[ronin13013]

Bro.

Originally Posted by ourlee

Hi Thomas, I’m a big fan and enjoy how you boys do your thing. TH looks agenda free and has access to tons more cars than I ever will. Your opinions def guide, not decide, what I buy. Cheers for showing up here.

[Mike_H_]

Originally Posted by zero21

$50 they overplayed this (naturally - views), to seem more cool and "edgy" and actually just ended up looking like jackasses.

I was thinking pretty much the same thing, trying so hard to be different just for the sake of being different, when it's pointless.

I'm happy with the M240ix, I won't even consider stepping up to an M2 unless BMW releases an xDrive version, but I'm interested in the car and want honest evaluations of it, not the clown show TH put out.

[SW19]

Originally Posted by ronin13013

Bro.

[KC87ZB]

Hey Thomas, thanks for showing up and defending your review. I have watched many reviews by you and James and find them entertaining if not always accurate.

My main issue with your 30mph full throttle in 4th gear is that it bagged on the transmission more than the engine. You should have performed the same thing in the automatic (manual) mode in 5th gear. You need to go back and watch your review again.

That said, and I haven't driven one yet, you are likely bang on with the power delivery. You are comparing a twin scroll single turbo to a dual turbo setup and the dual is going to have quite a bit more lag so you nailed that one. You should have commented that the dual turbo setup has way more performance potential than the dual scroll your M2 has.

Be on spot with your mechanical understanding, it would go a long way.

[MmmmmM2]

You guys realize Thomas probably has a lot to do and most likely will not be answering your responses. I'm not trying to be a downer, but be happy that he took the time to talk to all of us.

Thanks Thomas and TH! From one LBB M2 to another!

[M3R1]

Originally Posted by Throttle House Thomas

Hey Everyone, Thomas from Throttle House here. Our review of the M2 was very thoroughly thought out, and we stand by the things we said. Drop your questions here and I'll try to answer them.
To address one thing re: lugging the engine in 4th. We also did the same in second gear the moment before and you can see how unresponsive the powertrain is at low revs. The 4th gear pull was just a way of REALLY showing it off. For reference my OG M2 pulls hard almost immediately at lower revs. Off boost turbocharged motors feel really dull. And the amount of off-boost in this engine is much larger than normal. But feel free to respond and Ill partake in discussion!

Hey Thomas,
I love all of your videos. As a former 2 time E46 M3 owner, a supercharged E92 M3, a M2c, and now a M2cs owner I am a shameless BMW guy. I love that you are jumping in and interacting with the masses, this really makes me respect you even more! Please ignore the haters and keep making content as always.

BTW, I loved the 2 M2cs video's!

[ourlee]

Originally Posted by ronin13013

Bro.

What can I say lol

[W///]

Originally Posted by zero21

No, I haven't driven one - there aren't any test drives available even if I wanted to.

This is pretty much the exact opposite of what everyone says in the forums about having crap tons of torque everywhere and launching from any RPM.

This is absolutely not what I've been reading about for six months.

Here's data to back up what a bunch of us that have driven both extensively are saying:


Here's another thread from people that actually own or have owned both engines:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1958731

As I said, the only combo I haven't tried is an S58 with a 6MT, but it's not going to be better in this dept than the 8AT.

Having said that, I have 0 interest in owning the 8AT, especially not in an M2. If I were to get an G8x, I would still take the 6MT regardless.

Summary: S55 has better low end torque (some complain that's too spikey), S58 has better top end (some complain lack of low end).

Hope this helps.

[Click_ID]

Originally Posted by Throttle House Thomas

Hey Everyone, Thomas from Throttle House here. Our review of the M2 was very thoroughly thought out, and we stand by the things we said. Drop your questions here and I'll try to answer them.
To address one thing re: lugging the engine in 4th. We also did the same in second gear the moment before and you can see how unresponsive the powertrain is at low revs. The 4th gear pull was just a way of REALLY showing it off. For reference my OG M2 pulls hard almost immediately at lower revs. Off boost turbocharged motors feel really dull. And the amount of off-boost in this engine is much larger than normal. But feel free to respond and Ill partake in discussion!

