[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Nkc

Here's a good old fashioned business opportunity.

You buy some materials, produce something that the market wants, and sell it for more than it cost to produce it.

Simple and obvious but that is in fact how most millionaires in this country were made...

You can invest all you want, day trade all you want, buy rental properties all you want but in the end a moving business w goods or services that provides returns is basically the way to make serious money in almost all cases.

Here are some things to ponder about the suggestions so far-

Ask any one who has rental properties how many years it took them to make money on them and how much they invested in those properties vs net profits. The only exception to this is if they were lucky enough to hit a growing market at the right time.

Stocks - pretty much same as above... key is net profits, very few will ever outpace the standard market returns... the way to money in stocks is be an insider, be a market mover (Carl Icahn for one) or be in on an IPO as an employee... nearly everything else is BS

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

someone (half seriously) told me detroit, but there is no way i'm going for that shit.

As people mentioned on Detroit, it is as risky (or even riskier) as just buying a raw land speculating that some company will build something there.

[RandomHero]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Simple and obvious but that is in fact how most millionaires in this country were made...

You can invest all you want, day trade all you want, buy rental properties all you want but in the end a moving business w goods or services that provides returns is basically the way to make serious money in almost all cases.
Here are some things to ponder about the suggestions so far-
Ask any one who has rental properties how many years it took them to make money on them and how much they invested in those properties vs net profits. The only exception to this is if they were lucky enough to hit a growing market at the right time.
Stocks - pretty much same as above... key is net profits, very few will ever outpace the standard market returns... the way to money in stocks is be an insider, be a market mover (Carl Icahn for one) or be in on an IPO as an employee... nearly everything else is BS

I think I know what you mean, but your delivery was a bit off.

Real estate and investing (in the traditional sense) are tough fields to gain a competitive advantage in. Consequently, it can be very difficult to affect the risk:return ratio. The result is to either assume less risk and grow slower, or leverage a great deal of risk in hopes of yielding a big return.

What I think you were inferring is to provide a good/service at a competitive advantage. The basic ways are to offer something no one else can provide (patents), take an existing good/service and make it more desirable, or (easiest in my opinion) take an existing idea and make it more PROFITABLE.

As I’m sure most would agree, there are a lot of failed companies that provided an awful good/service. However, there are just as many companies that provided an amazing good/service, but implemented a poor business model.

[PurM3]

Bump the thread.
I'm interested in investing in real estate as well, but heard that maintaining the unit can be costly. The real estate in SoCal now looks really promising, so I think it can be profitable eventually.

[Anorax]

Peer-to-peer lending? Hundreds of small value loans, so if one (or dozens) go bust, you're not killing yourself.

Mine's been returning 6-8% over the last two years.

[strokeoluck]

I can share a few thoughts on rentals. I've had anywhere from 1-8 units (small time stuff) for the last 20 years. In my opinion the key elements are:

- Buying right (surprise!). I prefer to buy in the depths of a recession. This last recession, from 2008/2009 through 2011 or so, was a terrific opportunity to buy in most markets in the U.S.

- Low maintenance. The older I get, and the more money I make, the less I want to deal with sh*t. So for me personally, I usually buy places that need some work, because I don't want to pay retail for someone else's beautiful rental. I usually sink another 20% to 30% into improvements relative to the value of the property - and then have them fixed up by a handyman/contractor to a better-than-average status relative to the other rentals in the immediate area. This allows me to show a place that looks good to tenants compared to other options, I get the place rented with very few showings (usually only 1-2 showings per lease signed), and there is little maintenance. I do have a great handyman that takes care of all maintenance needs on my properties (NOT an employee).

- Pick your tenants carefully. I only rent to people who have solid income relative to the rent, are going to be no/low maintenance and will be good neighbors. I've had very few issues with tenants in 20 years, but I chalk that up to careful screening, and 45 years of experience dealing with people...so my gut instinct is fairly well honed.

