[truekumar]

Originally Posted by c1pher

This is a more nuanced version of what I said. And yes, if you can, get a Porsche lol.

I’d love to get the Porsche 992! It is actually my dream car! But just not sure about the rear seat space for them as they grow, they are 11 & 7 years old. My wife is only 5ft, so maybe she could ride in the back…whilst my eldest sits up front? But for how long could I carry on doing this? Hmmmm….

[truekumar]

Is anyone else on here deliberating between the 992 and a G87? Anyone with two kids? I’d love to hear your thoughts!

I really want to keep my next car until at least my eldest son turns 16. So another 5 years. I know kids grow quickly but since I’m only 5ft8 and my wife only 5ft…we want to look at something more exotic for our weekend car…rather than a typical suv.

[imduder]

I traded my 2019 Giullia QV in for a BMW M2 one month ago today. I also owned a Stelvio QV for about 6 months. I still own a 4C Spider after 7 years. The 4C is the longest I've owned any car.

I have not had one problem with my Alfas. The 4C is a 2016, and I'm the first owner. I was the second owner of the Giulia. I owned it 3.5 years, no problems. From what I've read and heard, the first-year Giulias can have gremlins. Of course, that also is when cars were being sent to magazines. But later years are pretty solid. Stelvio came a year or two after the Giulia, so it avoided some of the early problems. Look for a 2020 or 2021 or a new model with the carbon seats.

My Alfa dealer is part of a huge network, so I had no problems. All service is done at the same shop as Maserati and Ferrari. Of course, the service is expensive at the dealer. Giulia QVs have a belt change at 3 or 4 years. 4Cs have a bolt tightening every 12k miles. Neither is cheap.

Why did I get rid of my Giulia? I change cars every few years, and it felt like time. I've been wanting a manual transmission. The Giulia was coming off warranty and needed the belt change. And, I found a dealer selling a manual transmission M2 at MSRP.

The Giulia has better steering. It sounds better. The engine feels more exotic, although it might not be as good. Overall, it is a more playful car. The M2 has the better transmission (manual). Better brake pedal. More graphics and screens. It's probably better. Without the 6 speed, it would not be as fun.

The ideal for me would be the Giulia, with the 6 speed, and free maintenance.

[truekumar]

Originally Posted by imduder

I traded my 2019 Giullia QV in for a BMW M2 one month ago today. I also owned a Stelvio QV for about 6 months. I still own a 4C Spider after 7 years. The 4C is the longest I've owned any car.

I have not had one problem with my Alfas. The 4C is a 2016, and I'm the first owner. I was the second owner of the Giulia. I owned it 3.5 years, no problems. From what I've read and heard, the first-year Giulias can have gremlins. Of course, that also is when cars were being sent to magazines. But later years are pretty solid. Stelvio came a year or two after the Giulia, so it avoided some of the early problems. Look for a 2020 or 2021 or a new model with the carbon seats.

My Alfa dealer is part of a huge network, so I had no problems. All service is done at the same shop as Maserati and Ferrari. Of course, the service is expensive at the dealer. Giulia QVs have a belt change at 3 or 4 years. 4Cs have a bolt tightening every 12k miles. Neither is cheap.

Why did I get rid of my Giulia? I change cars every few years, and it felt like time. I've been wanting a manual transmission. The Giulia was coming off warranty and needed the belt change. And, I found a dealer selling a manual transmission M2 at MSRP.

The Giulia has better steering. It sounds better. The engine feels more exotic, although it might not be as good. Overall, it is a more playful car. The M2 has the better transmission (manual). Better brake pedal. More graphics and screens. It's probably better. Without the 6 speed, it would not be as fun.

The ideal for me would be the Giulia, with the 6 speed, and free maintenance.

My thoughts exactly. How do you feel in regards to the looks and design of the Gulia over the M2? Did driving the Gulia feel a-lot more ‘special’ for you than the M2?

[imduder]

Originally Posted by truekumar

My thoughts exactly. How do you feel in regards to the looks and design of the Gulia over the M2? Did driving the Gulia feel a-lot more ‘special’ for you than the M2?

The Giulia is more classically pretty. The M2 is more distinct. Looks are subjective. Both look good to me, which was/is enough.

