[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by zero21

Idk this particular scenario obviously, but I've seen several cases where it can appear to be a lie, but in reality they just had bad info or marching orders from someone else about the situation.

It's easy for us to armchair and tell ourselves stories, but in the end few people actually have the facts to judge more often than not.

I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt but, in this situation he told me verbatim the following (all unprompted):

* "you are one of 15 orders"
* "your the only MSRP one"
* "you are legit the only m2 order at sticker, all the rest are $5k+"

Then I ended up getting in touch with two people on the forums who are both on the waiting list at my dealer at MSRP (one of them with my CA too). In addition the # they were on the list didn't make sense with when he told me there was 15 on the list. I wanted to be sure so I emailed him with a dummy gmail account inquiring about an M2 and he responded saying that their #7 allocation was available at MSRP.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by CodeSlinger

I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt but, in this situation he told me verbatim the following (all unprompted):

* "you are one of 15 orders"
* "your the only MSRP one"
* "you are legit the only m2 order at sticker, all the rest are $5k+"

Then I ended up getting in touch with two people on the forums who are both on the waiting list at my dealer at MSRP (one of them with my CA too). In addition the # they were on the list didn't make sense with when he told me there was 15 on the list. I wanted to be sure so I emailed him with a dummy gmail account inquiring about an M2 and he responded saying that their #7 allocation was available at MSRP.

Wow. What a douche.

[StickyPickle]

Originally Posted by CodeSlinger

I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt but, in this situation he told me verbatim the following (all unprompted):

* "you are one of 15 orders"
* "your the only MSRP one"
* "you are legit the only m2 order at sticker, all the rest are $5k+"

Then I ended up getting in touch with two people on the forums who are both on the waiting list at my dealer at MSRP (one of them with my CA too). In addition the # they were on the list didn't make sense with when he told me there was 15 on the list. I wanted to be sure so I emailed him with a dummy gmail account inquiring about an M2 and he responded saying that their #7 allocation was available at MSRP.

So what was their response when you caught them lying?

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by CodeSlinger

My CA said there was 10+ people in the order bank qnd they were all paying ADM's. I later found out that both were lies, no one was paying ADM's and there were only ~6 in the order bank.

Not sure what the motive is there either lol

What the motive is?

Everything a car salesman tells you is 1) Intended to get you to buy the car ASAP; and 2) Pay as much for it as possible.

Just to highlight this: Years ago in the market for a VW Golf TDi. Walked on to the showroom floor. The place was dead. Crickets. Walked about and no one came out to greet me. Then I watched as a middle aged couple walked in. In a short time a salesman walked up and started the conversation. I didn't object. Just decided to watch the interaction.

I overheard the couple asking about a new Beetle and what incentives there might be. The salesman replied he couldn't do any he had people waiting line to buy the car.

If I had been drinking coffee I would have blown it all over the showroom vehicles... Before entering the dealer showroom I had spent some minutes outside strolling around looking at inventory. The dealer had a lot of Beetles and the lot was as dead as the showroom. Standing in line? Hah!

[GrannyShiftG80]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

What the motive is?

Everything a car salesman tells you is 1) Intended to get you to buy the car ASAP; and 2) Pay as much for it as possible.

Just to highlight this: Years ago in the market for a VW Golf TDi. Walked on to the showroom floor. The place was dead. Crickets. Walked about and no one came out to greet me. Then I watched as a middle aged couple walked in. In a short time a salesman walked up and started the conversation. I didn't object. Just decided to watch the interaction.

I overheard the couple asking about a new Beetle and what incentives there might be. The salesman replied he couldn't do any he had people waiting line to buy the car.

If I had been drinking coffee I would have blown it all over the showroom vehicles... Before entering the dealer showroom I had spent some minutes outside strolling around looking at inventory. The dealer had a lot of Beetles and the lot was as dead as the showroom. Standing in line? Hah!

but if salesperson told me there's 34 people in line ahead of me for the m2... I'd be more inclined to not buy it from them and look elsewhere

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by CodeSlinger

My CA said there was 10+ people in the order bank qnd they were all paying ADM's. I later found out that both were lies, no one was paying ADM's and there were only ~6 in the order bank.

Not sure what the motive is there either lol

A year ago when it was true, that story probably worked like a charm.