Thanks for putting your foot down against these manufacturers' PR teams. It's refreshing to see 1 review that doesn't look the same as every other creator in your place.

It looks like your Channel is the only team that isn't using Chat GPT to write your scripts.

Oh, and thanks for shitting all over my new car. Not cool man... I'm really butt hurt about it.

[Ronin76]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

No. They're full of shit.

I actually like their reviews.

[ESB]

Here is a very scientific comparison between James's pulls and my attempts to recreate them in my M2C:

My conclusion: 2nd gear pull seems about the same (though upon closer inspection my revs reach 5k when James's reaches 4k ... but basically same speed) and the F87 clearly beats Throttle House's G87 on the 4th gear pull. But, with all that said, even on the F87 I'd say these pulls started kinda lame (especially the 4th gear one). I always try to keep my RPMs above 2k because I know that below 2K I just don't get the best performance. Earlier Thomas said that in the G87 its dead under 3.5k which ... I hope he's exaggerating because thats certainly not the case with the F87. I'm really curious to hear from the people who will be picking up their G87s in the coming days/weeks.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by Ronin76

I actually like their reviews.

Fortunately there's lots of influencers to follow we can pick from.

[dominoM]

Sorry I don't follow TH reviews much. Maybe a lot of the other reviewers/journalists have driven many M3/M4s and knew what to expect with the S58/MT, and therefore would never try that 3rd/4th gear test/stunt and wouldn't be that surprised if they did? I'm not trying to be mean. Just thinking out loud. This whole thing has kind of spiraled out of control.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by skyline408

If the gearing is the same on the G80 and G87, then the test is even more ridiculous. It's just not a normal scenario by any stretch of the imagination. No idea why they choose to highlight this.

If it's any consolation, those with G87 6MT orders shouldn't worry at all - the G80 6MT has been an absolute blast to drive and I find very little fault in both gearing and low RPM performance.

The gear ratios are identical on the G80/82/87.

Six-speed manual
Gear ratios
I :1 4.111
II :1 2.315
III :1 1.542
IV :1 1.179
V :1 1.000
VI :1 0.846
R :1 3.727
Final drive :1 3.462

Sources:
G80 M3 - Specifications (PDF)
G82 M4 - Specifications (PDF)
G87 M2 - Specifications (PDF) Note: G87 MT gear ratios are in parathesis

[sl0m0]

Originally Posted by dominoM

Sorry I don't follow TH reviews much. Maybe a lot of the other reviewers/journalists have driven many M3/M4s and knew what to expect with the S58/MT, and therefore would never try that 3rd/4th gear test/stunt and wouldn't be that surprised if they did? I'm not trying to be mean. Just thinking out loud. This whole thing has kind of spiraled out of control.

I agree this has spiraled. Thomas himself has clearly explained that this outcome should be 100% expected based on the gearing and power curve. Seems like this was exploited. I have just learned from this whole experience to not be an idiot and shift into 4th while not at an appropriate speed or rpm to do so. It seems that if you drive the 6mt appropriately this would be a non-issue.

[BRAKE!]

I like throttle house reviews. I loved their g82 M4 skit as well, for those that haven’t seen it, it’s funny.

I kinda felt that this car wouldn’t gain the same kind of recognition as the previous gen car. Hell, none of the new BMWs have done well in the reviews and that is due to this “new direction” BMW has chosen to go. Ever since they released the G8X, it’s been kinda funky.

Having said that, this is still an amazing car from the new generation. Sure it may look a little blocky and drive in a less twitchy manner than its F series counterpart, but within the new M range, it’s the best BMW that BMW offers imo. It still has all the ingredients of BMW; small-er grills, hofmeister kink, bulldog stance, 3 box design, and a manual.

Interestingly, when I was at the BMW M school in 21, I got to drive a new M4 vs the F87 M2. The M2 felt more raw while the G82 drove in a more insulated way. However, on track, this meant that I could drive the G82 for longer without tiring out and because it wasn’t so rear end happy, I actually had more fun setting lap times. I walked away thinking that the G chassis was a better car to drive than the F chassis car because they felt safer at faster speeds and that it would be a much better daily too. Lastly, both cars had great oversteer/drift modes that were easy to control. It was easier to induce oversteer in the M2 than the M4, but once you had proper vision and got used to the throttle input needed, both were easy to control.

