[KevM2]

Originally Posted by baron95

It's very simple really for piggybacks:

Racechip = has the most modern HW, with built-in Bluetooth, a team of 60 people, 12 engineers, does their own tuning on their own HW. Provides 2 year 10K engine warranty (no extra cost).

Carbahn = licenses the HW from Racechip, claims to do their own tuning, warranty is expensive and extra cost. Even the tune is extra cost.

Dahler = has one extra sensor, HW licensed from 3rd party (RC?), more expensive, seems to be a good box..

JB4 = ancient HW, 1970s DB9 connectors to even add Bluetooth, more complex installation, *BUT* to their credit they are the only ones monitoring CAN bus, offering ethanol (eXX) tunes, etc. If you are doing a lot of mods to run E they are the only game in town.

I personally, will not do any other mods than the piggyback - so I choose to support the most innovative plug and play company = Racechip. I'm glad they exist.

Specially on the G87, which has so much headroom due to the factory detuning, piggyback is a no brainer.

So for sure Dahler one has one extra sensor than the Racechip one? I would go with one that has an extra sensor if that’s true

[KevM2]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I wonder how the clutch copes with the additional torque, anyone’s got any experience or guesses?

When I asked this question from BMS about JB4 they answered that stock clutch will be fine with it… but it’s something I’m still questioning

[GT3M2]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

What do you mean to confirm the difference?
The higher the map, higher the horsepower.
It is the same function as any other piggyback.

Boost levels.

Can you confirm the boost differences between the maps since you guys did the testing?

-GT3M2

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by GT3M2

Boost levels.

Can you confirm the boost differences between the maps since you guys did the testing?

-GT3M2

Unfortunately, that is one of the information that they never disclosed.
Based on my customer whom have a lot of time on his hand, he datalogged it and told me that it is about .5 psi difference per map.
But, it was a test that he has done on his F85 X5M.
Not sure if it is the same as the G87 M2 application.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by KevM2

So for sure Dahler one has one extra sensor than the Racechip one? I would go with one that has an extra sensor if that’s true

It does have a fuel rail sensor (IIRC) that the Racechip does not. I don't know much about tuning to form an opinion as to if that is significant or not.

The Racechip does have an engine "warranty", though and costs a lot less.

The G87 is the most detuned S58 in existence. So I just want to bump it up a little bit, because why not, the head room is there. I think it needs the least intrusive way for doing that. I'm not looking to push it to the max where datalogging (JB4) and the like becomes important.

Just easy on, easy off, with a side warranty for what it's worth.

[KevM2]

Originally Posted by baron95

It does have a fuel rail sensor (IIRC) that the Racechip does not. I don't know much about tuning to form an opinion as to if that is significant or not.

The Racechip does have an engine "warranty", though and costs a lot less.

The G87 is the most detuned S58 in existence. So I just want to bump it up a little bit, because why not, the head room is there. I think it needs the least intrusive way for doing that. I'm not looking to push it to the max where datalogging (JB4) and the like becomes important.

Just easy on, easy off, with a side warranty for what it's worth.

I’m looking to do exactly the same thing and it’s going to be either Dahler or Racechip. Just waiting for someone to do it first to hear feedback

[baron95]

Originally Posted by KevM2

I’m looking to do exactly the same thing and it’s going to be either Dahler or Racechip. Just waiting for someone to do it first to hear feedback

Kies has installed the Dahler on the M2 and the Brits had the Racechip on the M2 and dyno. Both seem to work fine with US spec cars and pump fuel.

I plan to install Racechip right after break-in service. Have nothing against Dahler or Carbhan either. All three are about the same. But Racechip is the original, has more resources working on it and has the warranty included in the price. I want to reward that with my $$$.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by baron95

Kies has installed the Dahler on the M2 and the Brits had the Racechip on the M2 and dyno. Both seem to work fine with US spec cars and pump fuel.

I plan to install Racechip right after break-in service. Have nothing against Dahler or Carbhan either. All three are about the same. But Racechip is the original, has more resources working on it and has the warranty included in the price. I want to reward that with my $$$.

:thumbs-up:

I had it on my car, and it worked flawlessly

[KevM2]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

:thumbs-up:

I had it on my car, and it worked flawlessly

Any chance these types of piggybacks might throw off the A:F ratio resulting in either too lean or too rich of mixture? (If they don’t have a sensor or able to adjust A/F ratio). This is my only concern with piggybacks and the reason I like having the most number of sensors (I know JB4 would adjust AFR but i don’t like to go with that one for other reasons)

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by KevM2

Any chance these types of piggybacks might throw off the A:F ratio resulting in either too lean or too rich of mixture? (If they don’t have a sensor or able to adjust A/F ratio). This is my only concern with piggybacks and the reason I like having the most number of sensors (I know JB4 would adjust AFR but i don’t like to go with that one for other reasons)

To my understanding all these are doing is adding more turbo boost. All the normal engine adjustments are active, meaning the engine controllers should be monitoring/adjusting air and fuel mix in real time, just like it always does.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by KevM2

Any chance these types of piggybacks might throw off the A:F ratio resulting in either too lean or too rich of mixture? (If they don’t have a sensor or able to adjust A/F ratio). This is my only concern with piggybacks and the reason I like having the most number of sensors (I know JB4 would adjust AFR but i don’t like to go with that one for other reasons)

I have a very limited understanding of tuning, so take this with a grain of salt.

My understanding (from research I did) is that the piggy back tell the ECU that less boost is reaching the engine causing the ECU to schedule more boost (and likely more fuel as well). More boost = more air flow. More airflow causes the ECU to schedule more fuel.

