[bucketfoot]

Born and raised there (OK born in San Mateo, but grew up in the East Bay). Would NEVER EVER consider going back.

You pay a premium to live in a place that is quite frankly a hellhole

[Vivek.]

Originally Posted by Mosaud1998

I mean, my parents paid $15k last year for property tax on our current house.

Houses I've looked at on Zillow, their property tax is around $6k (Houston area)

Like this house for example:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...25460460_zpid/
idk how it went down to $2k

That's cheap as all fuck frankly, like 1/8th the cost per sq ft here. But then you gotta live in Texas which I did for 4 years and hated every second of it. Not to mention its almost as far from actual Houston downtown as I am from SF (and there are 15 cities/towns in between, Houston is just one sprawling blob), so its cool and all if you never leave your house but what's the fun in that

[Mosaud1998]

Originally Posted by Vivek.

That's cheap as all fuck frankly, like 1/8th the cost per sq ft here. But then you gotta live in Texas which I did for 4 years and hated every second of it. Not to mention its almost as far from actual Houston downtown as I am from SF (and there are 15 cities/towns in between, Houston is just one sprawling blob), so its cool and all if you never leave your house but what's the fun in that

Yeah, I'm planning on getting an internship out in Texas. While I'm there, I'll probably visit a few cities and check out how the real estate market looks.

Just dk if I wanna drive my E90 or drive all the way there in general or catch a flight and borrow one of my cousins' cars

If I like the area, I might decide to buy a house there and start my life in Texas. If not, well I guess Chicago it is.

[TiMSport]

Don't forget the weather (and ahem power grid) down there is shit. Not only is it hot as hell in Summer, you now have to be concerned about the crazy ass Winters.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by TiMSport

Don't forget the weather (and ahem power grid) down there is shit. Not only is it hot as hell in Summer, you now have to be concerned about the crazy ass Winters.

Meh I don't know about all this amazing weather shit people talk about CA. We were there like Aug-Oct and in August it was hot as fuck in the northern CA area. Even up in fucking Yosemite it was like over 100F. Then in the winter it gets cold as shit (by Floridian standards) even now it's like 30s at night where my buddy lives near Sacramento which for me is basically freezing ass cold might as well be in Alaska.

I know San Fransisco is usually cooler and basically has its own weather, maybe southern CA is better. By the time we got down to San Diego it was already Sept-Oct and it was nice, but I'm not sure if that's because it was southern CA or just time of the year.

If someone made me live in CA I would probably choose San Diego. Seemed like the most "normal" of the areas we visited.

[TiMSport]

SoCal is completely different from NorCal. Generally speaking, when people mention the weather being great in Cali, it's more or less the southern part of the state. It doesn't get too hot and it doesn't get too cold.

[evil-G-nius]

Originally Posted by TiMSport

SoCal is completely different from NorCal. Generally speaking, when people mention the weather being great in Cali, it's more or less the southern part of the state. It doesn't get too hot and it doesn't get too cold.

THIS!

Up here in the North we have seriously bi-polar weather. In the summer it can be 90's - 100's during the day and drop to the 50's at night. That is really hard to deal with for some people. LOL.

[NorCalAthlete]

To be fair a lot of it has to do with micro climates as well.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...francisco.html

This article is just about SF itself but it applies to the whole bay area too - it can be a beautiful, 75 degree sunny day in San Mateo, and 50 degrees with fog and rain on the coast in Half Moon Bay. So you get tourists coming in for a beach day, realizing halfway there the weather sucks, and turning around

Conversely sometimes it's cloudy and overcast and cold inland and nice and balmy and sunny on the coast.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by TiMSport

Haha that's virtually ALL of Orange County! That's why I liked living there.

there are some areas of oc that suck. we used to live in orange. very nice little town when i bought my place back in 2010. then prop 47 and 57 passed and accelerated the homeless problem. there was a huge encampment in anaheim in a riverbed near angels stadium. eventually that got disbanded through a court order (ridiculous california politics made it go that far). once that happened, there were homeless people everywhere. it got to the point where my wife didn't want to go to the grocery store after dark.

[TiMSport]

Ahh. Sounds like I got out just in time around 2009. I lived in Irvine so that probably hasn't changed much.