- Only buy properties that are within a 30 minute drive of my house or my office. Some real estate investors search out deals in different markets, and more power to them, but I think they're few and far between (unless they're professionals). I drive by my properties once/month at least, and I go inside each of them every 4 months - ostensibly to change the smoke detector batteries and furnace filters. But really I'm going in to see how my properties are being treated by other people. Even though I rent to carefully screened folks, they don't all treat my properties like I would treat them. So it's good to keep a close eye on them. Pretty tough to do that if your properties are in a different state. Yeah, you can get a property manager, but I've heard some horror stories about bad PM's, and they take ~8-10% of your gross rent. That obviously cuts down on your return, which REALLY means you need to buy right in the first place.

I appreciate what you're trying to by figuring out a way to make some money on the side. Ironically I posted a message recently asking people to share their hobbies. I also noted that I wouldn't mind if I could find a new hobby that actually made money too. But I don't really want to be too committed to anything, like vending machines (route work), Laundromat (routine cleaning/maintenance), etc. Rentals have been good for me since I followed my rules above. If the properties were paid off they would average ~15% after all expenses and property taxes. Given that I leveraged each property (I usually put 30% down and then invest more $ to fix them up; when we're done we usually have about 50% equity) our return has been much better. But a great recession like the last one doesn't come along often enough to generate those returns consistently. :-) I'm actually getting a little bored with the rentals, as I've automated so much of it these days. Plus, our lovely Governor significantly raised the top tax rate so I'm losing about 50% of my gross rental income to federal, state and local taxes. Starting to look for some other options that might be more tax-friendly.

Hope this was helpful - best of luck to you.

[roastbeef]

thanks, everything helps. i enjoy hearing about other's experiences, advice, and opinions on real estate.
i have one rental at the moment and its about 50 miles from my house. it has been pretty hands-off, but i have had to replace some appliances in the last year (i've had it for two years now).
it has been pretty painless and i really enjoy it.
i've been looking at properties in washington state, which is quite a distance from socal. what i like about the seattle area (city of federal way, specifically), is that the real estate prices are significantly less and the rents seem to be decent. the only downside is the distance. i would likely have to hire a property management company and just take a hit on the rent. i think i could still make a decent amount each month while gaining a little appreciation.
i have been told there may be issues with a 1031 exchange from state to state real estate sales, but i haven't read anything official yet. for a low cost condo, i would be looking at monthly income over the long run as being the money maker rather than appreciation.
i'm just not 100% on board with an out of state residence rental yet.

[strokeoluck]

Only a California guy would think Seattle real estate is cheap. ;-)

If you're truly willing to go anywhere to earn a buck in rental real estate, then I'd strongly encourage you to consider areas like Indiana, Alabama, Missouri and outlying parts of Texas. I know guys in those areas that buy houses/apartment buildings dirt cheap - as in ~$25k/unit, then rent them out for $750 - $1,000/unit. Talk about a great return on investment.

[roastbeef]

what cities in texas?

i ended up scrapping the seattle idea, federal way is too close to tacoma and tacoma is a tweakerville shithole.

[roastbeef]

anyone know anything about the real estate market or rental property market in germany or denmark?

[mike the snake]

I'm getting a classic car that will appreciate over time for sure.

I'll be able to enjoy it while it appreciates as well!

try investing in online ventures, or any kind of selling on ebay., import from china, and sell online on ebay ane amazon, for good profit, you can be doing amzing with that kind of amount. Online selling have 1000% appriciation if you know the thing how to do

[nusevad]

Being in the financial/stock industry for some time, best investment tip i can give you guys is look and follow oil/energy companies. What we have here is a once in a decade opportunity. Companies like HAL, Chevron, and a few other energy companies are at all time lows. Also check out ETFs like USO.

When opec cuts production and Russia caves, oil will rebound and good money can and will be made. Remember its all about timing, im not saying to go crazy and buy everything now, but do your research and mark your spot, hold and wait. 2015 will be a very interesting and profitable year.

