Fox sports for it.

I'd say Webber drove a great race. But I have 2 criticisms. First off, driving your own teammate off the road is ridiculous. His greed is getting the better of him, and being competitive is one thing. Sending him to the back of the grid is worse. (May have been hamilton's front left that punctured but tire to wing contact is often and half the time it ends up being fine. So its up in the air i'd say.) Secondly, "Not bad for the number 2 driver." And people are complaining that Hamilton is disrespectful and arrogant? He said that to his own race manager and team principal. On a public channel that got broadcast over TV. If I was associated with Red Bull in any way, I'd want nothing to do with that driver. And I bet some people there are regretting signing him so early on as well. He is clearly not a team player, regardless of any favoritism.

My opinion for Webber is only getting worse and worse. (Still, other than the start he drove a smooth race.)

Here's the problem of RBR, Mark Webber, and SV now, its like a replay of McLaren garage back in 2007.....team mismanagement and apparent favor into one driver....force mark to give up his new wing for Vettel who lost it on Practice sessions....
its not like there's only one wing and the "better" driver got it first (last year Hamilton got earlier upgrades than Heikki)....they both got one but vettel broke his intentionally or not....that his problem....

that move just adding fuel into the two competitive drivers fire pit now....
i wouldn't be surprise to see one of them leave like Alonso left McLaren....

the radio transmission from Webber its more like payback to CH and engineers, and especially Marko the boss who favors into Vettel more....

[M_Six]

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

Here's the problem of RBR, Mark Webber, and SV now, its like a replay of McLaren garage back in 2007.....team mismanagement and apparent favor into one driver....force mark to give up his new wing for Vettel who lost it on Practice sessions....
its not like there's only one wing and the "better" driver got it first (last year Hamilton got earlier upgrades than Heikki)....they both got one but vettel broke his intentionally or not....that his problem....

that move just adding fuel into the two competitive drivers fire pit now....
i wouldn't be surprise to see one of them leave like Alonso left McLaren....

the radio transmission from Webber its more like payback to CH and engineers, and especially Marko the boss who favors into Vettel more....

Agreed. Teams with two talented drivers need to let the chips fall where they may and see how the standings shake out near the end of the season. If it's a case where one driver is a few points behind in second and the other is down in fourth or fifth, then play favorites. But until a clear leader emerges, treat them equally and let the best driver win.

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by M_Six

Agreed. Teams with two talented drivers need to let the chips fall where they may and see how the standings shake out near the end of the season. If it's a case where one driver is a few points behind in second and the other is down in fourth or fifth, then play favorites. But until a clear leader emerges, treat them equally and let the best driver win.

I had to say....Christian Horner is a pussy to tell Vettel that he had to use the old front wing because he broke his own...just because Marko is backing Vettel blindly....

TO hell with that...who is running the show and the TEAM PRINCIPAL??? Marko has big influence and financing the team but his power ends when it comes to running the team. CH and Adrian Newey might have to take it up to Marko and say...."look...this is how we run our team....if you don't like it...we walk away..."

[KANdaddy]

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

CH and Adrian Newey might have to take it up to Marko and say...."look...this is how we run our team....if you don't like it...we walk away..."

Ummm.....yea...that's gonna happen.

[marcel b]

I find it unbelievable what Webber did, pushing your teammate of the track like that, WTF! After the last crash I think it was agreed that they should give each other space!

[Javi335]

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

uh....Spa 2008...rings a bell?

Dont compare, i honestly think Alonso take the place and Kubica dont give him space, he just avoid the crash. Spa 2008 is a different story

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

Javi...calm down...Spain did won the World Cup and Nadal won the Wimbledon....

Yes thats true. For me Alonso can go to hell this year, im satisfied

[lucid]

Vettel had a lousy start and Webber took the racing line fair and square. Nobody pushed anyone off the track IMO. Vettel has himself to blame. He needs to stop acting and talking like a 15 year old every time he finds himself on the grass and get on with it.

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by Javi335

Dont compare, i honestly think Alonso take the place and Kubica dont give him space, he just avoid the crash. Spa 2008 is a different story



Yes thats true. For me Alonso can go to hell this year, im satisfied

Tell me, what are the differences? Let me tell you, Hamilton still got a penalty despite giving back his track position, Alonso tho, did not.

Hamilton can also said Kimi pushed him off the track, he is also avoiding an accident.

But I can also tell you the similarities, both drivers are going for a corner. Kimi and Robert both got a better line and stick to it. Hamilton and Alonso found themselves is a bad position of either crash into them or cut the corner. Both did the latter, both got ALL FOUR WHEELS off the track and gained a track position. and Both got a penalty from the FIA stewards.

Now I ask you, did Alonso cut the corner? Did he took an advantage after he cut the corner? Did he give the position back?

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by lucid

Vettel had a lousy start and Webber took the racing line fair and square. Nobody pushed anyone off the track IMO. Vettel has himself to blame. He needs to stop acting and talking like a 15 year old every time he finds himself on the grass and get on with it.

Agreed and if you look at footage right off the line, it was Vettle pushing Weber towards the wall.
I like Vettle, but he did this to himself.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

if you look at footage right off the line, it was Vettle pushing Weber towards the wall.

Yes. Vettel was aggressive there, clearly trying to block Weber once he realized he blew the start and that's just racing.

It does seem to me like Vettel is rather immature--taking himself too seriously. He is in a very fast car, and needs to keep that in mind and re-adjust his perspective rather than playing victim. Too much drama.

These guys are clearly all very talented drivers, but I don't think that there is actually that much between many of them. If Vettel and Sutil were to swap cars, what would happen for instance, etc.?

[marcel b]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

Agreed and if you look at footage right off the line, it was Vettle pushing Weber towards the wall.
I like Vettle, but he did this to himself.

one difference... Vettel tried to block but left enough space, Webber didn't. Also the complaining and negative talk about the team to the press is not professional.

[ianbiz]

MW is beginning to get on my nerves, he has too many double standards and cant take heat from other drivers. Suck it up dude, and get going.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by marcel b

one difference... Vettel tried to block but left enough space, Webber didn't.

Not really. When Vettel tried to block, the two cars pretty much lined up wheel to wheel. That's not a matter of one driver leaving room for another. Vettel couldn't have pressed more to the right even if he wanted to unless he literally wanted to crash into Webber.

When Vettel went off, he was already pretty much passed by Webber; the cars were not lined up. I can't recall the details perfectly, but it seemed like Webber's left rear was ahead or almost ahead of Vettel right front. AND they were going into another corner. In that situation, Webber does not have to back off. He will naturally drive to the apex. Vettel needed to realize he was passed and back off instead. If they were more less side by side, that would have been another story, but they weren't.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by lucid

Not really. When Vettel tried to block, the two cars pretty much lined up wheel to wheel. That's not a matter of one driver leaving room for another. Vettel couldn't have pressed more to the right even if he wanted to unless he literally wanted to crash into Webber.

When Vettel went off, he was already pretty much passed by Webber; the cars were not lined up. I can't recall the details perfectly, but it seemed like Webber's left rear was ahead or almost ahead of Vettel right front. AND they were going into another corner. In that situation, Webber does not have to back off. He will naturally drive to the apex. Vettel needed to realize he was passed and back off instead. If they were more less side by side, that would have been another story, but they weren't.

Applying your logic to Istanbul, Webber would have clearly been at fault. He was passed there, but didn't yeild.

The plain and simple of it is that Webber will take you to the wall whether you have the inside line or not, the lead or not. I view it as a very self righteous act, and am tiring of it. It's not racing anymore at that point.