[UncleWede]

"The coldest winter I spent was that summer in SF"

In SoCal, I can start skiing at Mountain High (no, not GREAT, but still skiing) and then leave around 1, get home in 2 hours, suit up and catch an evening session. Especially right about now, the time just changed.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by TiMSport

Ahh. Sounds like I got out just in time around 2009. I lived in Irvine so that probably hasn't changed much.

we're in south oc now. much nicer than i deserve. i have to hide my shitty desert truck on the side of the house and my wife banned me from doing oil changes at the house as well. shes trying to make it look like we're not a couple of hillbillies.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Mosaud1998

I would never move out to California.

No offense to anyone that lives there, but from what I've heard from friends that have gone to California for vacation, "Cali folks are weird and not in a good way"

Plus, everything is expensive

If you live in Chicago, the politics are the same.

[damnitBobby]

Originally Posted by Mosaud1998

I mean, my parents paid $15k last year for property tax on our current house.

Houses I've looked at on Zillow, their property tax is around $6k (Houston area)

Like this house for example:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...25460460_zpid/
idk how it went down to $2k

Houstonian here. Some background: Born and partially raised in Queens, NY. Have family in both California, New York, and Texas. Leisure travel more than the average person.

Property taxes in Texas are known to be some of the highest. BUT that depends entirely on where you live. Out in the sticks you can pay something like 1 -1.5% but in a decent suburb of Houston you are paying more like 2.5-3%.

I have actually thought about moving to a Chicago suburb since I like visiting the city up there. But I couldn't live with that kind of cold weather on a day to day basis.

I think it all comes down to what you are willing to sacrifice and what fits your lifestyle best. I can't deal with too much congestion hence I prefer living in the suburb. I have the convenience of being maybe 20-25 minute drive to any part of Houston. Whether it be a Rockets game, a local restaurant, a particular store, shopping etc. I'm also about a hour away from the beach which is always full of activities. The weather here is terribly hot during the summer but all other seasons it's perfectly fine.

I went through the major floods and recent ice storm. My area never flooded nor did my electricity go out for anything more than a few hours. Not saying it didn't happen to everyone but the media definitely glorified some of it.

Yes I very much enjoy visiting both Cali and NY. But with all things considered I could never live there or raise a future family there.

[mdf]

Originally Posted by thegump

an opportunity in Fremont, CA ... any advice or things you feel I should know before committing.

Generally. Traffic has been mentioned. Pre-Covid, peak-hour traffic across the area could be just awful. There has been an effort to make streets here more bikeable. California is a high tax state. If you and/or your spouse will have a small-business/side-hustle for example, I find business licenses relatively expensive. If you have an LLC, that's $800 minimum. The minimum wage here is relatively high. About crime. I used to think of my neighborhood in SF as safe. It seemed like once in a while, "the" car thieves would work the street and there would be a couple broken car windows all in one night, but it didn't happen often. Now, here in my neighborhood, burglaries from cars are I would call common. So common that the city has put up "park smart" street signs and we get regular police patrols. So common that before street sweeping went through, there was an unbroken trail of shattered window glass that went up the street. Like a shattered glass beach front against the curb. Our neighbor's car has apparently been hit three times. A TV cameraman was robbed at gunpoint of his camera here, just a couple streets over. If you read reddit's SF community there have been a few discussions about the feeling that crime rates are growing and why, and some responses that the data doesn't support the feeling. I can say this for sure: There are a lot more broken car windows on our street than there were two years ago, five years ago.

Originally Posted by thegump

How do you deal with the absurd cost of living (those in the middle class for CA)?

A homeowner friend rents out his spare bedroom to help with their mortgage. His wife has a side-hustle blog. Trader Joes is a pretty good grocery store here. IMO they tend to have good quality and for the things we buy their prices are lower than other national chains. There is Costco of course if you can deal with that. Covered California is California's implementation of the Affordable Care Act, and I think it's excellent. If you are a low(-er) income resident, you can get a low(-er) cost health insurance plan. You can visit https://www.coveredca.com/ and get an instant simple quote if you are curious. If you and your spouse are both employed with provided insurance then it doesn't affect you. But it used to be that if you went to the site and input the basic, poverty level annual income amount, among the options you would get offered a basic health plan with one free annual visit for $1/month. Here in SF anyway. I forget which provider that was, it was a small regional hospital group, but that was pretty cool I thought. Even for middle-class, though I'm not sure what that is in California, there are discounted health plans available through Covered California. And if you have a pre-existing condition, it's covered.

