[Rdurty2]

Originally Posted by TJZ67201

Has anyone tried the MST downpipe?

Not sure if it’s just the audio in the videos I watched, but the AA dp sounds a bit too raspy for me. Just saw a demo of the MST dp and it sounds a bit closer to stock sounding without the raspy/rattley sound. Can anyone with AA chime in on the sound, particularly during cold start?

Zero rasp here with AA. Don’t judge exhaust parts based on their 10 second cold start sound. That is just silly as it lasts literally seconds and is not what it sounds like under load at all.

[Sonic RR]

Originally Posted by G42M240

I ordered mine from Extreme Power House. Can't wait to get it installed!

+1



Sonic

[G42M240]

Installed the AA catted DP yesterday. Slightly louder, no issues. Highly recommend.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by G42M240

Installed the AA catted DP yesterday. Slightly louder, no issues. Highly recommend.

Congrats!

[dasistato]

I had mine for a while now. I love it.

[nype]

Learning about modding my new G42. Just got it a week ago. Coming from VW/Audi land where upgrading the downpipe is a part of going “stage 2”, and also typically involves an ECU tune.

It seems like it’s mostly a sound improvement option here, somewhat cheaper than a rear exhaust section upgrade. I may be wrong.

Is there no tune involved/necessary when upgrading the dp on these cars?

Are you not more likely to have warranty claim issues with a dp upgrade vs say an axle back upgrade?

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by nype

Learning about modding my new G42. Just got it a week ago. Coming from VW/Audi land where upgrading the downpipe is a part of going “stage 2”, and also typically involves an ECU tune.

1. It seems like it’s mostly a sound improvement option here, somewhat cheaper than a rear exhaust section upgrade. I may be wrong.

2. Is there no tune involved/necessary when upgrading the dp on these cars?

3. Are you not more likely to have warranty claim issues with a dp upgrade vs say an axle back upgrade?

1. Definitely more than a sound upgrade, especially when you combine with JB4 or JB+.

2. No tune required if not wanted. You thinking old school.

3. Absolutely

[nype]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

1. Definitely more than a sound upgrade, especially when you combine with JB4 or JB+.

2. No tune required if not wanted. You thinking old school.

3. Absolutely

Well ya, my previous car was a stage 2 MK7 GTI. A bit old school.

I'm guessing BMW has locked down the ECU/TCU as well as they have with iDrive 8, making piggybacks like JB4 the only tuning option?

Sorry for the thread hijacking...

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by nype

Well ya, my previous car was a stage 2 MK7 GTI. A bit old school.

I'm guessing BMW has locked down the ECU/TCU as well as they have with iDrive 8, making piggybacks like JB4 the only tuning option?

Sorry for the thread hijacking...

the piggybacks are the only option if you are not willing to ship your DME to Finland

[PNTDG42]

Originally Posted by nype

Well ya, my previous car was a stage 2 MK7 GTI. A bit old school.

I'm guessing BMW has locked down the ECU/TCU as well as they have with iDrive 8, making piggybacks like JB4 the only tuning option?

Sorry for the thread hijacking...

JB4 is not a tuner either, it is only a boost controller. Tuning requires ECU unlock in Finland.

The o2 and knock feedback in the platform is obviously very robust. Hence people can use devices like JB4 and crank the boost for big power gains while their MAP sensors are voltage clamped to prevent the ECU from even seeing actual boost; yet still the stock tuning is able to keep the motor in 1 piece, at least so long as the knock and wideband sensors are working right.

So consider that people can get away with doing that... the airflow gains from a downpipe are nothing but a drop in the bucket in comparison.. so I wouldn't worry one bit.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by PNTDG42

JB4 is not a tuner either, it is only a boost controller. Tuning requires ECU unlock in Finland.

you are mixing flash tune with tune. not all tunes are flash tunes.

the jb4 is certainly a tuner, not a simple boost controller.

the BMS stage 1 or JB+ is a boost controller, a lot of the piggybacks on the market are boost controllers. the JB4 is not one of them.

Its got so many more features. It also can make the ECU alter the timing to make more power, not just boost.

[PNTDG42]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

you are mixing flash tune with tune. not all tunes are flash tunes.

the jb4 is certainly a tuner, not a simple boost controller.

the BMS stage 1 or JB+ is a boost controller, a lot of the piggybacks on the market are boost controllers. the JB4 is not one of them.