Alfa nailed the engine and steering feel on the Giulia. The remainder felt a bit rushed. Overall, it is a great drive. I thought it was the best car in the segment when it came out. But it isn't so unique that it can't be replaced or beat, especially if you weigh some of the cons.

I special ordered a M4 F82 when they came out. I agonized over the options and watched as it crossed the ocean. The M4 was a dream car for me. About a year later, I drove the Alfa 4C. I traded my M4 on the spot. My wife didn't understand. I explained the F82 was great but replaceable. BMW would make a better version; so would competitors. The 4C was a combination that I didn't see coming around again. My experience with Giulia is like the M4. It is a great car. I had loads of fun, enjoyed every minute, and miss parts of it. But I don't worry that I traded something irreplaceable.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by truekumar

Is anyone else on here deliberating between the 992 and a G87? Anyone with two kids? I’d love to hear your thoughts!

I really want to keep my next car until at least my eldest son turns 16. So another 5 years. I know kids grow quickly but since I’m only 5ft8 and my wife only 5ft…we want to look at something more exotic for our weekend car…rather than a typical suv.

I looked at a few 991.2s and the rear was just way too small for my 3 year old. Maybe in an emergency but I wouldn’t want to rely on it

[Fugly M3]

Reviving this thread because I sold my G80CX and am considering an Alfa QV. Separate story, it was hit and I couldn't live with it. So I disclosed it and got an amazing price and am moving on. I put an M2 on order with a 6MT because I missed that but in the interim I am falling for the Alfa. The discounts are huge on leftover '23 models - I think I could get $20k off here at the end of the year. I've read the reliability is far superior to what it used to be, but it does still scare me a bit. That said, the BMWs have lost their soul and the new iDrive is just objectively terrible. Supposed to go drive a QV tomorrow and will report back what my thoughts are.

[ttaidapos]

I've had 2 MY18 Alfas, QV and non QV. Still have the QV.

I recommend every car enthusiast to own one QV in their lifetime, specifically the Giorgio platform. Reliable YES. Are dealers reliable? MAYBE. Looking at the forums here for a while, issues are no different. There's some bad seeds but for the most part, trouble free. I haven't driven my M2 much but the connection you have with the car and the road is unreal. If you live close to the dealer and they have a good rating, pull the trigger. As others said, end of year sales are legit. You can pick one up for under 70k.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by ttaidapos

I've had 2 MY18 Alfas, QV and non QV. Still have the QV.

I recommend every car enthusiast to own one QV in their lifetime, specifically the Giorgio platform. Reliable YES. Are dealers reliable? MAYBE. Looking at the forums here for a while, issues are no different. There's some bad seeds but for the most part, trouble free. I haven't driven my M2 much but the connection you have with the car and the road is unreal. If you live close to the dealer and they have a good rating, pull the trigger. As others said, end of year sales are legit. You can pick one up for under 70k.

Thanks, appreciate that. From what I've read, 2018 on aren't bad and the LCI/facelift variants especially are more reliable. I'm going for closer to $60k before tax and tags, given that the ads are at $65k ish. Dealer is not far by distance, but far because LA. The Giorgio platform is going to be the one-and-only platform because they are shifting to full electric. So it's this QV or bust, as I see it. Given the Stellantis ownership and what the competitors do, there's no way they'd build another one with the CF driveshaft, roof, hood, rockers, double wishbones, etc. because all that is too expensive. I'll see how I like it.

[KC87ZB]

I had a 17 Giulia and a buddy has an 18 Stelvio. We both had mixed results in reliability - he has had an engine replacement at 48k. Those were both the 4 cyl turbo's. However, general reliability was good - we'll see what long term really looks like (100k miles).

Anyway, as mentioned above, the main thing is really dealer access and quality. The dealer will make or break the Alfa experience for you so you should be really aware and do your local research.

I picked my 17 Giulia on a lease and although loved the car, it was an earlier model (Apr 2017 build) it wasn't a keeper for all the above. A 2022-2024 I wouldn't have any real issues with buying as a keeper.

[ttaidapos]

Generally, builds with a date of 08/17 (MY18) and after are solid. I would definitely look for a new 23 personally.

