[M3WC]

Originally Posted by baron95

Trofeo R is more like a Cup 2 R equivalent

Correct Trofeo R is a "street/comp" tire. It was just an example of what a simple tire change can do. In this case a $450 option from Audi for the RS3.

RS3 standard PZ4 tires actually have a softer compound than the PSS an PS4S. They are a great tire actually.(all considered "max perf summer" tires)

Originally Posted by baron95

(see my comment above - I may be wrong, but I think * PS4S vs * Cup 2 is much closer)

M2 comp didn't come with PS4S, the F87Comp OE tire was Michelin Pilot Super Sport. Which rides below the newer PS4S. The Cup 2's, considered an "extreme perf summer" tire...are substantially better than the old Pilot Super Sports.

[Ska8139]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

I'm not trying to, I'm just suggesting from an outsider's view you might seem to be on a bit of a crusade here, the new M2's #1 defender. Maybe consider taking a deep breath and going for a drive or something.

Some people take this way too seriously. It’s almost like you’re talking about their spouse or mom or something when you criticize a car they bought. That or start quoting 0-60mph times or lap times as justification for it being better, as if that’s why most normal folks huh their cars instead of being fun. Not everyone is going to love the car you bought. Learn to cope. It’s okay.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Tag

Throttle House Thomas,
When the F80/82 came out many didn't like the cars. It was BMWs first FI attempt on an M car; the throttle was spiky, and the chassis tuning wasn't as dialed in. When they later came out with the LCI/Competition versions BMW had reworked the powertrain and chassis tuning which completely changed the driving dynamics of the cars.

+1

[Ctothej]

Originally Posted by Covfefe

Keep in mind that the F87C measured was on stock tires and 6mt. With wider/stickier tires and the DCT, I can’t imagine the G87 has much of a lead, if any.

I laughed.

[StickyPickle]

Originally Posted by moodyhank82

Did they weigh the M2 with Thomas in it? No way it is 3,968 pounds with the carbon seats and roof as shown before the drag race.

No they didn’t weigh it. Not only did they not account for the weight savings for having a carbon fiber roof and buckets, they literally quoted the EU curb weight of the M2, not the DIN curb weight like they did with the RS3 so that’s another extra 165lbs. Fuccin clown show

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Comparing a RWD car to an AWD car always seems silly to me...

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Comparing a RWD car to a AWD car is just plain silly. And that RS3 front grill looks horrible IMO. Can't wait to see what the G87 M2 Comp & CS version does to this Audi in the near future.

[npirnia]

Originally Posted by baron95

My current street/track car is the SS1LE and the M2 is on order waiting allocation. I was hoping the M2 on similar tires would be a bit faster (1 sec on a ~1min lap), but they are essentially tied at their track.

Given the M2 is posting substantially faster 1/4 mile (so likely a lot more power) times than the 1LE, must be losing time in the corners.

That 1LE is a ZL1 1LE, not a SS 1LE. Given that the ZL1 1LE has a rated 650 bhp and significant aero, nearly matching its time is an impressive feat for the new M2.

I see that the F87CS was a bit quicker, but also just a few hundredths of their time for the latest M5 CS - clearly that M2CS was having a good day.

-Nick

[Davil]

Originally Posted by baron95

Just as well.

From my understanding the PS4S BMW * spec on the G8X is more sticky than the vanilla PS4S and the opposite is the case with the Cup 2 BMW * spec - less stick than the vanilla Cup 2s. I think the * PS4S to *Cup 2 difference is not that great. Am I wrong?

You are right. The star spec Cup 2 is a fast road tyre. The star spec 4S is nothing like the standard 4S and the difference between them is not great.

Re the Cup 2, if you live in a warmer climate it’s great. Not that bad in the rain either. I think the only struggle is very cold temps and rain. Very rare down here but I did once drive it in 8°C (46F - our definition of freezing) and rain. That was a bit slippery but just don’t be an idiot and you are ok.

Finally. Great video as always from Throttle House. Love their work.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Davil

You are right. The star spec Cup 2 is a fast road tyre. The star spec 4S is nothing like the standard 4S and the difference between them is not great.

Re the Cup 2, if you live in a warmer climate it’s great. Not that bad in the rain either. I think the only struggle is very cold temps and rain. Very rare down here but I did once drive it in 8°C (46F - our definition of freezing) and rain. That was a bit slippery but just don’t be an idiot and you are ok.