Its got so many more features. It also can make the ECU alter the timing to make more power, not just boost.

I’m not mixing anything. Tuning is when you are either altering engine calibration directly inside the DME tables via flashing, or piggyback tuning can be done with some devices that adds secondary ignition and or fuel tables that are intercepting the coils and injection system.

The JB4 is just an electronic wastegate boost controller. You aren’t actually “tuning” anything… only in the BMW world have I seen adjusting piggyback boost tables referred to as tuning.

[PNTDG42]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

you are mixing flash tune with tune. not all tunes are flash tunes.

the jb4 is certainly a tuner, not a simple boost controller.

the BMS stage 1 or JB+ is a boost controller, a lot of the piggybacks on the market are boost controllers. the JB4 is not one of them.

Its got so many more features. It also can make the ECU alter the timing to make more power, not just boost.

Bump. Let’s see some proof that JB4 tunes ignition timing.

If you looked at the wiring for installation you can see for yourself that it would not be possible (assuming you understand how these things work).

It’s using knock feedback. Engine knock is detected and the ECU is capable of individual cylinder knock retard. It’s completely reactive self protection; not tuning.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by PNTDG42

The JB4 is just an electronic wastegate boost controller. You aren’t actually “tuning” anything… only in the BMW world have I seen adjusting piggyback boost tables referred to as tuning.

As mentioned, it's not just boost tables, you should read more about the Jb4.

Originally Posted by PNTDG42

If you looked at the wiring for installation you can see for yourself that it would not be possible (assuming you understand how these things work).

This is a car forum where everyone's got different opinions. There's no need to get defensive or resort to subtle digs. I'm approaching our conversation with respect, and I hope for the same from you. If open dialogues aren't your thing, maybe starting a blog with comments disabled.

If you wish to continue the conversation, please keep it respectful. If not then you are entitled to your opinion, and i am to mine. We don't need to be responding to each other.

Originally Posted by PNTDG42

Bump. Let’s see some proof that JB4 tunes ignition timing.

One of the ways is called max cooling, where the Jb4 alters IAT, which makes the DME increase timing. I have a full thread on this where I tested the results on my car. And you can control it using the boost limiter + the lowest IAT you wish to post.

I'm not trying to make a case that the JB4 is superior to a flash tune. My point is that the JB4 has unique features that a basic boost controller cannot replicate because its functions are limited to controlling boost alone.

Putting the Jb4 and your regular boost controller in the same category does not make sense, given how advanced the JB4 is to, let's say, the JB+. you do not need to be a tuning genius to see the difference.

[PNTDG42]

Ok you got me.

It’s not a boost controller.

It’s a boost controller that *also hacks up your IAT*.

That’s not tuning. It’s not a tuner. Installing a system that leans MORE into knock feedback and o2 feedback is bringing you further from a state of “tuned”, not closer.

You’re simply misleading the less technical people here.

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by PNTDG42

Ok you got me.

It’s not a boost controller.

It’s a boost controller that *also hacks up your IAT*.

That’s not tuning. It’s not a tuner. Installing a system that leans MORE into knock feedback and o2 feedback is bringing you further from a state of “tuned”, not closer.

You’re simply misleading the less technical people here.

The JB4 taps into the CANbus and can read every sensor in the car, which can then make a wide variety of adjustments in real-time. So it's certainly more than a "boost controller that hacks up your IAT".

Is a flash tune ideal? Of course, but here we are with some Vikings in Finland demanding ransom for our ECU.

[PNTDG42]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

One of the ways is called max cooling, where the Jb4 alters IAT, which makes the DME increase timing. I have a full thread on this where I tested the results on my car. And you can control it using the boost limiter + the lowest IAT you wish to post.

I googled around to find you talking about this in other threads where you’re the only person who considers it “tuning” ignition timing.

I have to agree with everyone else. Hacking a hack inside of a hack to crudely pull 2 maybe 3 degrees of timing by lying to the DME about air temps is not tuning. It’s putting you further yet away from a state of properly tuned. You’re still leaning on your knock sensors for all your live ignition tuning. Your DME logged parameters are further and further from accurate or meaningful. It’s literally a joke to call this tuning.

[PNTDG42]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

The JB4 taps into the CANbus and can read every sensor in the car, which can then make a wide variety of adjustments in real-time. So it's certainly more than a "boost controller that hacks up your IAT".