[10"]

Originally Posted by Damage Inc

I've owned 2 M2's and an 18 QV, along with a dozen M cars.

QV drive is magical, nothing else like it from any BMW, ever that I've owned or driven. Its Ferrari like emotion vs. german logical engineering. But I had to sell mine since it kept breaking down, and the dealer had no clue.

Sold it for an 18 M2. The M2 driving experience was a major let down vs. the QV. Poor steering, lack of feel, drives like a brick vs. the magic QV suspension, steering, and chassis.

However everytime I started the car I knew it would take me to my destination and not leave me stranded!

I have driven a Quadrifoglio and an F87 before (owned neither but have driven them) and the Alfa made the F87 M2 feel like a cheap budget econobox IMO. No comparison at all. The Alfa engine is GLORIOUS. No M engine comes close

But the Alfa is more than the engine—the steering and handling are incredible!! I was totally blown away. Direct and alive in a way the F87 definitely was not alive.

Lack of a manual and horrible Alfa reliability kills it for me though

[Fugly M3]

I finally got to drive the Alfa. Quick little review.

First off, I submitted the inquiry for the Ocra (the mustard colored one) car on the site, but also said I want to see that one and all three blue ones because I want to look at the fit and finish on all of them, measure paint, etc. I get there and it's 20 minutes sitting there waiting for him to find the keys for one blue one. Dealership is a sad place. Literally no customers. I was the only one there. Dealership inside is like a Jeep dealer from the turn of the century. You can't have $230k Maserati MC20s outside with a dealership like this. Btw, they had 4 of them. Finally he gets the keys to one of the blue ones.

Filthy inside and out, months of leaves in the trunk/hood crevices - all the cars I'm looking at have DOM of 180+. Car had 80 miles on it and shoulder wear starting to show on the fronts...so I think this might have been the only tester on the lot. Also, a scratched rear driver door and the bumper isn't flush with fender on passenger side above headlight. Then notice driver side rocker panel isn't flush with fender either. I've seen the bumper issue on a few of them. From the pictures, the gold one appears to be perfect. My logic says if they're charging $3k or whatever it is for a tricoat, maybe even the Italians bother to get it right. In any event, the paint thickness appeared uniform, but with higher tolerances than the Germans. It was low 5s to low 6s mils, vs. a new BMW being between 4.5-4.8, in my experience. I'm sure sales guy thought I was nuts.

I said, I'm not buying this one but I'll take it for a drive. Finally, something positive. It's either the seating position or the wheel or the door panel height vs. windows...something makes you feel like you're in a tighter cockpit than the Bimmers for sure. Steering wheel is far superior...feels just perfect. The BMW wheels have gotten too thick with the grip design elements too bland. Seats are very good as well. Leather dash and door panels is nice to have.

On the road? I have not driven a car with a chassis feel or steering this good in at least 10 years. It had this delicate poise that I can't quite describe. Steering direct and light. I honestly don't know how they did it with electronically boosted steering. The exhaust note, to me, was far superior to BMWs. The slight overrun/popping on upshifts is amazing. You can definitely tell it's just the car talking and not the speakers giving you exhaust note. Paddle shifters are really cool. I actually wasn't sure if I'd like them and I was pleased by them. I actually didn't mind/liked the brakes at any kind of speed. But yes, super weird lurching along/last 5-10 ft before a light.

The one thing I was let down by a bit was the power. I was in manual and dynamic modes and it didn't feel quite like 500 horsepower. It definitely does rev super easy and builds almost all the way to the top, but at the 1st and 2nd gear speeds of the streets, it didn't feel like it had what's advertised. I tried to get a tiny bit of a third gear run, but it wasn't easy. I've been told that, outside of race mode, the car rips like crazy once you get into third but doesn't have it all in first and second.

Overall, I think it's a phenomenal car let down by the experience. The dealership was absolute crap. I've basically ordered my cars for 10 years, so perhaps I just forgot how shitty it is. But wow, what misery. The car is actually sublime. It does feel more like a sports car than a sedan. I'm not sure it has the power advertised or that I've become used to and I'm leery about the dealership/service aspects, but we're having a video walk around of the other two blue ones and the mustard one tomorrow. I'll report back, of course!

