[hks786]

Originally Posted by Chunga

Fact.
Today in Gaza Abu Abir told all muslims to attack danish embassies in all muslims countries and kill all inside. Blow them up he said.
Then go to Denmark and kill all who make drawings and blow away all danish newspapers.
Well - he is a well known angry man. But no smoke without fire.
Here are a picture of the big meeting and the fun they had there.

I feel sorry for you and your people. Sorry to see this.

[Chunga]

Yes. You have good arguments HKS786. I like your writing.
Well. If you beleave in something. Dont be a pussy. you have style.
But some of your fellow beleavers.... tsk tsk.
But dont feel sorry. We dont. Noone ever got a dane to the ground. Not for 2000 years. And not for the next 2000.

[561design]

Originally Posted by hks786

A lot of people think Islam is so radical because we have such unique beliefs such as not drinking alcohol. However, you should look at crimes that are caused by alcohol such as murder, assualt, rape etc and then reconsider. Maybe it wasnt such a bad idea that God forbade it. I mean just because alcohol is there it doesnt mean we have to drink it. I dont see us all drinking bleach But yeah in all seriousness we believe it to be an evil of society. Just last week a young girl was raped not far from here after leaving a club. Disgusting!

Religion has always been used as moral guides. Most people follow it, some do not. The one thing I didn't agree with was how Islam sets such standards. To live is to have free will. As an individual you should have self disipline and control of your mind and body. There should be no one or thing that you blame for your own failures. In this case the scapegoat is alcohol. Well, many other people drink alcohol and do not commit crimes such as these. The primary variant to this is the individual.

Also, if you do not have free will to test an individual's moral compass. How do you know they're truly a man/woman of God? Many people can talk and go to service. But how many actually do as they say? For that matter maybe you shouldn't guage an individual's purity on age old documents. Maybe someone's purity should be guaged on their actions as an individual.

I say this because I know many "criminals" that have found God or were devout Christians/Muslims. At the same time I've found many great people with good hearts that are not religious at all.

[///McRae]

Originally Posted by ATG

Let the cartoons be published! God damnit! Europe has been babying muslims for 40 years now. They deserve no special status. If you can mock Jesus, you should be able to mock Mohammed. And name a pet Mohammed too.

+ 1

[hks786]

Originally Posted by 561design

Religion has always been used as moral guides. Most people follow it, some do not. The one thing I didn't agree with was how Islam sets such standards. To live is to have free will. As an individual you should have self disipline and control of your mind and body. There should be no one or thing that you blame for your own failures. In this case the scapegoat is alcohol. Well, many other people drink alcohol and do not commit crimes such as these. The primary variant to this is the individual.

Also, if you do not have free will to test an individual's moral compass. How do you know they're truly a man/woman of God? Many people can talk and go to service. But how many actually do as they say? For that matter maybe you shouldn't guage an individual's purity on age old documents. Maybe someone's purity should be guaged on their actions as an individual.

I say this because I know many "criminals" that have found God or were devout Christians/Muslims. At the same time I've found many great people with good hearts that are not religious at all.

I see you are actually quite a deep thinking person. I completely understand what you're saying. I'd like to start from where you left off. You mentioned that if you are truly a man/woman of God you should be able to stand the test of free will. I COMPLETELY agree with you, and so does Islam. You see Allah has forbidden us from drinking alcohol. However, he has given us free-will to test us and see if we will drink it even after we know we shouldnt.

Now to address the actual prohibition...

For Muslims we believe in a thing called submission. If Allah was to say dont touch alcohol we would be happy enough with that. However, if we look at alcohol itself we can see why God might not have wanted us to drink it.

- Our Holy Prophet (SAW) said that whatever intoxicates you in a large amount should be forbidden in a small amount.

- We are only human, we can drink till we're blue in the face without intending to get drunk. It can be an impulsive decision and have serious consequences. We can already be impulsive without alcohol, so why make ourselves even more impulsive? Most people who drink get drunk at least some point in their life, which means there has been a point or points in their life where not able to have full control of their actions.

- Alcohol is a drug. By nature our bodies arent used to alcohol, cigarettes or other drugs. We have to adapt our bodies to get used to them.