Finally. Great video as always from Throttle House. Love their work.

There are at least 3 versions of the Cup 2, with Star Spec rated tyres in G87 sizes for 2 of the versions.

The Cup 2 240 (240 TW) Star Spec is only an Extreme Performance category of tyre, this is an RE71RS competitor. I think this is the optional tyre in some markets for the G87.

For the Track/R category of tyre, the Cup 2 R Track Connect (140 TW) has Star Spec rated tyres, too - this is the Trofeo R competitor. This may be the G87 optional tyre in some markets.


The Cup 2 (180 TW) doesn’t seem to have Star Spec sizes for the G87.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by StickyPickle

No they didn’t weigh it. Not only did they not account for the weight savings for having a carbon fiber roof and buckets, they literally quoted the EU curb weight of the M2, not the DIN curb weight like they did with the RS3 so that’s another extra 165lbs. Fuccin clown show

Luckily, C&D have done their review now, so I don't need to rely on sloppy ytube influencers for statistics. (C&D published a weight range of 3750–3850 lb, which also matches up with forumgoers who have weighed their cars.)

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by mirob

The quoted weight they have for the M2 can't be right, right?!? That's what an M3CX weighs.

It is not correct. The only way you get that number is to use the EU curb weight math (which adds 75kg, or 165 lb), rather than the traditional DIN.

There are endless, endless official and semi-official sources that put the weight at approx. 3850 lb at most. Less with carbon bits and manual transmission. Also there are people in this forum who have weighed their cars.

In no universe is this car over 3900 lb.

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by Chet for short

The G87 was on cup2s. They don't specify any soft compound tire with the F87C's time. That might have been part of the difference.

1:11.19 vs 1:13.53...I'm sure DCT and Cup2s on the F87C would have narrowed the margin somewhat, the question is by how much?

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

When talking about a second or two difference, I'd think the Auto having the additional gears and being faster to change between them might very well add up. A 6MT would potentially lose a second or two?

Really depends on the track. I think if there are longer straights, then perhaps it would be closer. With twists and turns, the need to be in the right torque band out of a corner will help the auto out. And obviously the shorter the track, the less time the auto has to increase its lead.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

This is my 3rd manual M car (F80, F87C, G87) and I absolutely love it. The car is a huge step up from the F series and an absolute gem to drive with the 6 speed. The transmission is really enjoyable and the car is fast as all hell.
Here's my hot take:
1. The car is a rocket. It is significantly faster than a F87 when you get into power band. The thing is, the power bands are simply tuned differently in the two cars (one is for low/mid range while the other is mid/upper range).
2. The car handles much better than the F87 (front end grip is great, the back end grip is progressive). It's not like the F87 handled bad or anything, it's a great car that is super enjoyable to drive, pure even. It's just that the G87 simply has more grip and you can extract more out of it.
3. The overall quality of the car is higher.
4. It's priced like a Cayman but competes with the 911 (2 door coupe with 4 seats, 6 speed manual, small-ish, RWD, comes with carbon buckets, both have 6 cylinder turbo motors, both German, etc...)

Frankly, if you can drive one, drive one, the car is a 10/10.

Well, maybe it competes with a base 911. I would say the Cayman GTS is its more natural competitor but of course that’s still more expensive too.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by babym_gen

Nobody is gonna point out the new M2 is faster than the C8 Corvette? Their track rewards agility more than power and high speed stability, so it's good to see that the M2 wasn't too hampered down by its weight.

With that being said, I still struggle how the RS4 is lighter than the M2. It's AWD + 4 doors. What makes the M2/M4 so heavy? Extra bracing for structural rigidity? Bigger heavier engine?

How is it faster than a C8? I would say it’s performance is more comparable to a base C7.

[StickyPickle]

Originally Posted by Squidget

It is not correct. The only way you get that number is to use the EU curb weight math (which adds 75kg, or 165 lb), rather than the traditional DIN.

There are endless, endless official and semi-official sources that put the weight at approx. 3850 lb at most. Less with carbon bits and manual transmission. Also there are people in this forum who have weighed their cars.

In no universe is this car over 3900 lb.