[ttaidapos]

Originally Posted by Fugly M3

I finally got to drive the Alfa. Quick little review.

First off, I submitted the inquiry for the Ocra (the mustard colored one) car on the site, but also said I want to see that one and all three blue ones because I want to look at the fit and finish on all of them, measure paint, etc. I get there and it's 20 minutes sitting there waiting for him to find the keys for one blue one. Dealership is a sad place. Literally no customers. I was the only one there. Dealership inside is like a Jeep dealer from the turn of the century. You can't have $230k Maserati MC20s outside with a dealership like this. Btw, they had 4 of them. Finally he gets the keys to one of the blue ones.

Filthy inside and out, months of leaves in the trunk/hood crevices - all the cars I'm looking at have DOM of 180+. Car had 80 miles on it and shoulder wear starting to show on the fronts...so I think this might have been the only tester on the lot. Also, a scratched rear driver door and the bumper isn't flush with fender on passenger side above headlight. Then notice driver side rocker panel isn't flush with fender either. I've seen the bumper issue on a few of them. From the pictures, the gold one appears to be perfect. My logic says if they're charging $3k or whatever it is for a tricoat, maybe even the Italians bother to get it right. In any event, the paint thickness appeared uniform, but with higher tolerances than the Germans. It was low 5s to low 6s mils, vs. a new BMW being between 4.5-4.8, in my experience. I'm sure sales guy thought I was nuts.

I said, I'm not buying this one but I'll take it for a drive. Finally, something positive. It's either the seating position or the wheel or the door panel height vs. windows...something makes you feel like you're in a tighter cockpit than the Bimmers for sure. Steering wheel is far superior...feels just perfect. The BMW wheels have gotten too thick with the grip design elements too bland. Seats are very good as well. Leather dash and door panels is nice to have.

On the road? I have not driven a car with a chassis feel or steering this good in at least 10 years. It had this delicate poise that I can't quite describe. Steering direct and light. I honestly don't know how they did it with electronically boosted steering. The exhaust note, to me, was far superior to BMWs. The slight overrun/popping on upshifts is amazing. You can definitely tell it's just the car talking and not the speakers giving you exhaust note. Paddle shifters are really cool. I actually wasn't sure if I'd like them and I was pleased by them. I actually didn't mind/liked the brakes at any kind of speed. But yes, super weird lurching along/last 5-10 ft before a light.

The one thing I was let down by a bit was the power. I was in manual and dynamic modes and it didn't feel quite like 500 horsepower. It definitely does rev super easy and builds almost all the way to the top, but at the 1st and 2nd gear speeds of the streets, it didn't feel like it had what's advertised. I tried to get a tiny bit of a third gear run, but it wasn't easy. I've been told that, outside of race mode, the car rips like crazy once you get into third but doesn't have it all in first and second.

Overall, I think it's a phenomenal car let down by the experience. The dealership was absolute crap. I've basically ordered my cars for 10 years, so perhaps I just forgot how shitty it is. But wow, what misery. The car is actually sublime. It does feel more like a sports car than a sedan. I'm not sure it has the power advertised or that I've become used to and I'm leery about the dealership/service aspects, but we're having a video walk around of the other two blue ones and the mustard one tomorrow. I'll report back, of course!

Review is accurate. QVs open up around the 1k mile marker. The 500hp you'll feel only in RACE mode.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by Fugly M3

I finally got to drive the Alfa. Quick little review.

First off, I submitted the inquiry for the Ocra (the mustard colored one) car on the site, but also said I want to see that one and all three blue ones because I want to look at the fit and finish on all of them, measure paint, etc. I get there and it's 20 minutes sitting there waiting for him to find the keys for one blue one. Dealership is a sad place. Literally no customers. I was the only one there. Dealership inside is like a Jeep dealer from the turn of the century. You can't have $230k Maserati MC20s outside with a dealership like this. Btw, they had 4 of them. Finally he gets the keys to one of the blue ones.