Originally Posted by thegump

Good walkable places to live?

I think it's going to depend on what you like and also your commute tolerance. There are lots of great walkable places to live around the Bay Area. You can live in (or visit) places close to the beach, close to the mountains, in the city.

[thegump]

Looks like we may be making a visit soon. I appreciate all the input

For those in the area or in the know, what areas surrounding Tesla are within a decent commute pre-covid (<45min) that we should check out?

Our wish list for home base:
Walkable/short drive to restaurants, boutiques and box stores
Near parks or trails
Prefer close proximity to Tesla to reduce commute times

Thoughts on Union City, East San Jose, Niles, Milpitas and Downtown Fremont?

[Germanauto]

All this talk about climate...you don't realize how good NorCal still has it compared to the rest of the country. I've lived in the Midwest and Northwest for 95% of my life and the climate sucks for at least 60% of the year.

Anyhow I've been in SoCal nearly 2 years. There's a lot of great things about this state but objectively speaking there's a ton of problems too, most notably cost of living/taxes. But OP it sounds like moving here is the right career choice for you. In my profession I'm free to move wherever and actually earn more and pay less in taxes. But something about California makes it very difficult to leave!

As others have alluded to, NorCal and SoCal are extremely different. I spent most of my life visiting NorCal. It has it's pros and cons for sure. More nerdy/techy/hippie culture, lots of natural beauty and things to do (in a different way from SoCal), great schools and universities, and actual downtown in SF, etc. I could see myself living there, but SoCal has a lot more sex appeal and a unique culture in its own right.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

there are some areas of oc that suck. we used to live in orange. very nice little town when i bought my place back in 2010. then prop 47 and 57 passed and accelerated the homeless problem. there was a huge encampment in anaheim in a riverbed near angels stadium. eventually that got disbanded through a court order (ridiculous california politics made it go that far). once that happened, there were homeless people everywhere. it got to the point where my wife didn't want to go to the grocery store after dark.

Generally north of the 55 is mediocre, south of it is heavenly. Exceptions being Orange and South Coast Plaza area.

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

"The coldest winter I spent was that summer in SF"

In SoCal, I can start skiing at Mountain High (no, not GREAT, but still skiing) and then leave around 1, get home in 2 hours, suit up and catch an evening session. Especially right about now, the time just changed.

I love three day weekends in the winter (right now!): One day go to Big Bear, another to Anza Borrega/Joshua Tree, and the third to the coast. It's pretty amazing and I always get a kick out of it!

SoCal summers can get hot inland, but not stupid hot and only for a couple months. I love this place!

[2000cs]

I have a relative who rents in Foster City and is a tech VP. He works from home so no commute concerns. Wants to move out of state but is very methodical about it - tax optimizing around some stock options that may pop in an IPO, etc.

Another relative lives in Oakland and is an MD in the area. Just interviewed for a job in Tacoma but likely will stay in Oakland.

Personally I’ve never spent enough time in the Bay Area to develop a like for it. Traffic, parking, and so forth. I suppose one can learn this area like any other, but I’ve never felt the desire nor had the need.

If Tesla, does the job have to be there? Could be CA another location or TX perhaps?

From a career perspective it could be a good/great move. Especially if you view it as a stepping stone to other tech companies, start-ups, etc. That’s my Foster City relative’s experience: step through opportunities accumulating wealth and stock options, view it as temporary (even if a decade), and ultimately plan to live wherever you want.

[KevinC]

I grew up on the Peninsula, migrated to OC at 24 and spent the next 20+ years there, so I've seen both ends of the state. Cost of housing has been COMPLETELY out of control for as long as I can remember. Roads used to be among the best in the country - as they should be with favorable weather and massive gasoline taxes theoretically providing the capital to maintain them. Now lots of CA roads are like a 3rd world country.