So long as these things are done within the plausible parameters of the ECU, it all works and no CEL or lean condition happens.

So, I think it is pretty safe, specially with with the modest boost increases we are discussing (~+3PSI), and specially with the S58 in the M2 which is in its most detuned setting from the factory.

The same engine can make 543HP (550PS) on the CS/CSL models on pump 91 octane, exclusively by turbo boost increase in the BMW factory tuning. No HW changes at all.

Clearly it should be safe to take the M2 to those power levels on pump 93. Which is all Dahler, Racechip, Carrbhan are doing.

Yes, they have less control than a full tune. But the ECU tables in the S58 probably go to something like 10,000 RPM and 1.5 bar of boost.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by KevM2

Any chance these types of piggybacks might throw off the A:F ratio resulting in either too lean or too rich of mixture? (If they don’t have a sensor or able to adjust A/F ratio). This is my only concern with piggybacks and the reason I like having the most number of sensors (I know JB4 would adjust AFR but i don’t like to go with that one for other reasons)

The DME automatically adjusts your AFR

[rons e92]

The Racechip is installed. The car feels waaaay faster.

Interestingly enough this has caused a new issue, traction!

From a 50 roll in third if you go WOT it's just wheel spin. I've only gotten to drive it for about 50 miles since install, but damn it feels crazy.

Everything went together with no issue. We were able to hide the unit in the empty area near the brake master cylinder. You really could never tell it was installed without really looking for it.

I'll have to set up my draggy and get some times, but just from the butt dyno it feels crazy fast.

[ToneM2]

Originally Posted by rons e92

The Racechip is installed. The car feels waaaay faster.

Interestingly enough this has caused a new issue, traction!

From a 50 roll in third if you go WOT it's just wheel spin. I've only gotten to drive it for about 50 miles since install, but damn it feels crazy.

Everything went together with no issue. We were able to hide the unit in the empty area near the brake master cylinder. You really could never tell it was installed without really looking for it.

I'll have to set up my draggy and get some times, but just from the butt dyno it feels crazy fast.

I received mine earlier this week but haven’t installed it yet. Curious to hear how you managed to connect to the hard to reach lower connector, any tips or tricks? Eager to hear your draggy results, please do a before and after.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by ToneM2

I received mine earlier this week but haven’t installed it yet. Curious to hear how you managed to connect to the hard to reach lower connector, any tips or tricks? Eager to hear your draggy results, please do a before and after.

10mm nut on the electronic fuel pump, and lift it up gently to have your hand in there.
Recommended to work on it while the engine is luke warm or cold.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by rons e92

The Racechip is installed. The car feels waaaay faster.

Interestingly enough this has caused a new issue, traction!

From a 50 roll in third if you go WOT it's just wheel spin. I've only gotten to drive it for about 50 miles since install, but damn it feels crazy.

Everything went together with no issue. We were able to hide the unit in the empty area near the brake master cylinder. You really could never tell it was installed without really looking for it.

I'll have to set up my draggy and get some times, but just from the butt dyno it feels crazy fast.

That is great. Congrats. Did you wait for the break-in period before installing it?

As for traction, I like cars that have more power than traction, this way you always have to "drive them" not just mash the throttle.

Did you secure it in the brake fluid compartment with zip ties of two-sided tape? (I'm tempted to do the latter).

[baron95]

Originally Posted by ToneM2

I received mine earlier this week but haven’t installed it yet. Curious to hear how you managed to connect to the hard to reach lower connector, any tips or tricks? Eager to hear your draggy results, please do a before and after.

The Racechip install video is still the best.

Kies had a good filmed video, but they had their silly hot air intake, which prevented them from doing it the way Raceship recommends, so they ended up disconnecting the water pump - that is one more connection that can go wrong/break.

[rons e92]

Originally Posted by ToneM2

I received mine earlier this week but haven’t installed it yet. Curious to hear how you managed to connect to the hard to reach lower connector, any tips or tricks? Eager to hear your draggy results, please do a before and after.

The guy who works on my car had his tiny girlfriend come over an use her little hands. The sensor is really far down there, but she was able to get it unplugged.

Labor Day on Long Island is crazy. Wasn't able to do any draggy runs tonight, but I think I'm going to be happy when I finally do.

[rons e92]

Originally Posted by baron95

That is great. Congrats. Did you wait for the break-in period before installing it?

As for traction, I like cars that have more power than traction, this way you always have to "drive them" not just mash the throttle.

Did you secure it in the brake fluid compartment with zip ties of two-sided tape? (I'm tempted to do the latter).

Car has about 3500 miles on it now. We'll past break in.

Lots of zip ties and yes we were able to get it into that void up against the strut tower.

[ToneM2]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

10mm nut on the electronic fuel pump, and lift it up gently to have your hand in there.
Recommended to work on it while the engine is luke warm or cold.

Thanks for the advice.

[KevM2]

Originally Posted by rons e92

The guy who works on my car had his tiny girlfriend come over an use her little hands. The sensor is really far down there, but she was able to get it unplugged.

Labor Day on Long Island is crazy. Wasn't able to do any draggy runs tonight, but I think I'm going to be happy when I finally do.

I’m itching to get one of these piggybacks and have to make a decision soon as I’m coming up to my break in service and i would love to have that extra power that a car of this weight would do so well with… sounds like you’re very happy with the Racechip. Btw, is your car automatic or MT?

[rons e92]

Originally Posted by KevM2

I’m itching to get one of these piggybacks and have to make a decision soon as I’m coming up to my break in service and i would love to have that extra power that a car of this weight would do so well with… sounds like you’re very happy with the Racechip. Btw, is your car automatic or MT?

I'm happy. It's auto.