[JCtx]

Originally Posted by escobar929

such BS, Alonzo is the biggest cry baby. this really pissed me off

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

Ferrari is a fucking BS!!! That's as bad as race fixing...

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

just 100K euro penalty for Ferrari...

Less and less people watch F1, and f***ing Ferrari pulls this crap. And about the 100K euro, they should also fine that pussy Alonso for suggesting it before Massa pulled quite a few seconds ahead of him. What an a$$hole.

F1 is supposed to be about the best drivers in the world winning (including passing teammates). You don't f***ing tell a driver to let a teammate pass (because he has more points), or the drivers with less points would never have a chance to win themselves. After SV and MW incident that wiped out both drivers, maybe just tell Massa not to run him off the track, but NEVER to let him pass. He should have responded: 'To make sure I interpret this correctly, are you giving me team orders to let him pass'? If a 'yes' came thru, I'd have pulled into the freaking pits and give up the race. Ferrari would have been pissed as hell, but that'd have sent a big message that you don't mess with professional drivers like that. I bet no team would have ever thought of that again. I also lost interest in the race after that f***ing comment. And yes, I'm pissed off too .

Finally, SV f***ed up the start big time; what the hell are you wasting time trying to block somebody a mile before the corner? This time it was his fault alone. Still has a lot to learn. Those stupid antics make you lose more than one potential position (2 on this race, and 23 on the last). He needs to practice his freaking starts.

[SonnyJack]

Originally Posted by escobar929

such BS, Alonzo is the biggest cry baby. this really pissed me off

race isnt over yet so hopefully Massa gets it back

Yes, Alonso has always had a little bit of "bitch" in him.

Side note: why the hell can't Vettel figure out his starts?

[escobar929]

Yea I couldnt believe that Vettel did the same thing again, he blocks the 2nd car but gives the 3rd car a complete pass, I dont know what he was thinking. I truly feel for Massa cause since he is not considered among the elite, he is still a great driver and its prob he's dream job so he didnt want to loose risking that. The look on his face at the end and his response to the questions said it all. Poor guy, at least he made it look as obvious as possible so every one knew Alonso didnt beat him.

The only thing that is gonna prevent team orders are guys like MS, LH or Vettel, try telling them to let someone by, those guys will rather crash than let someone buy.

[JCtx]

Just read the link above. I didn't think it could get any worse, then I read Ferrari said those weren't team orders, but 'driver decision'. I've never heard a more direct team order in my life too. They should at least have the freaking balls to admit it when it was obvious to 99.99999% of the fans. What a freaking disgrace. But what it's probably going to drive even more people off the sport is the insulting 'penalty'. Rather than a drive-thru penalty, next race ban, or something that'd have sent the signal to NEVER do that again, they get fined what they make on ONE freaking road car. If I was never going to buy a Ferrari (there're 10 times better cars for much less money), now even less. I also blame Massa. I'd have NEVER followed that order; you don't want to work for an a$$hole team like that. I'd have just pulled over. He wasn't going to win anyway, and who wants to stay after such an incident, but to each his own. Ambition seems to trump principles, and it's a damn shame. Later gang.

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by nmulax

I don't see the big issue. Ok, it doesn't seem "fair", but the attempt to ban team orders is a joke. It really is a team sport. (In this instance) Both drivers are Ferrari employees and like any job, you do what your boss asks of you.

The last thing anyone wants is a repeat of the Vettel/Webber accident.

But then the whole team order is killing the sport...don't tell me you are enjoying the race today. That's not how people remember Fernando's win today: oh what a great "pass" he did on Massa today....he is such a great driver...

all we remember was Rob Smedley told Massa "fernando's pace was faster than you, tell me you got the message." then the next thing...Massa skipped to third gear when he was out of turn 6....what a coincidence...

[nmulax]

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

But then the whole team order is killing the sport...don't tell me you are enjoying the race today. That's not how people remember Fernando's win today: oh what a great "pass" he did on Massa today....he is such a great driver...

all we remember was Rob Smedley told Massa "fernando's pace was faster than you, tell me you got the message." then the next thing...Massa skipped to third gear when he was out of turn 6....what a coincidence...

I agree that it doesn't make for the excitement of the Vettel/Webber crash or an entertaining battle for the fans; but if I was Stefano Domenicali or anyone else on the staff, the last thing I'd want is to lose the 1-2 finish due to contact during a pass.
The competition and racing is still there between the teams, you'd never see Massa move aside to let Hamilton or Vettel through; but even acting as independents (and competing for the Driver's Championship) the drivers also have to work together for the Constructor's Championship.

I guess my view is that sure it's not ideal, but if you really think team-orders will be eliminated completely, you're insane. If I'm RedBull I'd be furious that they could have had a 1-2 finish in Turkey had team-orders been allowed.