Filthy inside and out, months of leaves in the trunk/hood crevices - all the cars I'm looking at have DOM of 180+. Car had 80 miles on it and shoulder wear starting to show on the fronts...so I think this might have been the only tester on the lot. Also, a scratched rear driver door and the bumper isn't flush with fender on passenger side above headlight. Then notice driver side rocker panel isn't flush with fender either. I've seen the bumper issue on a few of them. From the pictures, the gold one appears to be perfect. My logic says if they're charging $3k or whatever it is for a tricoat, maybe even the Italians bother to get it right. In any event, the paint thickness appeared uniform, but with higher tolerances than the Germans. It was low 5s to low 6s mils, vs. a new BMW being between 4.5-4.8, in my experience. I'm sure sales guy thought I was nuts.

I said, I'm not buying this one but I'll take it for a drive. Finally, something positive. It's either the seating position or the wheel or the door panel height vs. windows...something makes you feel like you're in a tighter cockpit than the Bimmers for sure. Steering wheel is far superior...feels just perfect. The BMW wheels have gotten too thick with the grip design elements too bland. Seats are very good as well. Leather dash and door panels is nice to have.

On the road? I have not driven a car with a chassis feel or steering this good in at least 10 years. It had this delicate poise that I can't quite describe. Steering direct and light. I honestly don't know how they did it with electronically boosted steering. The exhaust note, to me, was far superior to BMWs. The slight overrun/popping on upshifts is amazing. You can definitely tell it's just the car talking and not the speakers giving you exhaust note. Paddle shifters are really cool. I actually wasn't sure if I'd like them and I was pleased by them. I actually didn't mind/liked the brakes at any kind of speed. But yes, super weird lurching along/last 5-10 ft before a light.

The one thing I was let down by a bit was the power. I was in manual and dynamic modes and it didn't feel quite like 500 horsepower. It definitely does rev super easy and builds almost all the way to the top, but at the 1st and 2nd gear speeds of the streets, it didn't feel like it had what's advertised. I tried to get a tiny bit of a third gear run, but it wasn't easy. I've been told that, outside of race mode, the car rips like crazy once you get into third but doesn't have it all in first and second.

Overall, I think it's a phenomenal car let down by the experience. The dealership was absolute crap. I've basically ordered my cars for 10 years, so perhaps I just forgot how shitty it is. But wow, what misery. The car is actually sublime. It does feel more like a sports car than a sedan. I'm not sure it has the power advertised or that I've become used to and I'm leery about the dealership/service aspects, but we're having a video walk around of the other two blue ones and the mustard one tomorrow. I'll report back, of course!

I absolutely agree with you, the Giulia Q's driving experience is far superior to any M currently on sale or seen in the last 10 years, it feels more like a 4-door supercar than a sports sedan. And the steering... sublime.
Fun fact, the Giulia Q weighs about the same as a G80, but feels lighter than an E92.
That said, as much as I like the ride of the Q and dislike some of the G8x's 'features' (weight, lack of connection to the road, lack of a wraparound cabin, complicated and ugly infotainment interface, intrusive driving assistance), I wouldn't switch from the G80 to the Giulia Q, there are a few blocking points that put me off buying it twice, when I bought the F87 and again with the G87 (and the fact that the same car went through two generations of BMWs makes one think a lot...). And I'm not talking about the bad dealers or reliability (which is actually pretty good). Nor about the lack of a manual gearbox.
The Giulia is old, feels old and has aged badly, as usual with Alfas. And the latest updates for me make the car look worse and worse, like heavy make-up on an old woman.
It's not a question of technology or infotainment, it's the overall impression of driving an outdated car, which of course brings with it some positive aspects (a more analogue driving experience, a real cockpit), but on the other hand makes you feel like you're in a car designed 20 years ago or more.
I think the right time to buy a Giulia Q new was until 2019, or buy now a used model <2020 taking advantage of the high depreciation, but anyway a purchase after few years on a G80 is overall a big step backward in my opinion, especially as an everyday/all rounder car. I would accept some compromise for a weekend car, but I wouldn't want a 4 door then.

PS Does it seem normal to you that to have the gearbox in fast mode or to open the exhaust valves you have to switch to Race mode and drive without DSC?