Is a flash tune ideal? Of course, but here we are with some Vikings in Finland demanding ransom for our ECU.

The DME reads every sensor on the engine and that’s how it cleans up the mess that JB4 makes as a boost controller.

The JB4 offers logging of the DME parameters, and if it notices knock or lean conditions that are beyond the DMEs range of closed loop feedback control, it may try to correct it by adjusting boost.

That’s another boost control function. Of a boost controller with optionally hacked IAT.

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by PNTDG42

The DME reads every sensor on the engine and that’s how it cleans up the mess that JB4 makes as a boost controller.

The JB4 offers logging of the DME parameters, and if it notices knock or lean conditions that are beyond the DMEs range of closed loop feedback control, it may try to correct it by adjusting boost.

That’s another boost control function. Of a boost controller with optionally hacked IAT.

Is the dilemma here the use of the word "tune"? If so, you should Google "piggyback tune" and "piggyback tuner". It's probably just as common as using 'Kleenex' for any brand of tissue, 'Coke' for any brand of soda, and 'Jet Ski' for any brand of PWC.

Is it a flash tune? No
Does it change some of the parameters of the OEM tune? Yes, therefore it's a modified tune from the tuning parameters being requested.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by PNTDG42

I have to agree with everyone else. Hacking a hack inside of a hack to crudely pull 2 maybe 3 degrees of timing by lying to the DME about air temps is not tuning. It’s putting you further yet away from a state of properly tuned. You’re still leaning on your knock sensors for all your live ignition tuning. Your DME logged parameters are further and further from accurate or meaningful. It’s literally a joke to call this tuning.

Now you are shifting the conversation. The focus of our conversation isn't about whether the JB4's methods are superior to flash tuning or not. It is around whether the JB4 is merely a simple boost controller, like the JB+, or not.

Whether one prefers the JB4 is a different conversation and i agree with you a proper flash tune is superior. but again, that's not our conversation here.


To reiterate your statement: "it is only a boost controller." Although you are not going to admit it, this statement is wrong. The JB4 is undoubtedly more than a basic boost controller.

[PNTDG42]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

Is the dilemma here the use of the word "tune"? If so, you should Google "piggyback tune" and "piggyback tuner". It's probably just as common as using 'Kleenex' for any brand of tissue, 'Coke' for any brand of soda, and 'Jet Ski' for any brand of PWC.

Is it a flash tune? No
Does it change some of the parameters of the OEM tune? Yes, therefore it's a modified tune from the tuning parameters being requested.

I don’t need to google, I’ve worked professionally in the tuning industry since 2003. I’ve installed and tuned countless actually piggyback tuners, a few different brands of standalone, and a few different software solutions for stock ECU (flash tuning).

What you’re failing to understand is that the JB4 is not a piggyback tuner. It literally does not tune. It’s literally a boost controller. Just because it has some extra boost control tables doesn’t make it more than a boost controller. Boost controllers have never been referred to as tuners anywhere in the industry until BMS marketing.

JB4 is not tissue papers to Kleenex. JB4 is like calling a box of bandaids an EMT.

You have been grossly mislead.

You seem to not know that there is such thing as a piggyback tuner, that actually tune. Well there are, I’ve used them.


I am not here to argue if the JB4 is better or worse than tuning with a flash tune. I am here to tell you that a JB4 does not even tune! It isn’t a form of tuning at all!

[PNTDG42]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Now you are shifting the conversation. The focus of our conversation isn't about whether the JB4's methods are superior to flash tuning or not. It is around whether the JB4 is merely a simple boost controller, like the JB+, or not.

Whether one prefers the JB4 is a different conversation and i agree with you a proper flash tune is superior. but again, that's not our conversation here.


To reiterate your statement: "it is only a boost controller." Although you are not going to admit it, this statement is wrong. The JB4 is undoubtedly more than a basic boost controller.

Well, as long as you understand that it’s not a tuner, I’m satisfied. My main point from the start is that the JB4 doesn’t do any tuning other than the boost curve.

To me, that makes it just a boost controller. If it’s extra gimmicks have you feeling like you need to hold it in higher regard, well whatever.. you go right ahead.

Fact remains, the DME is using knock and o2 feedback to clean up after the JB4 took what tuning was there and threw it all out of wack.