[T_U_D]

Wasn’t it Tag that discovered the base G87 is getting the S58B30T0 right off that bat at 453 bhp though? That would put a large hole in the theory of the S58B30O0 being used with the manual the G87.

[M3WC]

Are we 100% sure the G87 Comp is getting 503hp? Isn't G87 base M2 set to get 453hp.

I got a feeling the G87 will follow the F87. The base model gets pulled when G87 Comp arrives. Comp gets bump to 473hp(same as base M3/M4) and still has manual option. It will get other upgrades including standard M3/M4 seats. The hint is BMW offering manual and auto on the base G87, this is unlike the G80/82.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Tag

Really hope they don't do what they did with the F87 by getting rid of the base model and only offering a Competition going forward. I know in the case of the F87 it was due to WLTP emissions.

Just saw this post, I honestly think this is what is going to happen. I posted above. Hint one, base G87 getting both transmission options. Hint two, ynguldyn using "changeover" wording.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Are we 100% sure the G87 Comp is getting 503hp?

No one said the M2c was getting 503hp.

Originally Posted by M3WC

Isn't G87 base M2 set to get 453hp.

Yes

Originally Posted by M3WC

I got a feeling the G87 will follow the F87. The base model gets pulled when G87 Comp arrives. Comp gets bump to 473hp(same as base M3/M4) and still has manual option. It will get other upgrades including standard M3/M4 seats. The hint is BMW offering manual and auto on the base G87, this is unlike the G80/82.

Plausible, but too early to know.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Tag

I was waiting on mentioning this here until we had more info, but here's a bit of a 'potential' curve ball.

Hopefully ynguldyn can comment on this here.

[COLOR="DarkRed"]Really hope they don't do what they did with the F87 by getting rid of the base model and only offering a Competition going forward.[/COLOR] I know in the case of the F87 it was due to WLTP emissions.

BMW is inching to get rid of the manual option and go strictly auto only, in order to save a buck but the market still speaks loudly that they want a clutch pedal, at least for the M models, so I could see them offering two distinguishing versions of the M2, to at least differentiate transmission, out of necessity. There will never be one sole auto only Competition version, without a manual offering to offset it.

As far manual/auto torque issue, I honestly believe they felt that they have met their cap with the current manual gearbox and if the M2 is to get more power, it will be strictly auto only.

A few years ago, BMW claimed that 600hp was the cap for manual transmission but being that they are still using a 15 year old gear box mechanics on the M2, I could see why that number is now conservatively estimated.

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...for-this-world

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Tag

No one said the M2c was getting 503hp.

It was mentioned early in thread as a reason Comp would be auto-only. BMW not wanting to sell 500+hp car with a manual.

My opinion if G87 gets 500+hp, it will be either CS or CSL edition(auto only).

Originally Posted by Tag

Plausible, but too early to know.

Gut feeling, this is what is planned. 473hp M2 comp, w/ manual option, replacing base model two years from now.

[SW19]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Just saw this post, I honestly think this is what is going to happen. I posted above. Hint one, base G87 getting both transmission options. Hint two, ynguldyn using "changeover" wording.

I think you are right and that wording of changeover probably confirms it.So regular M2 gets discontinued when M2C is released just like the F87.I was going to wait for the LCI anyway but i definitely would not want to get the car right now based on this info.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by M3WC

It was mentioned early in thread as a reason Comp would be auto-only. BMW not wanting to sell 500+hp car with a manual.

My opinion if G87 gets 500+hp, it will be either CS or CSL edition(auto only).

Gut feeling, this is what is planned.

The main driver for what the MT can handle is not hp, it's all about torque. The current MT can't handle the higher torque of the Competition models. BMW to my knowledge has zero interest to invest in a MT that can since this is the very last ICE car, blah blah blah, there's no business case.

[TractionControlDelete]

Originally Posted by atl_1M

Million dollar question…

I'd imagine so because the manual transmission is only rated for 443 lb-ft.

If they purposely detune the M2 base then I could see room for a manual M2 Comp. But if the M2 base is already 406+ lb-ft then that pretty much seals the deal that all other variants will be auto.

BMW has been using the same transmission, derived from the 1M in 2010, in all of the M2/M3/M4 cars. Unlikely they'll change now.

The only way (read: not gonna happen) is if they bring back the manual transmission from the E60 M5.