I can see why many reviewers lament the more mature character of the new car, especially if you’re looking for a raw experience, but the more stable platform actually could mean more fun for those who aren’t looking to break traction every time they want to go fast. The previous gen had too much play at the rear and this led to a lot of accidents. Remember all those sudden acceleration-snap oversteer accidents with the F8x cars when they first came out? How much fun was that?

It’s just one review and quite frankly they did point out a lot of pertinent things, damning or not. I actually liked their review. There were others who praised it, so it’s all a matter of personal preference. No need to get too butt-hurt about it.

[BimmerMat135]

For the low end torque topic it was the case on the G80 m/t as well they sacrificed the low end power in favor of the high end power to give more of a « N/A » feel. For folks like me living in cold climate this might have an advantage on slippery surfaces. Considering the weight of that thing the carbon roof should have been standard not an option. Also, with the F80 earlier example there was a carbon shaft available this should be back.

[zero21]

I'm glad I went to bed early last night.

I got about as needlessly upset with their video as Thomas did about the design.

Apologies to the forum members reading my less than tasteful posts, and to ThrottleHouse for needless name-calling; usually I'm more tasteful. Everyone has a Clarkson moment I guess.

[moodyhank82]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

For the low end torque topic it was the case on the G80 m/t as well they sacrificed the low end power in favor of the high end power to give more of a « N/A » feel. For folks like me living in cold climate this might have an advantage on slippery surfaces.

Agreed, it should make life easier when one intends to drive slowly and cautiously due to cold and slippery surface conditions.

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by baron95

In general, I like Throttle House, and find them informative and entertaining.

But their review of the M2 was outright disrespectful and out of line - specially the segment on the M2's appearance.

I get it that they were trying to be "Jeremy Clarkson funny", but they don't know how to pull it off. When the BMW team puts such effort in delivering an enthusiast small coupe, fighting all the market trends, to have 2 dudes make crass and baseless comments on the appearance is just over the line. Commenting on the looks of the fronts of BMWs was original 3 years ago. Now it is just boring.

They should be put on the freezer by BMW and excluded from future press cars until they change their ways.

There is a way to be constructively critical. There is a way to funny. That review was not it. Shame.

Consider the context. James did mention that they have been critical of BMW's recent stylings in the past (e.g., the beaver grilles) and BMW responded with stern warnings from BMW "head honchos from Munich" to cool it.

Any media organization (outside Russia or China) would not take heed to these 'threats' and so TH responded in a way they know best - poke fun at it by exaggerating their critique even more. This essentially (and rightly) tells those in Munich what they think of their warning. It's a proper response IMO and totally within TH character.

[Humdizzle]

i was looking for more info on why TH said what they said about low end power.

interesting tidbit from car and driver. they do a top gear passing test 30-50mph and 50-70mph in 6th gear for manual cars

2016 OG M2 manual
5-60mph: 4.7
30-50 - 5.7
50-70 - 4.7

2021 M4 manual
5-60: 4.7
30-50: 7.6
50-70: 6.4

there are two ways to think about it. You could say 'damn, i gotta downshift to make this pass on the highway' or 'yes i get it downshift and rev this thing out'

no wrong answer. just is what it is

[Tag]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

i was looking for more info on why TH said what they said about low end power.

interesting tidbit from car and driver. they do a top gear passing test 30-50mph and 50-70mph in 6th gear for manual cars

2016 OG M2 manual
5-60mph: 4.7
30-50 - 5.7
50-70 - 4.7

2021 M4 manual
5-60: 4.7
30-50: 7.6
50-70: 6.4

there are two ways to think about it. You could say 'damn, i gotta downshift to make this pass on the highway' or 'yes i get it downshift and rev this thing out'

no wrong answer. just is what it is

The MT in both the F87 M2/M2C also have exactly the same gear ratios as the G8x. No surprise there since the MT is a direct carry over. Seems the S58 isn't tuned to have as much low end torque when compared to the F87.