Originally Posted by mike the snake

I'm getting a classic car that will appreciate over time for sure.

I'll be able to enjoy it while it appreciates as well!

Thats why I bought my 71 240z. They are still relatively cheap for clean ones, prices are increasing year by year and clean ones are getting harder to find. Classic air cooled Porsches are also good investments. I feel that the e30 M3 has reached its peak and not great for an investment, still a great car to buy and enjoy if you have the coin but to make money its a squeeze unless you land a barn find.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by FifthStreetz

Being in the financial/stock industry for some time, best investment tip i can give you guys is look and follow oil/energy companies. What we have here is a once in a decade opportunity. Companies like HAL, Chevron, and a few other energy companies are at all time lows. Also check out ETFs like USO.

When opec cuts production and Russia caves, oil will rebound and good money can and will be made. Remember its all about timing, im not saying to go crazy and buy everything now, but do your research and mark your spot, hold and wait. 2015 will be a very interesting and profitable year.

interesting. what is your strategy on making a few bucks investing in oil?

[F1Venom]

I'm waiting for oil to enter an uptrend before my money gets invested in it, lol. It sure looks like a good bargain right now though.... The worst would be if oil remains range bound and relatively flat this year, but that's unlikely. Maybe we'll see /CL back in the 80s by summer.

[MrPrena]

80s by this summer? I wish.....
I would be happy with 67/barrel this summer.

[mike the snake]

I'm getting a Detomaso Pantera.

Originally Posted by FifthStreetz

Being in the financial/stock industry for some time, best investment tip i can give you guys is look and follow oil/energy companies. What we have here is a once in a decade opportunity. Companies like HAL, Chevron, and a few other energy companies are at all time lows. Also check out ETFs like USO.

When opec cuts production and Russia caves, oil will rebound and good money can and will be made. Remember its all about timing, im not saying to go crazy and buy everything now, but do your research and mark your spot, hold and wait. 2015 will be a very interesting and profitable year.



Thats why I bought my 71 240z. They are still relatively cheap for clean ones, prices are increasing year by year and clean ones are getting harder to find. Classic air cooled Porsches are also good investments. I feel that the e30 M3 has reached its peak and not great for an investment, still a great car to buy and enjoy if you have the coin but to make money its a squeeze unless you land a barn find.

[nusevad]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

interesting. what is your strategy on making a few bucks investing in oil?

Im going to buy low and hold, especially the companies that can survive if oil dips to 40s or stay at 50s. If the Saudis intention is to squeeze some players out of the game than the ones that survive are the ones that will recover and get stronger. Look at companies like Schlumberger, Halliburtonl, Occidental Petroleum (< nice dividend too 3.8%). They may not be as exciting or turn a quick profit but they are the ones that will most likly survive without taking too much damage. Buy and hold, after these event passes there wont be another opportunity to buy these companies at these low prices again for some time.
It took oil 6 months to fall from 110s to where its at now, its going to take twice as long if not more for it to rise once the world players start playing nice again. From the analysts and advisors I spoke to yesterday, general consensus is oil is continue to remain low or fall until end of half of this year (still anyones guess as theres numerous factors that go into play) and if there is a recovery it can take 2years maybe more for it to get back up to where it was.

Originally Posted by mike the snake

I'm getting a Detomaso Pantera.

Good choice, its an Italian exotic and its rare, ive heard their values are steadily increasing.

[UncleWede]

I know there is stiff competition from DDK, but an orange stand???

[954Stealth]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

I know there is stiff competition from DDK, but an orange stand???

How about as an investigator that searches for people's lost pants? There's money to be had there

[UncleWede]

If they can remember to pay you for finding them. You would have to hire an extra person to do late fees/recovery. Maybe if you don't give them back until after that hand you some cash form the pockets?

[954Stealth]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

If they can remember to pay you for finding them. You would have to hire an extra person to do late fees/recovery. Maybe if you don't give them back until after that hand you some cash form the pockets?

I'd hate to be the repo person