[markcu24]

Originally Posted by LivingInSalt

I'll second Progressive. My Geico was about to renew for $8800/yr and I switched to Progressive and it's only $5,000 now

Both of these seem absurd.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by markcu24

I'm using eSurance on my m240 in NY. Around $500/6 mos. They quoted me $550 on a 2021 M2C. It's the lowest I found, came from Progressive and Geico before that. I would imagine their customer service sucks though. Fortunately, I haven't had to find out.

I had esurance years ago and they were great until I had an issue and cost me over $12,000 a year due to their incompetency in representing their client and correctly guiding. I have since switched to Travelers which I have been with for 5+ years.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by markcu24

Both of these seem absurd.

If the $5k is for one car, yeah that seems high (but dont know the underlying circumstances to base it on).

I am a little over $5k/year for a 2018 S5 and 2023 M240 with maximum limits but I live in South Florida which has some of or the highest rates in the Country.

[LivingInSalt]

Originally Posted by atl_1M

5000?? How many cars do you have?

Originally Posted by markcu24

Both of these seem absurd.

3 cars, covering me and an 18yo daughter and 16yo son

[zero21]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

If the $5k is for one car, yeah that seems high (but dont know the underlying circumstances to base it on).

I am a little over $5k/year for a 2018 S5 and 2023 M240 with maximum limits but I live in South Florida which has some of or the highest rates in the Country.

There's just nothing good about the 305

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by zero21

There's just nothing good about the 305

Or the 786, 954 or 561...

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

I am a little over $5k/year for a 2018 S5 and 2023 M240 with maximum limits but I live in South Florida which has some of or the highest rates in the Country.

Last time I was down there, every other driver was either a bluehair who couldn't see over the steering wheel, doing 25 under the speed limit in the left lane, provoking all kinds of road rage and nearly causing accidents constantly, or some flat brim vape bro driving like a madman in some clapped out G30 or similar. More hazardous than driving the 405 freeway in LA. No wonder rates are sky high.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by KevinC

Last time I was down there, every other driver was either a bluehair who couldn't see over the steering wheel, doing 25 under the speed limit in the left lane, provoking all kinds of road rage and nearly causing accidents constantly, or some flat brim vape bro driving like a madman in some clapped out G30 or similar. More hazardous than driving the 405 freeway in LA. No wonder rates are sky high.

That and dont forget all the unregistered vehicles, people driving without a license and no inspections (a large number of cars are not fit for the road)....oh, and all the unlicensed companies driving truck with cargo unsecured and flying out on the road for other to hit/run over. Yes, the weather is beautiful here and its a wonderful place to live...

[RockCrusher]

Well, went from bleak to bleaker.

Response I got from one dealer:

"The new M2 is in very high demand and we were lucky enought the get one from BMW apart from the ordered ones we have. As they are in high demand, we did just have a client place a deposit to secure that car. We could place you on the waiting list though our list is quite long and it would be 2-3 years before we would get an allocation. Let me know if you would like to be added to the list!"

I politely declined to be added to the list.

'course part of me suspects 2 to 3 years is an exaggeration with the intent to have me enter a bidding war...

Everything a car salesman tells you is 1) Intended to get you to buy the car as soon as possible; and 2) Pay as much for the car as possible.

Assuming the 2 to 3 years' wait is real -- and I have my doubts -- I've seen this before. There is a time when people are throwing money at some highly desirable car like crazy but then the furor dies down and before you know it discounts become available.

[Rx-7ames]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Well, went from bleak to bleaker.

Response I got from one dealer:

"The new M2 is in very high demand and we were lucky enought the get one from BMW apart from the ordered ones we have. As they are in high demand, we did just have a client place a deposit to secure that car. We could place you on the waiting list though our list is quite long and it would be 2-3 years before we would get an allocation. Let me know if you would like to be added to the list!"

This is completely plausible. We have every reason to believe there will not be very many of these cars. A low volume store like mine might only see 1 or 2 a year. If your store indeed has several people on their list then it might take 2-3 years for you to get one.

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

'course part of me suspects 2 to 3 years is an exaggeration with the intent to have me enter a bidding war...

Did your CA discuss price? Did you discuss price? If not then how can you get into a bidding war. This doesn't seem very logical to me.

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Everything a car salesman tells you is 1) Intended to get you to buy the car as soon as possible; and 2) Pay as much for the car as possible.

1) You approach a car salesman about buying a car. Then the car salesman asks you to buy a car. It seems like this is obvious and not necessarily a bad thing. 2) This also seems obvious. Client Advisors get paid commission and they want to get paid as much as they realistically can.