Then again, the story was actually true back then and it worked because it was legitimately a seller’s market. Market conditions aren’t the same; feeding people lines/lies won’t work when they’re not actually feeling the pain of a supply crunch.

These guys are simply desperate to turn the clock back to before May 2022.

[Rx-7ames]

Originally Posted by Allenssmart

but if salesperson told me there's 34 people in line ahead of me for the m2... I'd be more inclined to not buy it from them and look elsewhere

Exactly. It's also too risky for a sales person to lie. I've never had to say something that wasn't true to sell a car. It's not a secret though, that I do want to make as much money as possible on every sale. It was very nice when I worked for Toyota and sold a TRD Pro with a 5k ADM.

[Rx-7ames]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

These guys are simply desperate to turn the clock back to before May 2022.

You are not wrong. I admit, it was nice when all I had to do was have the car and it was an easy sale. But I would like to think that then, and now, I provide a level of customer service that my clients appreciate.

[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by StickyPickle

So what was their response when you caught them lying?

I'm not gonna confront him on it until after the deal closes, i don't need it complicating things more for me.

[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

What the motive is?

Everything a car salesman tells you is 1) Intended to get you to buy the car ASAP; and 2) Pay as much for it as possible.

Just to highlight this: Years ago in the market for a VW Golf TDi. Walked on to the showroom floor. The place was dead. Crickets. Walked about and no one came out to greet me. Then I watched as a middle aged couple walked in. In a short time a salesman walked up and started the conversation. I didn't object. Just decided to watch the interaction.

I overheard the couple asking about a new Beetle and what incentives there might be. The salesman replied he couldn't do any he had people waiting line to buy the car.

If I had been drinking coffee I would have blown it all over the showroom vehicles... Before entering the dealer showroom I had spent some minutes outside strolling around looking at inventory. The dealer had a lot of Beetles and the lot was as dead as the showroom. Standing in line? Hah!

Right, but in this case i've been on the list for almost a year. It's clear I'm going to get the car. Lying about how many people are behind me on the list and how much more they are paying (after we already agreed on the price) won't change what I'm paying or when I'm buying it, as both of those have already been determined.

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by 2020m2c

Think M2 is bad check out the boondoggle for the Lotus Emira. Couple years of wait listing and repeated delivery delays. It’s an industry-wide issue. Demand is high and supplies are low. Lots of unmet demand since 2020. It’ll take a couple more years to sort out.

Yes I posted similar in another thread. After my M2 arrives this summer, we will order the Emira. The M240i will be sold when the Emira is in production. Should be fun with the M2 and M240i until that point lol

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by Rx-7ames

You are not wrong. I admit, it was nice when all I had to do was have the car and it was an easy sale. But I would like to think that then, and now, I provide a level of customer service that my clients appreciate.

For sure. Lots of great dealerships and sales folks out there. Referring specifically to the guys like the one CodeSlinger described.

[PackPride85]

lol this is like a copy/paste thread of the OG launch in 2016.

[P1]

Originally Posted by CodeSlinger

My CA said there was 10+ people in the order bank qnd they were all paying ADM's. I later found out that both were lies, no one was paying ADM's and there were only ~6 in the order bank.

Not sure what the motive is there either lol

When he said people were paying above sticker for an M2, you should have known right then and there he was lying.

Honestly. Paying above sticker is dumb enough. But for an M2???

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by P1

When he said people were paying above sticker for an M2, you should have known right then and there he was lying.

Honestly. Paying above sticker is dumb enough. But for an M2???

But I am sure some are. Will they admit it, probably not...

Last April, Delray BMW was charging (or trying to charge) $5k over on a M240.

[AndyinHou]

Originally Posted by Rx-7ames

Exactly. It's also too risky for a sales person to lie. I've never had to say something that wasn't true to sell a car. It's not a secret though, that I do want to make as much money as possible on every sale. It was very nice when I worked for Toyota and sold a TRD Pro with a 5k ADM.

When you were at the Toyota dealership, how much of the ADM would go back to you?

[Jimc]

Originally Posted by Rx-7ames

34 people and only 2 allocations so far. It's going to be a long wait for some people.