They chose to use the EU curb weight for the M2 and the DIN weight for the RS3 in the same graphic, fuccin hilarious

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by Sherlock997

From what I understood they didn't run the RS3 twice but waited until they had the Trofeo R tires on the car to do a lap on a different day to even the playing field. But I can understand where Thomas is coming from. Is the new one overall a better daily driver and a more usable upscale car while being faster than the F87 Comp? Yes. Does it provide as much feedback through steering, braking, and transmission? For him, it is a no and is where his hangup really is.

I am going to preface this by saying my experience is from driving a G80 M3 Comp x-drive around town and on some backroads and having previously driven an N55 F87 M2. The M3 for me wasn't really anything special driving around town and felt like a normal car with a stiff chassis and I couldn't really figure out the point of the car over an M340 besides being obscenely fast in a straight line. That was until I threw it down a backroad and the car truly came alive, but I had to be doing stupid speeds for the street to get the car to communicate the way I wanted it to whereas the F87 just had a feeling of being connected to the road all the time. The G80's steering while being incredibly sharp and precise doesn't have all that much feedback in translating what the front wheels are doing unless you're near the limit and even then it's not by a huge amount. The braking feels like I am driving a car through a set of very good load cell sim racing pedals. From what I gather from all these reviews the G87 M2 has a better turn-in with a slightly stiffer chassis than the G80 but overall has the same "feel". I am hoping to be able to drive a G87 before I get mine allocated/built and am curious if this is true or if it truly is a different experience and I eat my words.

For myself, I cannot find another new car in the 60k range that matches its performance and usability. It is the ideal drive to your local track, set a blisteringly fast lap time, and drive home in comfort car while still having the space, tech, and comfort to be a daily driver for the price. And because the G87 seems to have a lot of potential I am willing to give up a little bit of the driving feeling and have a faster car. I briefly considered an F87 Comp but a used one with low miles for 60k and running the risk of spinning the crank hub was a no-thanks for me.

Also, how do I add Cup2 tires to my build for no additional cost?

This is an accurate assessment of the G8x generation.

I echo the “feels like a videogame” sentiment. I mean it as a compliment. The ZF8 car in Sport Plus engine and chassis config and transmission shifts on 3 (max) feels like an incredibly fun 6DOF full motion racing simulator. The brawny acceleration, strong braking, precise steering, super-obedient handling (that *will* step out on you if you boot it), visceral shifts, and just-right exhaust sound and tone all together make this a very entertaining car to hustle around like a toy. The excellent HUD and digital instrumentation cap it all off. As someone who grew up on endless hours of Gran Turismo with force feedback Logitech steering wheels, it’s awesome. It all feels safe and comfortable and predictable. And at $70k, it’s actually cheaper than a legit full-motion sim rig.

It’s the combo of excellent acceleration, braking, handling, technology, sound, comfort, bodywork, and quality at this price that works for me. This kind of experience can be had elsewhere but with some blend of greater price, more compromises, or less capability. I think BMW M handed enthusiasts a gem with this base G87 (imagine the Comp, CS, or CSL).

[M3R1]

Originally Posted by baron95

My current street/track car is the SS1LE and the M2 is on order waiting allocation. I was hoping the M2 on similar tires would be a bit faster (1 sec on a ~1min lap), but they are essentially tied at their track.

Given the M2 is posting substantially faster 1/4 mile (so likely a lot more power) times than the 1LE, must be losing time in the corners.

Overall still psyched to see what it can do on the tracks I drive.

P.S. I thought it would be faster than the M2CS (more tire, S58, better front end). A bit disappointed it was not.

I owned a 2018 SS1LE, it was dynamically awesome. I am sure you will love the performance for the G87! I laugh at all of the guys on these forums that boast about how great a particular model is, while putting down the other. All of the cars at the top of their list are phenomenal cars and all should be celebrated as such. Whatever goes into your selection process, you can't go wrong with any of them.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by M2siast

And why would you say that when the lap time for the M2 was quicker than the C8’s?

I just saw their list, so arguably I would just say it’s up to the driver and track at that point. But typically I believe a C8 would beat an M2. Not poopooing on the M2 result which is impressive.

[overcooked]

That inline 5 in RS3 is a master piece. However everything else in that car is meh…
Especially that haldex awd system that’s basically a FWD 90% of the time, terrible terrible terrible.

[DocWeatherington]

Bring on the Comp and CS versions ....


The M2 will only get better in time