[ttaidapos]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

I absolutely agree with you, the Giulia Q's driving experience is far superior to any M currently on sale or seen in the last 10 years, it feels more like a 4-door supercar than a sports sedan. And the steering... sublime.
Fun fact, the Giulia Q weighs about the same as a G80, but feels lighter than an E92.
That said, as much as I like the ride of the Q and dislike some of the G8x's 'features' (weight, lack of connection to the road, lack of a wraparound cabin, complicated and ugly infotainment interface, intrusive driving assistance), I wouldn't switch from the G80 to the Giulia Q, there are a few blocking points that put me off buying it twice, when I bought the F87 and again with the G87 (and the fact that the same car went through two generations of BMWs makes one think a lot...). And I'm not talking about the bad dealers or reliability (which is actually pretty good). Nor about the lack of a manual gearbox.
The Giulia is old, feels old and has aged badly, as usual with Alfas. And the latest updates for me make the car look worse and worse, like heavy make-up on an old woman.
It's not a question of technology or infotainment, it's the overall impression of driving an outdated car, which of course brings with it some positive aspects (a more analogue driving experience, a real cockpit), but on the other hand makes you feel like you're in a car designed 20 years ago or more.
I think the right time to buy a Giulia Q new was until 2019, or buy now a used model <2020 taking advantage of the high depreciation, but anyway a purchase after few years on a G80 is overall a big step backward in my opinion, especially as an everyday/all rounder car. I would accept some compromise for a weekend car, but I wouldn't want a 4 door then.

PS Does it seem normal to you that to have the gearbox in fast mode or to open the exhaust valves you have to switch to Race mode and drive without DSC?

Regarding PS statement... No, it's not cool and I agree with you. You don't get the granularity of an M car, that's for sure. However, a simple tune addresses these points. Oh boy do I miss the steering and handling!

The depreciation factor is real. A used MY23 with low miles is a great purchase. Extended warranties are also a bargain compared to BMW for a bit of security blanket.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

I absolutely agree with you, the Giulia Q's driving experience is far superior to any M currently on sale or seen in the last 10 years, it feels more like a 4-door supercar than a sports sedan. And the steering... sublime.
Fun fact, the Giulia Q weighs about the same as a G80, but feels lighter than an E92.
That said, as much as I like the ride of the Q and dislike some of the G8x's 'features' (weight, lack of connection to the road, lack of a wraparound cabin, complicated and ugly infotainment interface, intrusive driving assistance), I wouldn't switch from the G80 to the Giulia Q, there are a few blocking points that put me off buying it twice, when I bought the F87 and again with the G87 (and the fact that the same car went through two generations of BMWs makes one think a lot...). And I'm not talking about the bad dealers or reliability (which is actually pretty good). Nor about the lack of a manual gearbox.
The Giulia is old, feels old and has aged badly, as usual with Alfas. And the latest updates for me make the car look worse and worse, like heavy make-up on an old woman.
It's not a question of technology or infotainment, it's the overall impression of driving an outdated car, which of course brings with it some positive aspects (a more analogue driving experience, a real cockpit), but on the other hand makes you feel like you're in a car designed 20 years ago or more.
I think the right time to buy a Giulia Q new was until 2019, or buy now a used model <2020 taking advantage of the high depreciation, but anyway a purchase after few years on a G80 is overall a [...]

Originally Posted by ttaidapos

Regarding PS statement... No, it's not cool and I agree with you. You don't get the granularity of an M car, that's for sure. However, a simple tune addresses these points. Oh boy do I miss the steering and handling!

The depreciation factor is real. A used MY23 with low miles is a great purchase. Extended warranties are also a bargain compared to BMW for a bit of security blanket.

Agree with both of you. What’s still pulling me are that I am just sick of BMW and some of their BS (looks, lack of buttons, weight, and elimination of the special delivery programs) and I’ve always wanted one.

From what I’ve seen online, race mode with the Corsa tires in decent weather is actually fairly controllable. It’d be something I’d want to explore. I’ve done multiple driving schools (ring and Ice driving aka drift/car control school) so I feel like I could probably learn to manage.

On the depreciation bit, absolutely. But I’m looking at cars that are being advertised at 20% off. If I could get one at 30% off, it’s a compelling proposition.