They are doing msrp for me at least ..sales guy said he went to bat for me, for them to wave the mark up..true or not, thankfully this is a smooth car purchase and I'll recommend them anytime..

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by CodeSlinger

Right, but in this case i've been on the list for almost a year. It's clear I'm going to get the car. Lying about how many people are behind me on the list and how much more they are paying (after we already agreed on the price) won't change what I'm paying or when I'm buying it, as both of those have already been determined.

Agreeing on the price counts for (almost) nothing unless there is a signed purchase agreement.

(Even a written agreement can have loopholes the dealer can take advantage of to allow it to request more money or even back out of the deal and then sell it to another buyer willing to pay more.)

However, I'm not saying the dealer won't uphold whatever verbal agreement just that if the demand is indeed high the temptation is there to sell the car out from under you for a higher price.

You won't know how this all plays out until the car arrives and you sit down to complete the purchase.

I do truly hope it goes the way you want it to.

[hoyasaxa]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Agreeing on the price counts for (almost) nothing unless there is a signed purchase agreement.

(Even a written agreement can have loopholes the dealer can take advantage of to allow it to request more money or even back out of the deal and then sell it to another buyer willing to pay more.)

However, I'm not saying the dealer won't uphold whatever verbal agreement just that if the demand is indeed high the temptation is there to sell the car out from under you for a higher price.

These dealers really bank on having an information advantage and gambling they won’t find a litigious customer (or that litigation is economically irrational). If a dealer verbally agrees to sell you a car at a particular price, that’s a contract. If they fail to deliver it they can be sued for damages, which is usually the cost to cover. If the thing is that hard to get, they can be forced to sell that very one to you.

Same goes for emails promising a particular price.

The guy earlier in the thread saying his salesman is lying to him: that salesman is committing an actual crime. Any material false statements that cause a customer to part with money are criminal. Including your deposit. It’s just outright fraud. Allaying statements designed to conceal the fraud for longer (such as “you’re number X on the list, it’s coming,” when in fact you’re not or you’re being skipped) are criminal, too.

All these guys are just hoping and praying they won’t get caught and assuming that, if they do, customers won’t do anything.

[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Agreeing on the price counts for (almost) nothing unless there is a signed purchase agreement.

(Even a written agreement can have loopholes the dealer can take advantage of to allow it to request more money or even back out of the deal and then sell it to another buyer willing to pay more.)

However, I'm not saying the dealer won't uphold whatever verbal agreement just that if the demand is indeed high the temptation is there to sell the car out from under you for a higher price.

You won't know how this all plays out until the car arrives and you sit down to complete the purchase.

I do truly hope it goes the way you want it to.

Lol, I mean, what I originally thought was happening was that because I got an MSRP written agreement on April 22 meant I was getting MSRP on the car, even though they had a long list of people paying massiva markups. Now I know that the list is much shorter and that everyone is paying MSRP. If they try to introduce a markup I'll tell them to fuck right off, and they have repeatedly told me they'll honor MSRP. So no idea why they keep lying to me on the list length and number of people paying markups.

S

[hoyasaxa]

Originally Posted by CodeSlinger

So no idea why they keep lying to me on the list length and number of people paying markups.

They’re lying so that you think you got a good deal and so that you don’t look for another dealership and pull your deposit. They’re lying so that it creates the false impression the list is longer than it really is so you think your relative position is better than it really was.

[StickyPickle]

Originally Posted by CodeSlinger

Lol, I mean, what I originally thought was happening was that because I got an MSRP written agreement on April 22 meant I was getting MSRP on the car, even though they had a long list of people paying massiva markups. Now I know that the list is much shorter and that everyone is paying MSRP. If they try to introduce a markup I'll tell them to fuck right off, and they have repeatedly told me they'll honor MSRP. So no idea why they keep lying to me on the list length and number of people paying markups.

S

Sounds like they’re prepping you for trying to charge ADM on your vehicle, lying to you about the high demand and long list. They may tell you they have others paying ADM in order to justify why they can’t honor your agreement anymore. It would be a very shitty and bold tactic to pull on someone.

I get that car dealerships are in this to make a living and want to make as much money as possible and if a dealership is charging ADM, just be honest about it. They won’t get any business from me but it’s totally their prerogative to ask for it. It’s shit like this though that is 100% unacceptable.