[Purekoryo]

Never understood the existence of the M2. It's like they made a mistake and said "oops made the M3 too big! Let's build an actual M3 and call it M2!"

Weight and power are getting awfully close to each other. Even the entire power train is exactly the same!

[PLF69]

Don't get too hung up on the numbers, base M3 MT vs Comp 8AT is only like .1 second difference in a 5-120mph stint.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by TractionControlDelete

I'd imagine so because the manual transmission is only rated for 443 lb-ft.

If they purposely detune the M2 base then I could see room for a manual M2 Comp. But if the M2 base is already 406+ lb-ft then that pretty much seals the deal that all other variants will be auto.

Most likely scenario, in two years Comp gets hp/tq numbers from base G80/82. The higher hp/tq models will be either CS or CSL and auto only.

[TractionControlDelete]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Are we 100% sure the G87 Comp is getting 503hp? Isn't G87 base M2 set to get 453hp.

I got a feeling the G87 will follow the F87. The base model gets pulled when G87 Comp arrives. Comp gets bump to 473hp(same as base M3/M4) and still has manual option. It will get other upgrades including standard M3/M4 seats. The hint is BMW offering manual and auto on the base G87, this is unlike the G80/82.

That's a solid point. M5 to M5CS is only 20hp so the 20hp jump from M2 to M2C could work then they'd still have the 6MT.

Moreover, the M2 starts at 453 so I could see the M2C bumping to 463, and the M2CS going to 473 which are the exact increments for M5/M5C/M5CS so there is precedent for it.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by PLF69

Don't get too hung up on the numbers, base M3 MT vs Comp 8AT is only like .1 second difference in a 5-120mph stint.

That true because your typical stock tune, the base or Comp model, primarily targets a back-loaded map, which only unleashes its full potential at wide-open throttle.

This is for two reasons: you get the extra power when and where you need it the most, while not effecting fuel consumption or emissions for typical driving.

Emission levels are exempt and not measured at WOT, which is why a 4 cylinder Geo Metro and W16 Bugatti gives off vastly different amounts of air pollution but both are still street legal.

[dmboone25]

So they won't sell the base M2 and comp simultaneously?

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

So they won't sell the base M2 and comp simultaneously?

No one really knows. But the wording("changeover") by ynguldyn seems to suggest G87 is following F87 path. It already has broken from G80/G82 lifecyle, by launching in base only with both manual/auto. Possibly looks like the base G87 is getting a 2 year run. With a Comp model following likely getting small hp bump and some new standard options/colors.

[reward72]

Originally Posted by Purekoryo

Never understood the existence of the M2. It's like they made a mistake and said "oops made the M3 too big! Let's build an actual M3 and call it M2!"

A whole lot of people think that bigger is better. It is only true for that one thing people pretend it isn't.

[pz619]

All I gotta say, is they better not screw us MT people over with this auto only Competition!

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by TractionControlDelete

That's a solid point. M5 to M5CS is only 20hp so the 20hp jump from M2 to M2C could work then they'd still have the 6MT.

Moreover, the M2 starts at 453 so I could see the M2C bumping to 463, and the M2CS going to 473 which are the exact increments for M5/M5C/M5CS so there is precedent for it.

There you go, that sounds more believably; give the Competition version of the M2 473hp but keep the torque at a tolerance-friendly 405, so they can still offer it with a manual option but still under the Comp moniker..

[AllaVodka]

Yawn

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by ronin13013

will it be auto only?

If it is a replacement for the "regular" M2, then I would say no as that would make no sense. My personal opinion is that this will be a mild refresh with a small bump in power and include options as standard that were optional on the "base" car, this would be an excuse for BMW to charge more, which of course it will. I would guess 473 hp, .406 tq, new colors and probably interior colors as well.
It's still a long while away, so to the new G87 owners, enjoy your cars. Hell, to the F87 owners, enjoy your cars.

[trey100]

Originally Posted by Tag

Not that long, it's actually 1yr and 4mo after the base M2 is launched.

But wasn't the change to the S55 in the M2 driven by emissions issues with the N55 in the OG and not necessarily intended as a planned big change for the "Comp"? Traditionally I imagine the regular and comp would be more like what they did with the F80 and G80 which would mean it could be offered out of the gate.