[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

BMW needs to leverage their carbon fiber tech and produce a better looking, purpose built, competitive EV platform before 2021. In 5 years time Tesla would have a 2nd gen Model 3 and maybe a 2-series competitor. And there will probably others taking sales away.

If Tesla can produce a fully legal production car in five years that doesn't explode or have random widespread glitches, I'll eat a sock.

[Kiwi]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

BMW needs to leverage their carbon fiber tech and produce a better looking, purpose built, competitive EV platform before 2021. In 5 years time Tesla would have a 2nd gen Model 3 and maybe a 2-series competitor. And there will probably others taking sales away.

Tesla is American and it will stay that way but did you know their's more than America out there. Tesla hasn't produced a trouble free on time car yet and now it's going to double or triple it's problems.

BMW is using carbon fibre more. Just look at the new 7 series and the next new 5 series replacement will have more carbon. BMW started with the i3 & i8 as a test on wheels. Who knows how much carbon is being used in the new Z5.

[chris82]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Haha, not even going to try to compete huh? BMW just officially gave up.

"fuck it"

[FogCityM3]

Big surprise, the departure of execs for a Chinese startup then that ridiculous iNext announcement the day after their departure, further punctuated by Scott making repeated posts and getting into petty arguments that made little logical sense. Pretty much all red flags that the i division was a big mistake and the core enthusiasts lost out big time with lackluster product for the past 5 years (M2 being the sole exception).

[zer0cool]

Model S quality is fairly good in its class and appears to be improving over the model years. I don't think the widespread issues found in the Model X will be repeated in the Model 3 since the 3 will be a simple 4 door sedan, unlike the X, which is overly complicated.

Personally, I think the X is kind of a failure... I would rather buy a X5M (if going for sport) or Audi Q7 (if going to tech) instead of a Model X, tho the wife disagrees... I recently sat in a Model X and I was actually quite impressed by the car. Seats were as comfortable as a Lexus and interior quality is very high (I would say it's on par with other SUVs in the segment, in fact definitely exceeding most X5's).

Anyways, one issue with BMW is that the 3 series is not really a class leading car any more... It's a lot more softer than before and interior quality and tech are both poor compared to its competitors... Like if you have poor interior and tech, then you better lead in driving dynamics... but BMW is really going the softer route... Anyways, if I were choosing a car in the segment today, I would buy the new A4 instead of a 3 series. We are on our 2nd 3 series in the past 4 years and the lease ends in 2018. We have a Model 3 on order... Assuming it does come out in time and assuming no widespread quality issues, we are moving to Model 3, which looks better and has vastly superior technology! It ll likely drive better as well.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

Tesla is going to botch the model 3 so bad and so publicly it will be entertaining. And when people realize that the model 3 is a bate and switch the same will happen to the 1000 dollar "pinky-swears" that they sold. That said, bmws failure with their own electric division is seeming more apparent

I don't think so. It is just a matter of perception. It is all about perception...

I personally will never buy an electric car. Don't want to go in my personal opinion and the BS people are buying, the vehicle is far from "green", "healthy", "reliable' in many aspects including for long trips, and no is not that energy efficient (dust in peoples eyes), lack of freedom in picking what "updates" you want on your car, and a long list... There are some serious issues that needs to be fixed until I will consider a such vehicle.

I still don't get what people see in that small electric train vehicle with an ipad ugly glued on the middle. But, each with its own, let them have it.

Tesla will NEVER reach BMW history, everybody can install four electric motors on a box, but not everybody can build a powerful efficient internal combustion engine. There is no advancement, nor technology in such car, just a small train with a new windows 10 in it (yep, the forced updates are included too). If that is "superior technology" for some, then, I will leave it there, there is no sense in arguing...
Elon Musk is not a genius nor a great engineer. That car could be well built 100 years ago; the evolution of the battery technology make it happen.

I do admire the new cars that run on salt water for example, or the hydrogen, but that is a different topic.

I am just waiting to see the masses buying the new 4 wheels iphone, so I can take a breath with my long range, thrilling, emotional, classic engine vehicle.
I will feel better and more unique, and maybe BMW will focus again on building proper driver oriented machines.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

So what you're basically saying is BMW has no concern about Tesla, because the Model 3 won't sell. We'll see how BMW's gross market ignorance works out for their bottom line.

Idk if it is market ignorance, i believe bmw did their research and is banking on people not being ok with having hours charge times, limited superchargers, and needing to basically own a home in the suburbs to make this car a reality. Many of the people that want these live in or near a city, and they dont have a way to install or access a charger.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

Idk if it is market ignorance, i believe bmw did their research and is banking on people not being ok with having hours charge times, limited superchargers, and needing to basically own a home in the suburbs to make this car a reality. Many of the people that want these live in or near a city, and they dont have a way to install or access a charger.

Not having charger access at home or work is definitely in BMW's favor, but as a business you still wouldn't ignore the remaining potential market of millions that do? And others think BMW has absolutely nothing to be concerned about because Tesla will definitely fail to deliver and go out of business? Both of these arguments are not compelling reasons to dawdle, given the production time frames?
Hours charge time, yes you'd have to plug in overnight occasionally.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Not having charger access at home or work is definitely in BMW's favor, but as a business you still wouldn't ignore the remaining potential market of millions that do? And others think BMW has absolutely nothing to be concerned about because Tesla will definitely fail to deliver and go out of business? Both of these arguments are not compelling reasons to dawdle, given the production time frames?
Hours charge time, yes you'd have to plug in overnight occasionally.