Both of these things are fine unless a salesperson is lying to or deceiving a client. That's never acceptable. The problem I have is when a client automatically assumes a car salesman is lying just to accomplish these things. Since you are skeptical so far of what the CA is telling you it seems like you are leaning this way. If you don't trust your CA then find someone you can trust.

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Assuming the 2 to 3 years' wait is real -- and I have my doubts -- I've seen this before. There is a time when people are throwing money at some highly desirable car like crazy but then the furor dies down and before you know it discounts become available.

This is very likely what will happen, and it's because dealerships have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Right now if you want to get on my waiting list it will cost a $10k ADM. If someone agrees to the ADM then that's a hell of a pay check for the CA. If no one signs up then it's no big deal. I can always retail the car for MSRP after it gets here.

Personally, I think that ADMs are stupid, but I'm not the manager, so I don't make the rules. I have no doubt that if you want one for MSRP you can find a HEA somewhere that no one else wants. I'm guessing that my HEA will sell for MSRP. I don't have anyone knocking down my door to pay ADM for it and I don't blame them.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Rx-7ames

This is completely plausible. We have every reason to believe there will not be very many of these cars. A low volume store like mine might only see 1 or 2 a year. If your store indeed has several people on their list then it might take 2-3 years for you to get one.



Did your CA discuss price? Did you discuss price? If not then how can you get into a bidding war. This doesn't seem very logical to me.



1) You approach a car salesman about buying a car. Then the car salesman asks you to buy a car. It seems like this is obvious and not necessarily a bad thing. 2) This also seems obvious. Client Advisors get paid commission and they want to get paid as much as they realistically can.

Both of these things are fine unless a salesperson is lying to or deceiving a client. That's never acceptable. The problem I have is when a client automatically assumes a car salesman is lying just to accomplish these things. Since you are skeptical so far of what the CA is telling you it seems like you are leaning this way. If you don't trust your CA then find someone you can trust.



This is very likely what will happen, and it's because dealerships have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Right now if you want to get on my waiting list it will cost a $10k ADM. If someone agrees to the ADM then that's a hell of a pay check for the CA. If no one signs up then it's no big deal. I can always retail the car for MSRP after it gets here.

Personally, I think that ADMs are stupid, but I'm not the manager, so I don't make the rules. I have no doubt that if you want one for MSRP you can find a HEA somewhere that no one else wants. I'm guessing that my HEA will sell for MSRP. I don't have anyone knocking down my door to pay ADM for it and I don't blame them.

My use of a bidding war was wrong. There was no actual discussion of price. I did sense (or imagined...) the salesman was hoping I'd make an offer and above MSRP.

The dealer which told me I'd wait 2 - 3 years I am pretty sure does more business than my local dealer. In 2021 the population of that area was 1,698,000. This is 4 times the population here.

At any rate I'm going to cool my jets and see how things look after the April 12 launch and beyond. I have 4 or 5 dealers bookmarked and will keep tabs on M2 arrivals and when they depart.

[F12M6MD]

Rx…

Educate us non-dealer employees on what a 10k ADM might look like for sales staff. It might shine some light on the list strategies or other arguments used for limiting access to cars at MSRP or less. I am not against people trying to put steak on their families tables every night. Thanks for your feedback.

M

[Rx-7ames]

Originally Posted by F12M6MD

Rx…

Educate us non-dealer employees on what a 10k ADM might look like for sales staff. It might shine some light on the list strategies or other arguments used for limiting access to cars at MSRP or less. I am not against people trying to put steak on their families tables every night. Thanks for your feedback.

M

A 10k ADM would be a $2500 commission at most stores. Considering my store will sell 2-3 M2s a year it would be a nice one time thing, but it wouldn't change a CA's lifestyle. I think I would rather just sell everything for MSRP and feel better about it.

From a buyer's perspective 2500 probably sounds like a huge commission, and it is. But to put it into perspective, a lot of used cars are a minimum commission. At my store that's $250. Basically nothing considering the hours that go into a single sale.

[Carefree]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

My use of a bidding war was wrong. There was no actual discussion of price. I did sense (or imagined...) the salesman was hoping I'd make an offer and above MSRP.

The dealer which told me I'd wait 2 - 3 years I am pretty sure does more business than my local dealer. In 2021 the population of that area was 1,698,000. This is 4 times the population here.

At any rate I'm going to cool my jets and see how things look after the April 12 launch and beyond. I have 4 or 5 dealers bookmarked and will keep tabs on M2 arrivals and when they depart.

