[Captain Starbucks]

You guys are great! Thank you for all of the advice and experience. Many good choices.

For the record, it's only partially about saving money. Yes, my boat just popped up for sale but also, I'm 49 years old and should be thrown in jail every single day I drive my M3. I have a talk with myself every day before I get in the car about how I'm not going to drive the car hard. But then it just happens. Triple digits every single day. GTI sounds fun and that might be the ticket, but I know I'd tune it and then I'd be back to where I started...almost. Bolt EV is great. I've driven them before and they're a hoot. I was stop light racing a guy with a tricked out old school Nova. He was absolutely pissed I was wasting him every green light. It was absolutely hilarious. For those of you who don't know the Bolt EV, it's just as quick as a GTI but the Bolt runs out of steam up top which is what I need. The M doesn't shine until you get close to triple digits and then it really begs for more which I'm happy to oblige every chance I get.

Anyway, kids are 3 and 6. I have a diesel Ford F-250, I also have a 1968 Impala convertible. I haul the kids in my cars less than 1% of the time. Usually take the wife's MDX, or we're camping/boating so we take my crew cab F250 (6MT of course). So of my fleet of 3, I own 3 V8's. Love them all but don't mind saving some money to afford more boat parts. I am a car guy, but in reality, I'm a die hard fisherman and boater first and foremost.

I really just need something temporary that I won't lose my ass on until my Cybertruck Tri is built. I think it'll be cheaper long term to just feed the M a bunch of fuel because it'll probably still be worth $30k in 2 years when the truck is ready. But I'll be in jail or dead by then if I keep the M.

[Vivek.]

Since you have an F250 and MDX, my previous suggestion (or support) of the 4Runner could be a little redundant.

My boss has a Bolt and two track cars (M2C, integra), he seems to like the Bolt but mostly for practical reasons. I've seen a few 6MT 328's with low miles (50-80k) listed around $10k, which could be a good option as well.

[br2wdc]

Excellent update and you have provided additional clarity, which helps in providing suggested cars/options.

It's frightening how accurate your description/talk with yourself in driving your M3 matches mine 100%

I am older then you and should be wiser, but for lack of a better analogy, the M3 simply takes demonic possession of me and I become a different person

And I would do the same thing thing you would with GTI, and in fact when I had my GLI, I started looking into better suspension parts/bigger turbo's to essentially get it closer to an, ummm, M3

So now I am thinking GenXer may have a better suggestion with the 2013 Jetta Hybrid or I would suggest a 2011-15 VW Jetta TDI; very tough to mod a hybrid or a diesel yet you can get close to Prius MPG's and still have a car that doesn't bore you to sleep. One caveat is I don't believe the Jetta Hybrid had a 6MT option (may have been a 7-speed Dual clutch), while the TDI most certainly did have 6MT.

Originally Posted by Captain Starbucks

You guys are great! Thank you for all of the advice and experience. Many good choices.

For the record, it's only partially about saving money. Yes, my boat just popped up for sale but also, I'm 49 years old and should be thrown in jail every single day I drive my M3. I have a talk with myself every day before I get in the car about how I'm not going to drive the car hard. But then it just happens. Triple digits every single day. GTI sounds fun and that might be the ticket, but I know I'd tune it and then I'd be back to where I started...almost. Bolt EV is great. I've driven them before and they're a hoot. I was stop light racing a guy with a tricked out old school Nova. He was absolutely pissed I was wasting him every green light. It was

absolutely hilarious. For those of you who don't know the Bolt EV, it's just as quick as a GTI but the Bolt runs out of steam up top which is what I need. The M doesn't shine until you get close to triple digits and then it really begs for more which I'm happy to oblige every chance I get.

Anyway, kids are 3 and 6. I have a diesel Ford F-250, I also have a 1968 Impala convertible. I haul the kids in my cars less than 1% of the time. Usually take the wife's MDX, or we're camping/boating so we take my crew cab F250 (6MT of course). So of my fleet of 3, I own 3 V8's. Love them all but don't mind saving some money to afford more boat parts. I am a car guy, but in reality, I'm a die hard fisherman and boater first and foremost.

I really just need something temporary that I won't lose my ass on until my Cybertruck Tri is built. I think it'll be cheaper long term to just feed the M a bunch of fuel because it'll probably still be worth $30k in 2 years when the truck is ready. But I'll be in jail or dead by then if I keep the M.