Millions vs hundreds of millions for gas powered cars. Hmmmm

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Millions vs hundreds of millions for gas powered cars. Hmmmm

Hmmmm, that makes no sense.

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by Tracus

I don't think so. It is just a matter of perception. It is all about perception...

I personally will never buy an electric car. Don't want to go in my personal opinion and the BS people are buying, the vehicle is far from "green", "healthy", "reliable' in many aspects including for long trips, and no is not that energy efficient (dust in peoples eyes), lack of freedom in picking what "updates" you want on your car, and a long list... There are some serious issues that needs to be fixed until I will consider a such vehicle.

I still don't get what people see in that small electric train vehicle with an ipad ugly glued on the middle. But, each with its own, let them have it.

Tesla will NEVER reach BMW history, everybody can install four electric motors on a box, but not everybody can build a powerful efficient internal combustion engine. There is no advancement, nor technology in such car, just a small train with a new windows 10 in it (yep, the forced updates are included too). If that is "superior technology" for some, then, I will leave it there, there is no sense in arguing...
Elon Musk is not a genius nor a great engineer. That car could be well built 100 years ago; the evolution of the battery technology make it happen.

I do admire the new cars that run on salt water for example, or the hydrogen, but that is a different topic.

I am just waiting to see the masses buying the new 4 wheels iphone, so I can take a breath with my long range, thrilling, emotional, classic engine vehicle.
I will feel better and more unique, and maybe BMW will focus again on building proper driver oriented machines.

K

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

Idk if it is market ignorance, i believe bmw did their research and is banking on people not being ok with having hours charge times, limited superchargers, and needing to basically own a home in the suburbs to make this car a reality. Many of the people that want these live in or near a city, and they dont have a way to install or access a charger.

These are problems if it's your only car, you have a nutty commute, or if you don't own a home. A lot of folks aren't subject to those concerns.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

These are problems if it's your only car, you have a nutty commute, or if you don't own a home. A lot of folks aren't subject to those concerns.

There are also alot of folks that are. And many of them are the millennials that are crazy about tech and crazy enough to not care about all the disadvantages that a tesla comes with

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Not having charger access at home or work is definitely in BMW's favor, but as a business you still wouldn't ignore the remaining potential market of millions that do? And others think BMW has absolutely nothing to be concerned about because Tesla will definitely fail to deliver and go out of business? Both of these arguments are not compelling reasons to dawdle, given the production time frames?
Hours charge time, yes you'd have to plug in overnight occasionally.

Hours charge time comment was made bc if you run out of charge, and are not home, the hours its takes to charge is a big deal, ie get towed, ie ask a stranger for an extension cable

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

Hours charge time comment was made bc if you run out of charge, and are not home, the hours its takes to charge is a big deal, ie get towed, ie ask a stranger for an extension cable

Why would that ever happen unless you were a moron though?

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Why would that ever happen unless you were a moron though?

Everyone makes mistakes. Do you know anyone who ever ran out of gas? Its the same thing

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

Everyone makes mistakes. Do you know anyone who ever ran out of gas? Its the same thing

Yes, but that rarely happens, so why then the focus? What is the point you were trying to make?

[vladberca]

Tesla is NA market oriented. They don't have a global strategy yet.
BMW is focusing on all the markets. They lost quite a lot this year in NA, but overall are on plus.
The only real rivals for BMW are Mercedes and Audi.
The others doesn't count.
We have to look globally, not only to a specific market.

[Sassicaia]

Tesla model 3 won't be out for at least another two years IMO. You heard it here first.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Yes, but that rarely happens, so why then the focus? What is the point you were trying to make?

Because the fear of getting stranded, and the fear of buying a car that is not good for roadtrips, will prevent some potential buyers. Or being restricted in driving freedom will prevent repeat buyers. Especially when people realize the car will not have supercharging standard and will only have 200ish miles range for the standard model. This is what bmw is banking on in not following the ants down the electric car anthole, the many reasons to not buy an electric car will prevent the model 3 (or any electric car) from being a mass market car

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Hmmmm, that makes no sense.

There are maybe a million potential EV customers in the US. Total EV sales are 0.4% of car sales. The other 99.6% of car sales are gas powered. Meaning 200 mm potential customers. I don't see bmw leaving anything on the table. They've put a huge portion of research and marketinget budiet towards a statistically insignificant portion of potential sales. Bad management. Tesla is a tiny niche company. It can go after the niche market. If bmw wanted that market, they shold have just bought tesla, rebranded it, stuck some bmw wheels, bodies, roundels, interiors on it, and called it a day. But even that's worthless because the value of tesla is super high from speculators.

[Meeni]

They were selling 2014 MY at firesale at the end of last year (so MY 2016). So I am not so surprised that they have to stop the bleeding.

At the pricepoint they were selling, I actually considered one with the range extender. It ticks a lot of boxes and makes sense in general, it drives fine for what it is. But really, even with the deep discount (it was 1/2 of msrp without event starting to discuss), it is too ugly, and the "futuristic" interior is a real turn off, and it's not that comfy either. If it had looked like a normal car, or better, if they'd made a eletric mx5, I'd already have one.