- You spoke of being in control of yourself. There are MILLIONS of alcoholics all over the world who:

a) waste money on alcohol
b) waste their health
c) do things they would not normally do, this could even be rape/murder/assault.
d) take up large amounts of resources to correct their problems. A lot of our police and other emergency services, hospitals have to deal with the consequences. Every year alcohol costs us BILLIONS in consequences.

I'm sure not all of them intended to become alcoholics yet fell down that trap.

Islam really isnt what people think it is to be. Every part of it is good for us. Islam teaches us to be pure with our bodies. Dont intoxicate it with drugs, alcohol etc. But we are told to look after ourselves. We are commanded to keep ourselves clean and keep a good appearance and even use perfumes/aftershaves to keep ourselves smelling good too.

[Chunga]

This is en deep contrast to what we se arround the world. These days almost every islam country is lead by a diktator. Every wrong move is answerd with a hanging or worth.
This is total different of what you are telling islam are standing for. All are total different.
Show me a country with islam as main religion and where there are peace. I cant find any. And where the people in the country are able to do what they want - and say what they want.
Why are they comming up here to our country - 1000 and 1000 of them. And they cant go home.
I dont get it.
What you are writing is realy utopia for islam. I just cant find it on the map.

[561design]

Originally Posted by Chunga

Show me a country with islam as main religion and where there are peace. I cant find any.

Malayasia, Morocco, UAE, Kuwait and Turkey? I don't know the details and there may be better examples. But I think they're reasonably more peaceful than other Muslim countries.

[Chunga]

forget Turkey. Kuwait is nice. Marocco yes. malayasia - i wouldent sleep in the open there - but ok peacefull.
Ok - i was just kind of angry tonight. And HKS786 are things looking so peacefull. I just cant se it right now where i am.

[561design]

Chunga- what's it like over there now? Are people acting differently around muslims? Are muslims acting differently around the populace?

[Chunga]

Well
Let me put it that way.
This are devided in 2.
For the first time in about 10 days things are peacefull. The muslims have written a letter to a leading newspaper and explained that the reason they done things like this is that police are hatefull. That might be correct. But most of the troubel is comming from fun. Most of the muslims who where arrested told it was fun to burn cars (over 300). But the one who startet it was political.
I am not blind. Situation was kind of sick. And here we come to nr. 2
Things in Denmark are so. We are wery rich people. But the political situation the last years have made the gab between the ones who have less and the once who have a lot BIG. That meens we have a group of people with no education and not much money. Of course its easy for them to throw their hate on strangers. So they do.
Muslims are not very popular these days.
But.
We also have a group of people who can se whats going on. And thats the mainpart of us.
To day i stopped at a young muslim man to help him out with his car. He look scared at me but i was cool. I have no problems with him - who ever he is. so we talked for 2 min and i called for help on my cell.
But situation was kind of strange. Course of the "revolution".
I think things is going to be ok.
Its just. The not educated people in Denmark will not forget this for a long time.
We also have the issue af a lot of burned down schools and who is going to pay. And who is going to pay for the cars burned out? Lot of the pople have no insurense - so they get kind of broke. Wich again make some hate on the crimminals.
As you can hear - confusing.
I also can se the dark people from the middle east are not looking happy. I try to chear them up with a smile and a small talk. But they are scared.
Of course they are.
Its a small amount of the islam youth that have done this. And they have made realy realy much trouble for the islam kids who are under education with christian kids.
I think they will have a hard time in school these days.
Again.
To bad.
The few make hell for the many.
I can only speak for the poeple i know. They can think and forgive and se whats behind all this.
But i can also se in the papers chatsides that lots of people are willing to kill right now.
But things will cool down. - i am sure.
I know the danes. They are not angry for a long time. Mb just until the next football game.
But there are still 2.5mill punds of destroyed things that have to be payed.

Sorry for my english - i hope you get it. Haha - it it was in Danish i could have written a book of this. Course its realy complicated. We have to meet the muslims in our country again - and make them know we are not out for revenge - well - most of us.