[dreamingat30fps]

I had a 2014 Ford Focus Hatchback 5spd for a while. It was more fun that I would of thought. I still miss it, especially since I paid like $6k for it, It had like 80k miles but was in mint condition. Ended up selling it like a year later for $6.5k.

[plutnicki]

I just bought my youngest his first car, we got a 2016 Honda Civic Touring with 25k for $16k on the nose. Plenty of pep, drives nice, really nice stereo, decent nav, power seats, CarPlay and all the safety features including an ACC that works pretty well. Heated leather seats front and back. CVT is uninspired but so common in this class. Of course Honda reliability. 40mpg on cheap 87 octane gas. Plenty big enough for a family car. You can find MTs in the LX sedan or the Si or the Hatch, but you get a lot of goodies in the Touring.

[4Hockey4]

We have a 2018 Civic 2.0 EX Turbo, loaded. (our 3rd Civic) It runs well and obviously will run forever.

Loaded used s/b around $15K..here same car we have but 2017, low mileage, 0-60 in 6.5, 40 MPG. Our one Civic has 151K, almost no repairs. Near you

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=287022435

[chassis]

Why add a fourth vehicle? Seems unnecessary unless it's a real dream/desire vehicle that punches some buttons for you. Given the requirements in the OP, that does not seem to be the case.

Keep the money in your wallet and drive one of the three other vehicles.

[Humdizzle]

all this civic talk has got me wanting to upgrade mine to a newer model now lol. i bought my 09 with 50k miles 2 years ago. its over 100k now and nothing has gone wrong. bought a good set of all seasons an that was it. it only has liability insurance, and takes 87 octane. i average 80mph and get 30mpg.

[4Hockey4]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

all this civic talk has got me wanting to upgrade mine to a newer model now lol. i bought my 09 with 50k miles 2 years ago. its over 100k now and nothing has gone wrong. bought a good set of all seasons an that was it. it only has liability insurance, and takes 87 octane. i average 80mph and get 30mpg.

Our 2012 has 151K miles, almost no issues. But man the 18' Turbo EX is way nicer. Paid $21.5K new, loaded. Great car and gets down the road. (average 35 MPG)

[XutvJet]

Infiniti G37S 6mt sedan, proper 19" wheels, and a mild drop.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Good thing you had it only for a year, and the 5-speed above all else. My son works for a Ford dealer, those things are atrocious based on what he tells me. Mainly the auto's are the issue due to a faulty DCT (which Ford knew about but ignored, and now has a class action) but the poor build quality from doors being misaligned, bad engine mounts causing excessive NVH, horns failing, and s*** fit and finish among many other issues (all at low milage), I feel bad for the people who had to deal with all those issues, so many people got scammed and lost money due to the transmission issues and constant service visits.

I had heard about the automatic issue which is one of the reasons I got the manual. Had not heard about other issues. Mine actually drove great and felt very tight. I was very surprised.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Vivek.

To play devil's advocate, there's a whole lot of fun to be had driving carefree over dips and bumps in the road, not worrying at ALL about any curbs, parking blocks, uneven pavement, etc. When nudging a curb from any angle is usually a $1k mistake, a 4Runner feels like the ultimate freedom. And the v8 model is an absolute blast, speedometer reads to 110 iirc but it'll actually do around 140 comfortably.

I got a 4 Runner rental a few years back and I agree, I drove it like a monster truck for hilarity's sake. Driving over grass medians in parking lots, crashing over curbs, nailing every pothole, probably shouting "yee haw" while doing it. You take for granted how car-like modern SUV's are when actually getting into something that still drives like a truck.

I still loved my GTI for lots of other reasons but everyone's got their own methods of fun. Some people think Water Polo is fun, and some people like shotgunning beer - just need to find what works for your "Brand" of hoon-ism.

[Captain Starbucks]

Running the numbers between GTI, Bolt and my M3, it seems like if I can keep myself out of jail, it's most cost effective to just shovel heaps of fuel at the M. The GTI is cheaper to operate but is depreciating faster than the M. Bolt is waaaay cheaper to operate but like a toaster, depreciation is comparable to a cliff. When my electric truck is ready, the M will probably still be worth what it's worth now. Wife is still pushing for GTI but aside from the pure satisfaction my car gives me, and barring any unknown repairs, I think I'll just keep enjoying the shit out of my E90 M3 6MT.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by Machinebuilder

I know people may laugh but I was recently looking for a fun little spare car. I know and test drove alot of the cars mentioned which are all good choices. I was leaning towards a GTI or Civic SI but I surprised myself and got a Prius Prime limited for $22,000 after deductions. Its not a fast car but its zippy, fun to drive, comfortable and super economical. Granted I have a BMW 440IX 6 speed also but right now the Prius Prime gets all the use. All I can say is test drive the cars and see which you personally like. Keep an open mind and your final choice may surprise you.