An additional note…the exhaust is now open in dynamic mode as well as race. That came about with the 2020 refresh. The overrun on upshifts was great.

So, we’ll see how today’s walk arounds go. Have a bit of a feeling this Alfa dealer guy will flake.

[Fugly M3]

Salesman was a no-show for the walk-around. Go figure. I don't think I'll bother him for a minute. He didn't know much about the car or the brand. I'll follow-up late next week and watch what they do with the prices. If the GSM calls/emails me, as they usually do, I'll rip into him about the whole thing. If Alfa Romeo wants to know part of why they didn't hit the 400k+ sales they predicted on their cars in the US (it's around 100k I think), they should look to the terrible dealer experience.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Fugly M3

Salesman was a no-show for the walk-around. Go figure. I don't think I'll bother him for a minute. He didn't know much about the car or the brand. I'll follow-up late next week and watch what they do with the prices. If the GSM calls/emails me, as they usually do, I'll rip into him about the whole thing. If Alfa Romeo wants to know part of why they didn't hit the 400k+ sales they predicted on their cars in the US (it's around 100k I think), they should look to the terrible dealer experience.

It's a shame when the stereotype is true. I cannot fathom why some brands allow such crappy dealer experiences, and don't yank the franchise away. It hurts their brand.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by Squidget

It's a shame when the stereotype is true. I cannot fathom why some brands allow such crappy dealer experiences, and don't yank the franchise away. It hurts their brand.

Well, I think it's reasonable to say they wont sell the cars and the discounts will just keep getting higher. They are advertising 20% off and have 12 of them with a 180 or more DOM. 20% off advertised means they'd be tickled to get 20% off and will likely take even less. So, we'll see how that goes. I think the lucky bit for me might be that I actually really like the Ocra color (mustard gold and a classic Alfa color, puts BMW's Phoenix and Austin yellows to shame). I doubt anyone has even test driven or sat in that car.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by Fugly M3

Agree with both of you. What’s still pulling me are that I am just sick of BMW and some of their BS (looks, lack of buttons, weight, and elimination of the special delivery programs) and I’ve always wanted one.

From what I’ve seen online, race mode with the Corsa tires in decent weather is actually fairly controllable. It’d be something I’d want to explore. I’ve done multiple driving schools (ring and Ice driving aka drift/car control school) so I feel like I could probably learn to manage.

On the depreciation bit, absolutely. But I’m looking at cars that are being advertised at 20% off. If I could get one at 30% off, it’s a compelling proposition.

An additional note…the exhaust is now open in dynamic mode as well as race. That came about with the 2020 refresh. The overrun on upshifts was great.

So, we’ll see how today’s walk arounds go. Have a bit of a feeling this Alfa dealer guy will flake.

(Un)fortunately, if you drive the Giulia Q in Race mode with Corsa tyres in ideal conditions (warm/dry), you buy it. It's intoxicating, the communicative steering and chassis make driving without DSC absolutely controllable and easy, you feel every speck of dust on the tarmac and you're fully aware of the grip limit. Not that the M's are difficult to drive, but here we are on another level of chassis feeling, I've only had the same feeling on >200k superars. Sometimes I really think that it's even too good for a sedan.
I initially drove the Q in winter on winter tyres and loved it, then I bought the F87 (after bad experience with Alfa Romeo dealers), and later drove the Giulia again in spring on fresh Corsa tyres, and started to look at my F87 with different eyes.
If things hadn't gone in that order, I don't know if it would have gone the same way.

[Fugly M3]

Well, went to Puente Hills yesterday to test drive the only one they had. Their black is a much heavier flake/sparklier than BMW's BSM and very nice. Car nearly checked out until I saw the underside of the Active Aero splitter was scuffed. $3k Made in Italy Sparco CF part plus getting it on! Then, the car wouldn't start and when it did, it was a limp home mode test drive! Car also had 100 miles on it, so the discount will have to be much more than the advertised $17k.

He bugged me later in the day saying it's not a big deal and I said, well it sort of is because if the active aero breaks under warranty - which may well happen - then the dealer will easily deny claim because of the scuffing and it's a $3-4k part plus labor.

Such a shame, the dealer experience.