[fcman]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

What about the Mustang and Camaro?

Camaro is dead after this year, but yeah. As far as Mustang, yeah that's why I said the Dark Horse. Those cars are cheaper for similar performance but you are getting a cheaper car if you know what I mean. The G87 is a much better do-it-all car for those of us that want/need it.

If you want to save some cash and only care about performance then yes go with the Mustang or Camaro.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by gemini.m3

I like evolve products but I take everything they say about newer bmws with a grain of salt. Imran hasn’t met a new bmw he doesn’t like - what’s he going to do? Give his real feelings when each of these new models = $$ after initial R&D is completed? I love the mental gymnastics they come up with. If anyone can find me one evolve video where they are critical of any of the new g series platform cars or any new Bmw for they matter, I’d love to see it.

Agreed, but I'm pretty cold on Evolve. Some of their stuff is nice, but I don't believe there is a lot of R&D on their end at all.

2 examples I can think of - their N52 tune was all but useless, and made less than pretty much every other tune and cost the same/more.

And their E90 M3 exhaust was the same as all the other off the shelf options - which isn't horrible. But Bimmerworld actually designed an exhaust, including testing the X pipe merger and was able to make substantially more power than all the other aftermarket options (who just mimicked OEM) AND sold it for less.

Originally Posted by fcman

Camaro is dead after this year, but yeah. As far as Mustang, yeah that's why I said the Dark Horse. Those cars are cheaper for similar performance but you are getting a cheaper car if you know what I mean. The G87 is a much better do-it-all car for those of us that want/need it.

If you want to save some cash and only care about performance then yes go with the Mustang or Camaro.

Yeah, GM is going to try to make it an EV - which is dumb, but whatever. I just think they (the Mustang and Camaro) are coupe, have a manual and RWD - bluetooth and heated this and that - and don't have a cheesy interior made of IPADs and don't come with a BMW tax. If you want a badge, you don't really have too many other options.

[F30BimmerPostEnjoyer]

But hold up, this new M2 is like it hit the quarantine snacks a bit too hard – bigger and heavier? Did it have a wild party with gravity? 🍔🎉

Great video btw!

[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Yeah, GM is going to try to make it an EV - which is dumb, but whatever. I just think they (the Mustang and Camaro) are coupe, have a manual and RWD - bluetooth and heated this and that - and don't have a cheesy interior made of IPADs and don't come with a BMW tax. If you want a badge, you don't really have too many other options.

The new mustangs also have the "cheesy interior made of IPADs" and as someone who has owned multiple mustangs can tell you the interior quality of a premium brand is miles ahead of Ford in terms of NVH, material quality and software design.

Both my s550 Mustangs were fairly new and had rattles galore, left me stranded multiple times and felt super cheap inside. If you can look past hatred of the "ipad on a dash" you'll see a well appointed, comfortable interior. For marginally more than a dark horse with comparable weight and power (BMW underrates HP much more than ford). All in a smaller footprint.

(Edited out the more torque comment, I completely forgot how much tq the s58 makes haha)

[fcman]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Yeah, GM is going to try to make it an EV - which is dumb, but whatever. I just think they (the Mustang and Camaro) are coupe, have a manual and RWD - bluetooth and heated this and that - and don't have a cheesy interior made of IPADs and don't come with a BMW tax. If you want a badge, you don't really have too many other options.

I love the Mustang and Camaro, almost bought a zl1 1le a few months ago, but they aren’t nearly as nice. And like CodeSlinger sad, the dark horse has the giant iPad too now and is not really any cheaper , same money, same iPad, but worse quality

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by CodeSlinger

The new mustangs also have the "cheesy interior made of IPADs" and as someone who has owned multiple mustangs can tell you the interior quality of a premium brand is miles ahead of Ford in terms of NVH, material quality and software design.

I had to check to make sure, and you're right - it's the same ugly Ipad interior. Now we are arguing that one screen bezel looks more premium than another when they both look like the cost cutting afterthoughts that they are.

Originally Posted by CodeSlinger

Both my s550 Mustangs were fairly new and had rattles galore, left me stranded multiple times and felt super cheap inside. If you can look past hatred of the "ipad on a dash" you'll see a well appointed, comfortable interior. For marginally more than a dark horse with comparable weight and power (BMW underrates HP much more than ford). All in a smaller footprint.

(Edited out the more torque comment, I completely forgot how much tq the s58 makes haha)

Well appointed how? There really isn't an interior to speak of - maybe the seats look better, but beyond that I wouldn't say there is a stark difference. I'll admit that the darkhorse is kinda ugly in too flashy way, but it's hard to argue the package.

Also, the Darkhorse sound WAY better than the S58

[Squidget]

Also the DH with handling pack costs $66K, that's MORE than the G87! And that's before the mandatory ADM.

A problem with the DH is that can be EITHER a great DD or a great track car, depending on whether you opt the Handling Pack. It can't be both at the same time, like the G87 can.