[Javi335]

Alonso is on better place for the drivers championship, his points advantage to Massa is not for team orders at this point. I know it sucks for sport, but dont forget the manufacturers are not there for the glory and the throphy's, they are for money. So, as a Ferrari boss what you would say? c'mon fight for the firts place, crash both and get 0 points! on these levels of competition, and FA far ahead on the table, take risk is not a big deal. Remember the Red Bull affair or McLaren telling to stop because the fuel ... its racing.

[escobar929]

I really dont wanna hear about the Vettel/Webber crash cause in the same very race LH and Button both showed how team mates are suppose to race, they went at it very hard thru several corners but respecting each others space and line.

Alonso has cried or complained about something in the last couple of races, its getting old. As good as Massa is, he's not one of those drivers thats impossible to pass, if Alonso was as good as he thinks, he should have at least kept trying after that initial effort

[revster]

Team orders is not racing.

It's just another form of race fixing and it's against the rules.

[Javi335]

Originally Posted by escobar929

I really dont wanna hear about the Vettel/Webber crash cause in the same very race LH and Button both showed how team mates are suppose to race, they went at it very hard thru several corners but respecting each others space and line.

Yeah, just like Massa was doin it on race. He a loser, a second driver. He should asume her position at once and do not disturb.

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by escobar929

I really dont wanna hear about the Vettel/Webber crash cause in the same very race LH and Button both showed how team mates are suppose to race, they went at it very hard thru several corners but respecting each others space and line.

Alonso has cried or complained about something in the last couple of races, its getting old. As good as Massa is, he's not one of those drivers thats impossible to pass, if Alonso was as good as he thinks, he should have at least kept trying after that initial effort

Well said.

[E90SLAM]

First of all, just gonna say the ban of team orders are stupid...
teams orders always exist...

but since its a rule now, not a good one indeed, but ferrari was too obvious to break the "rule"....only if they can do it in a more discrete way...

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by Javi335

Yeah, just like Massa was doin it on race. He a loser, a second driver. He should asume her position at once and do not disturb.

BS
Is that what you thought when LH beat him for the title?

[E90SLAM]

and Alonso was too whiny about FIA and punishments last couple races...and this time, even without trying to overtake...he said "this is ridiculous".....then ferrari simply tell massa to move over....

geez....what piss people off was not just a single "team order"...it was alonso without trying to overtake as a race driver....he just whine and ask his teammate to move out of his way because he was a two time world champ....if he was indeed faster....why not try to overtake???

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by escobar929

I really dont wanna hear about the Vettel/Webber crash cause in the same very race LH and Button both showed how team mates are suppose to race, they went at it very hard thru several corners but respecting each others space and line.

Exactly! And as I said before, it'd have been very different if he was told not to drive him off the road than to let the sissy pass.

And people saying it's like a regular job where you're supposed to do what you boss says, it's crap. Yeah, it's about the money, but who the hell brings the money? THE FANS. Keep doing that crap and there won't be any fans left, and therefore no money. And yes, it's A LOT BETTER for SV and MW to have crashed than having given a disgraced order like that. They should let the best driver win, and take whatever you get, instead of trying to fix things, and take all the excitement out of the fans.

[inTgr8r]

I agree, more races like this will really hurt fan support, especially in N.Amer.

[Zoli007]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

I agree, more races like this will really hurt fan support, especially in N.Amer.

Unfortunately probably very true.

[nmulax]

I don't really see how this incident will hurt fan support. And let's face it, it's not like Bernie and Formula One Management are concerned with the fans. If so, they'd bring back some of the European races instead of going to where the deep pockets (but no fans) are.

And the money brought in the the ticket sales pales in comparison to the funding sponsors provide. It's not done for the fans, it's done for the corporations slapping their logo on the side-pod.

[E90SLAM]

I don't think it'll hurt the sport that much, looked at Schumi passed Rubens back in their Ferrari days...its not like the fans will disappear the next day....

Its just another argument fans can go on until next week's Hungarian GP...

[UltimateBMW]

Lets change the topic a bit.

Mark Webber coming in 6th. Mclaren did a great job locking him out, and keeping Red Bull stagnant in the overall standing.

I'm still of the opinion that Webber is just an average driver in a superb car.

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Lets change the topic a bit.

Mark Webber coming in 6th. Mclaren did a great job locking him out, and keeping Red Bull stagnant in the overall standing.

I'm still of the opinion that Webber is just an average driver in a superb car.

Good strategy combined with Button's care of the option tires made him pass Webber on the pit stop rotation...perfect timing from the McLaren pitwall...

I just wish Vettel's start can be more mature...everytime he tried to defend his position...he ended losing so much that he earned from the qualifying...

[revster]

Controversy *increases* interest in the sport.

The FIA, FIFA, and NASCAR, to name a few, understand this perfectly well.