In 2004 my employer decided to close our OC sales office (after a sales tax fight with the state) and move us to Phoenix, where we had an existing office. Took me about 5 seconds to decide I was all-in for the move. First thing I did was find an income calculator online and compare my earnings in CA vs same money in AZ - and it was basically a 100% difference. Awesome. Bought a nice 3br house for $141k in Chandler. Massive adjustment moving from Huntington Beach, right around the corner from the Pacific Ocean, to the scorching temps of metro Phoenix, but I didn't care and adjusted within 2-3 years. 4 years ago my girl and I sold our houses and moved 3 hours to the south to Cochise county and built a new house on 4 acres, and couldn't be happier. Getting exiled out of Kalifornia was the best thing to ever happen to me. I hate seeing what it has become, and I'm not sure it can ever be fixed.

[CT_M3]

California is expensive for sure. I've had the luck to live in both CA and TX. The way I look at it, CA is a state where I would go when there is a major recession and prices are depressed. The cost of living is high when the boom times are on. People complain about it, but if you're in, you're not complaining much. We complain about housing, but if your house has increased by 200-400%, you're not really. This is pretty true for most of the West Coast, not just CA though, so my comments will apply to them as well.

It's a state that gets drunk on boom times, more so than other states, due to the wealth here.

Yes, the state taxes are high, the roads sometimes could be better and sometimes, I wonder if another state is a better alternative. There could be better states out there, but the state has 1) pretty darn good weather 2) the culture with its diversity and food, you will find no where else in the other states in the US. 3) the natural beauty here, even with the wildfires, is pretty amazing. Easy access to beautiful trails, vistas within 30 minutes drive or less.

Negatives:
1) Cost of living for sure: But for CA, if you don't dine out often, its manageable. The key is housing. Once you solve that, it's good.

Compared to other states:
I lived in TX for a while and I shudder at the stories of the hordes moving there. TX was decent when I was there, but now? It's jammed with folks, housing for miles (yes, if you like new homes that are replicated for miles, that works for you). Traffic was bad when I left and I can't imagine now (I'm talking Dallas, Austin). Weather? *Snorts*. If you like 90F-120F for most of the year, that works. Now, that's 90-120F for most of the day, not just the peak temps. I remember walking in the evening with temps in the mid 80s often. There is no reprieve.

2) Taxes: Yes, TX has no income tax. But how do they get you? RE tax, its adjusted every year to reflect market values (@~3%). So even though prices have taken off in TX, guess what? So have your taxes. Someone owning a $2M home in the Bay pays somewhat equivalent tax to a home in TX for $700-800K. CA has prop 13 for better or worse, but essentially, you are locked into the rate you pay @ the time of purchase for life, not so in TX. My neighbor's home is valued over $2M but they pay $2K in taxes, I kid you not.

Weather: The weather also in additional costs. Additional water costs, repair costs (in case of foundational settling) as well as A/C costs (an essential in TX) also factor in. Housing materials also wear down faster in TX, roofing tiles last only 20 vs 30 years for anywhere else.

TX weather has been getting worse (like most of the world). When I was there, snow fall during Christmas was like a fun event for 1 day. Now you have possibly 1 week of snow and the weather drops to near 30s in Dallas. Winter in the DFW area is miserable. I've always consider TX an indoor state lol.

vs. CA: I view the state taxes etc. as the cost of living in a state where natural beauty exists. One more thing that TX doesn't have much of (flat except for Austin hill country). The routes here for driving are just awesome.

TLDR:
There are trade-offs. I think as an individual, to make choices based on the flavor of the moment, tends to have the less then optimal outcome. I don't consider CA the best either; the state has flaws like others have mentioned. But, at the same time, every post above is based on personal experience and ultimately, it depends on what YOU value/are looking for.

Edit: For me/us, CA is better because it suits what we're looking for BUT our timing was exceptional and we had savings to deploy. The last big recession was actually an opportunity but it was so devastating that folks that were overleveraged were wiped out. People fled the state because of their losses. Not the silly 'buy the dip' social media wisdom, but clear, methodical analysis.

thegump DM me if you need tips. I live in the area and can provide some ideas.