I’m on 2 lists and not near the top of either. I look forward to owning the car but realize it may be a while. That’s ok. As posted in another thread, I don’t get emotional about cars. In the meantime we have a pair of spunky 240i to drive, homes east and west in the US, and travel extensively with our remaining healthy years. This may sound like heresy and no offense to all waiting but at the end of the day, it’s only a car. Okay, flamethrowers, let loose. 😁

[Rx-7ames]

Originally Posted by Carefree

I’m on 2 lists and not near the top of either. I look forward to owning the car but realize it may be a while. That’s ok. As posted in another thread, I don’t get emotional about cars. In the meantime we have a pair of spunky 240i to drive, homes east and west in the US, and travel extensively with our remaining healthy years. This may sound like heresy and no offense to all waiting but at the end of the day, it’s only a car. Okay, flamethrowers, let loose. 😁

This is the best attitude to have. You know what you want and k ow you can wait for it. You don't have to feel pressured to pay ADM and you have great cars in the meantime. It sounds like you are living your best life!

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by Carefree

I’m on 2 lists and not near the top of either. I look forward to owning the car but realize it may be a while. That’s ok. As posted in another thread, I don’t get emotional about cars. In the meantime we have a pair of spunky 240i to drive, homes east and west in the US, and travel extensively with our remaining healthy years. This may sound like heresy and no offense to all waiting but at the end of the day, it’s only a car. Okay, flamethrowers, let loose. 😁

Username checks out.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Carefree

I’m on 2 lists and not near the top of either. I look forward to owning the car but realize it may be a while. That’s ok. As posted in another thread, I don’t get emotional about cars. In the meantime we have a pair of spunky 240i to drive, homes east and west in the US, and travel extensively with our remaining healthy years. This may sound like heresy and no offense to all waiting but at the end of the day, it’s only a car. Okay, flamethrowers, let loose. 😁

No flames from me. I agree with your philosophy.

Which is why I have decided to just wait and see how things unroll.

Sure I want the car. And I feel I'll get a car just not as soon as I had hoped.

In the meantime my 230i is a very nice drive. I'm not suffering...

[RockCrusher]

A day or two ago I was contacted by a dealer with a M2 arriving soon and wanting to know if I wanted the car?

Uh, Hell Yeah doesn't quite emphasize it enough...

But then comes the dealer add ons...Window tint: $699. Nitro filled tires: $199. Door edge guards: $299.

Dealer relented on the tint but says the nitro filled tires and door edge guards are "required". Umm, I said the car doesn't come with that stuff so just don't install it and I'm good.

Oh it was indicated that the trade in offer for my 2022 BMW 230i with less than 7K miles (and 3 BMW dealer service department oil/filter services -- the last one done Oct 6, 2022 at 5470 miles which the odometer currently at 6766 miles (or not quite 1300 miles more since then) none of which used up any of the free scheduled oil/filter services) could be upped.

Dealer has agree to not collect sales tax. BMW doesn't require sale tax be collected on cars not financed. And since I will pay cash (via a trade in and a personal check for the balance I'm not financing the car.

So maybe I'll have a car after I think the dealer said it could sell/deliver the car to me April 15.

Maybe.

We'll see.

Added: Forgot to mention this but I was assured there are no test drives of M vehicles. Said I could ride along with salesman when he drives the car to fill up the fuel tank and thus observe the car how it steers and brakes. What I'm looking for is any pulling or wandering from a possible wonky alignment or braking issue.

Bought a new Porsche with out a test ride/drive and on the drive home realized the car had an alignment problem which I had to then arrange to bring the car back and get the alignment sorted. Important the M2 be right as I'll be 200+ miles from the dealer when I get home.

A bit harder to assess the clutch action and shifter action but I think I will (probably) be fine.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Rx-7ames

A 10k ADM would be a $2500 commission at most stores. Considering my store will sell 2-3 M2s a year it would be a nice one time thing, but it wouldn't change a CA's lifestyle. I think I would rather just sell everything for MSRP and feel better about it.

From a buyer's perspective 2500 probably sounds like a huge commission, and it is. But to put it into perspective, a lot of used cars are a minimum commission. At my store that's $250. Basically nothing considering the hours that go into a single sale.

My FIL sold cars. Said he made good money selling new cars. Better money selling used cars. Made tons of money selling RVs...

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

A day or two ago I was contacted by a dealer with a M2 arriving soon and wanting to know if I wanted the car?