[Chunga]

And
Its coursed by an organisation who is called Hizb ut-Tahrir . I dont know what that is. But they demand Kalifat and Sharia in Denmark.
I dont know what the is either. But they are serius with it.
Mb they came to a wrong country.
I will try to find out what organisation that is and what Kalifat and Sharia are????
But it sure heatet up a lot of young people.

[hks786]

Originally Posted by Chunga

This is en deep contrast to what we se arround the world. These days almost every islam country is lead by a diktator. Every wrong move is answerd with a hanging or worth.
This is total different of what you are telling islam are standing for. All are total different.
Show me a country with islam as main religion and where there are peace. I cant find any. And where the people in the country are able to do what they want - and say what they want.
Why are they comming up here to our country - 1000 and 1000 of them. And they cant go home.
I dont get it.
What you are writing is realy utopia for islam. I just cant find it on the map.

I TOTALLY agree with you. But why should Islam be blamed because people dont follow it?

Show me a Christian country. Prophet Jesus (AS) didnt drink alcohol, dint eat pork, didnt commit adultery, didnt have sex outside marriage, didnt look at pornography, didnt use drugs, didnt assault people, didnt rape people, dint steal, didnt lie, etc. I could go on forever, but the point is there is not one Christian country in the world because all of these things happen everywhere in the world!

[Chunga]

If so. There are not manny who follows Islam in the world. But manny who claim they do and make a lot of dammage in his name.
I just seen pictures of more hangings in Iran - they hang there course they did not beleaveres. In cranes. Public. No wonder why we have so manny up here. Scared of there own country.
Religion here is kind of dead. But we still follow the demands. Otherwise it was caos.
And we have an open mind for strange religions.
But we are sometimes strange ourself. We like to have fun and do things easy. And noone shall come and tell us how to live or say: we come to your country - pleace dont do this - and this - and this anymore.
Thats not an option here. You can live here - but pleace dont demand us to change how we do it.
But anyway. Most muslims here are nice people. We live with them and its ok.
I have to freinds who are muslim - and you cant even tell. Thats the way it have to be. To much religion and demands of that account is ruin any relations ship.
And there we are then. About 25 - 30% have a way of living that under no circumstance can make room for other people or religion then their own. They come up here. Mostly they are on the run from their own country. And they keep their ways - then putting it in their own children and the children becomes strangers in a country that was suppose to be their own country.
So - now there is big problems.
Father WARNED you about the white boys. Go show them we are better, stronger - we can stick together.
Not good for integration.
What are we suppose to do with these people??

Prophet Jesus? I dont think he was such a good boy himself. I hear things about him. I think he would be grounded by Maria if she knew.

[hks786]

It's nice to hear you have Muslims friends despite Muslims only being 5% of Denmarks population. I totally agree with you that not many follow Islam properly in the world, but that's their fault; not Islam.

Of course you might hear things about Jesus (AS), but my point is that Christianity tells us that Jesus (AS) did not take part in ANY of those things I mentioned, but there is no country that copies his example. There is not a single Christian nation on the face of this earth. My point is that like there is no country that follows Islam, there is no country that follows Christianity (on a whole).

[Chunga]

The 5% is not spread over the country but all are in the big cities. Thats why.

I dont think the world would be a nice place (boring) if all christian countryes was going by the book.
But again. You se them standing with your book - killing and cutting and making demands for their people with the book in thier hands and claim thats true islam. And living is hell for the people who lives there.
How do you feel about that?

[ArmyBimmerDude]

^^^ What a peaceful religion. lol

[hks786]

Originally Posted by Chunga

The 5% is not spread over the country but all are in the big cities. Thats why.

I dont think the world would be a nice place (boring) if all christian countryes was going by the book.
But again. You se them standing with your book - killing and cutting and making demands for their people with the book in thier hands and claim thats true islam. And living is hell for the people who lives there.
How do you feel about that?

I understand that you dont want a boring world, but lets forget rules for a second. There are murders, rapes, assualts happening every day in "Christian" countries, just like terrorism happening in "Muslims countries". Yet noone points the fingers at that, but instead look down on "Muslims" and "Muslim countries".

Ask yourself bro, when a murder, rape or even assualt happens in a "Christian" country, is Christianity ever called into question? even if its carried out by a "Christian"?