I am considering a hybrid of some type as my beater only because I would get a pass to use the carpool lane on the Long Island Expressway. It has to have active cruise control though.

[gatorfast]

GTI. Answer is always a GTI

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

I am considering a hybrid of some type as my beater only because I would get a pass to use the carpool lane on the Long Island Expressway. It has to have active cruise control though.

Considering that the LIE is the longest parking lot in the world, that makes sense.

What are the rules in NY? In Arizona, for example, the state has slowly been cutting back on hybrids. Prior to March of this year, one could only get a hybrid authorized for the car pool lane if the owner is grandfathered (I was as I had two Priuses prior to my two BMW PHEVs). Since March, only BEVs.

There are many hybrids out there but what are your needs in a car other than driving in a car pool lane and what are the hybrid rules in NY.

While I am in Arizona now, I used to be a rackets prosecutor in NY for Bob Morgenthau.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

GTI. Answer is always a GTI

Miata
Is
Always
The
Answer

But yeah, GTI wins this round. An IS38, downpipe, EQT tune and an intercooler and you've got 390hp. Don't forget a clutch if you want three pedals, the stock one is weak, ask me how I know.

[fgpalmer71]

I owned a 2010 mazda3 sport hatchback with the 6mt and that car was fun....reliable as hell....and never needed anything from me other then oil, tires, brakes and gasoline. If you want something that's reasonably fun, 6mt, mod "resistant", I see no better choice given your parameters. If you haven't driven one be sure you do.

[Gdiddy23]

Originally Posted by 86Zed

Do you have kids already? If so you probably know 4-doors and easy access is really going to save you frustration etc. Hence why so many people are running around in bigger cars.

This a car forum though and there is no need to compromise on all fronts! We have a one year old and the current kiddo haulers are a 2016 GTI and 2011 BMW wagon, both bought used at or below your budget. Both fit the stroller and crud while leaving space for groceries.



Both the wife and I made 6MT a must-have requirement. An Acura ILX or similar would be in the running otherwise. Out of the options you mentioned a WRX or 2 series makes the most sense. Having owned both a 228i MSport and GTI I would say the GTI is 85% of the BMW (sans RWD) for a whole lot less money. We also owned a Mazda3 and it bored us to death with autotragic, sold in under a year.

I work right down the street from where this photo was taken

[schnellwagen]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Best bang for the buck - Mazda 3. Great on gas and very reliable, had one for 4 years. Fun? As fun as 15-20k economy car can be. My non-car friends all seemed to love it and love driving it.

I learned stick on my friend's 2013 Mazda 3 2.0 and I definitely recommend Mazda 3 for this price point. It handles much better than the class average, gets great fuel economy, is built well, and has a very premium interior in the top trims. The 6MT feels good in the hand and the clutch is not problematic.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by schnellwagen

I learned stick on my friend's 2013 Mazda 3 2.0 and I definitely recommend Mazda 3 for this price point. It handles much better than the class average, gets great fuel economy, is built well, and has a very premium interior in the top trims. The 6MT feels good in the hand and the clutch is not problematic.

Agree, great all around car.

The Mazda3 starting with its refresh in 2013 had by far and away the best interior of that segment even at the base level (simple stuff like soft touch plastic) and felt more "connected" to the road (if that's even a word I can use here). These two factors impressed me enough that I chose it over the competition back then. Looking at them now, I still would choose the current Mazda3 over a current Corolla or Civic as I think the interior design and materials are just much more refined.

[schnellwagen]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Agree, great all around car.

The Mazda3 starting with its refresh in 2013 had by far and away the best interior of that segment even at the base level (simple stuff like soft touch plastic) and felt more "connected" to the road (if that's even a word I can use here). These two factors impressed me enough that I chose it over the competition back then. Looking at them now, I still would choose the current Mazda3 over a current Corolla or Civic as I think the interior design and materials are just much more refined.

Actually when I got my F30 I did a side by side comparison with my friend's Mazda which had materials not too far in quality from mine (I have a relatively lower spec 3 series with sensatec). When driving, actually, the road noise is comparable with my car and it has less build quality issues