Uh, Hell Yeah doesn't quite emphasize it enough...

But then comes the dealer add ons...Window tint: $699. Nitro filled tires: $199. Door edge guards: $299.

Dealer relented on the tint but says the nitro filled tires and door edge guards are "required". Umm, I said the car doesn't come with that stuff so just don't install it and I'm good.

Oh it was indicated that the trade in offer for my 2022 BMW 230i with less than 7K miles (and 3 BMW dealer service department oil/filter services -- the last one done Oct 6, 2022 at 5470 miles which the odometer currently at 6766 miles (or not quite 1300 miles more since then) none of which used up any of the free scheduled oil/filter services) could be upped.

Dealer has agree to not collect sales tax. BMW doesn't require sale tax be collected on cars not financed. And since I will pay cash (via a trade in and a personal check for the balance I'm not financing the car.

So maybe I'll have a car after I think the dealer said it could sell/deliver the car to me April 15.

Maybe.

We'll see.

Added: Forgot to mention this but I was assured there are no test drives of M vehicles. Said I could ride along with salesman when he drives the car to fill up the fuel tank and thus observe the car how it steers and brakes. What I'm looking for is any pulling or wandering from a possible wonky alignment or braking issue.

Bought a new Porsche with out a test ride/drive and on the drive home realized the car had an alignment problem which I had to then arrange to bring the car back and get the alignment sorted. Important the M2 be right as I'll be 200+ miles from the dealer when I get home.

A bit harder to assess the clutch action and shifter action but I think I will (probably) be fine.

No new car leaves a dealer for me without a full alignment. Factory alignment is enough to get it out the door. Every new BMW or other marque was out, not terribly but needed an alignment to be book perfect. Only 1 dealer here in Germany ever slightly hesitated.

They checked and sure enough my new 14 M235i was not at spec. Close but it was able to be refined. Never ever take a car that is not perfect if new. Never. Its your money!

[RockCrusher]

The add ons are now off!

Paperwork coming via email. Price is MSRP ($68,195) plus $399 admin fee. Trade in offer upped by $1000.

Was asked to provide a $2000 deposit but I balked -- first deposit ever! -- and salesman said he'd see if a $1000 deposit -- paid via major credit card -- would be acceptable.

Salesman not sure when the BMW embargo comes off the car but as soon as the HEA cars can be delivered to a buyer I'm heading up that day.

New pricing details coming along with a request for a copy of my driver's license, proof of insurance, and details on how to submit deposit.

I was assured the car will not be test driven/no demo rides. Just driven of the truck and then after the ink is dry a mile to the gas station to fill the fuel tank.

Still possible the deal to go off the rails. But I feel pretty confident on my end I will move forward subject to review of the new price details numbers. And I don't think the dealer will risk a quick sale for any reason.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

A day or two ago I was contacted by a dealer with a M2 arriving soon and wanting to know if I wanted the car?

Uh, Hell Yeah doesn't quite emphasize it enough...

But then comes the dealer add ons...Window tint: $699. Nitro filled tires: $199. Door edge guards: $299.

Dealer relented on the tint but says the nitro filled tires and door edge guards are "required". Umm, I said the car doesn't come with that stuff so just don't install it and I'm good.

Oh it was indicated that the trade in offer for my 2022 BMW 230i with less than 7K miles (and 3 BMW dealer service department oil/filter services -- the last one done Oct 6, 2022 at 5470 miles which the odometer currently at 6766 miles (or not quite 1300 miles more since then) none of which used up any of the free scheduled oil/filter services) could be upped.

Dealer has agree to not collect sales tax. BMW doesn't require sale tax be collected on cars not financed. And since I will pay cash (via a trade in and a personal check for the balance I'm not financing the car.

So maybe I'll have a car after I think the dealer said it could sell/deliver the car to me April 15.

Maybe.

We'll see.

Added: Forgot to mention this but I was assured there are no test drives of M vehicles. Said I could ride along with salesman when he drives the car to fill up the fuel tank and thus observe the car how it steers and brakes. What I'm looking for is any pulling or wandering from a possible wonky alignment or braking issue.

Bought a new Porsche with out a test ride/drive and on the drive home realized the car had an alignment problem which I had to then arrange to bring the car back and get the alignment sorted. Important the M2 be right as I'll be 200+ miles from the dealer when I get home.

A bit harder to assess the clutch action and shifter action but I think I will (probably) be fine.

I'm paying for ceramic tint at dealer and nitrogen and bs. It is what it is, I want my car. Care about it.