And of course the DH weighs more than the G87.

The Camaro has its own problems, and it's gone anyway.

When you look at other cars, really look at them, you see all the things they can't do that the G87 CAN do. It's a jack of all trades car, it does everything well.

How many four seater cars can be track cars, daily driven, and grand tourers, on the same day? M cars, AMGs, Audi R models, Blackwings, and 911s. Not a long list, and I think the G87 is an outstanding car in this crowd.

[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I had to check to make sure, and you're right - it's the same ugly Ipad interior. Now we are arguing that one screen bezel looks more premium than another when they both look like the cost cutting afterthoughts that they are.


Well appointed how? There really isn't an interior to speak of - maybe the seats look better, but beyond that I wouldn't say there is a stark difference. I'll admit that the darkhorse is kinda ugly in too flashy way, but it's hard to argue the package.

Also, the Darkhorse sound WAY better than the S58

High quality dash materials and seats, (yes it's no merino but it's much nicer than any American leather I've sat in), great seat adjustment, high quality screens, no rattles or squeaks. All in all it feels like a much nicer place to be, and one I am confident will age much more gracefully, (which my s550 mustangs most certainly did not). A pretty universal comment is the G87 interior is a massive step up from the F87 (aside from the screens, if you don't like them) when it comes to the fit and finish, as it's now derived from the 3 series rather than being 1 series derived.

Exhaust is a strong point for V8's as it always has been, one of the only things I really loved about my 2016 GT. Though the S58 has enough character to more than satisfy the itch.

All this to say the $4k bump to go from a dark horse to a G87 seems like a pretty fair trade, depending on what you value.

[Squidget]

FWIW, while there has been some negative feedback to the screens from the purists, my in-car experience with them has been very positive.

The screen is bright and easy to read even in sunlight. A huge amount of information is available to the driver, and there's lots of customization. When you are seated, it is clean and doesn't block sightlines.

Other carmakers are trying to jam the same amount of info into a smaller space and it kinda sucks. Looking at you, Camaro.

Do I have gripes with ID8? Yes. Do I want a gauges view? Yes! But overall I like it more than I thought I would.

[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by Squidget

FWIW, while there has been some negative feedback to the screens from the purists, my in-car experience with them has been very positive.

The screen is bright and easy to read even in sunlight. A huge amount of information is available to the driver, and there's lots of customization. When you are seated, it is clean and doesn't block sightlines.

Other carmakers are trying to jam the same amount of info into a smaller space and it kinda sucks. Looking at you, Camaro.

Do I have gripes with ID8? Yes. Do I want a gauges view? Yes! But overall I like it more than I thought I would.

I couldn't agree more, it's lower than I thought and ends up just being an insane amount of useful information behind the steering wheel and immediately to the right, that massive full screen overview map view coupled with the in-dash nav and my wife controlling music via spotify directly on her phone is perfect.

[Imran@Evolve]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

Great vid as per usual. But for my money, the M240i XDrive with a slight tune would be my choice as a daily in snow country.

As a daily the M240i makes a lot of sense. Its an awesome non "M" car.

[Imran@Evolve]

Originally Posted by Squidget

FWIW, while there has been some negative feedback to the screens from the purists, my in-car experience with them has been very positive.

The screen is bright and easy to read even in sunlight. A huge amount of information is available to the driver, and there's lots of customization. When you are seated, it is clean and doesn't block sightlines.

Other carmakers are trying to jam the same amount of info into a smaller space and it kinda sucks. Looking at you, Camaro.

Do I have gripes with ID8? Yes. Do I want a gauges view? Yes! But overall I like it more than I thought I would.

Have ID8 in the M2 and G81 M3 and when I'm driving the G82 I do miss it. Says it all I think!

[fcman]

Yeah seems like a lot of the complaints about the screen are your pretty standard “I don’t want to learn something new” deal that comes every time a product’s UX is changed in a significant way (as a software engineer I know this complaint all too well). It goes away after a little while.

[dmboone25]

For you guys that have had the car for a little while, what are your thoughts on the screens / lack of HVAC buttons?

My lady got to sit in a new M2 (not drive it) and was really put off by not being able to push the Mac AC button (it IS 110 in Texas right now)

[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

For you guys that have had the car for a little while, what are your thoughts on the screens / lack of HVAC buttons?

My lady got to sit in a new M2 (not drive it) and was really put off by not being able to push the Mac AC button (it IS 110 in Texas right now)

The auto temp has been perfectly fine for getting it cool quickly, I'm pretty sure it maxes the AC if the temp is significantly different. Though the "down temp" button is always visible and you can spam that.

The only thing I'm frustrated by is the fact that there isn't an easy way to turn the heated seat from 0 to Max or Max to 0 in one press.

[apez]

I have found the auto climate to be great. Once I have my settings figured out I never push it again.

That said I have two complaints:

1. Since I rarely use it when I do want to manually do something it is slow. Usually this is turning it off completely because the windows are open or at an autocross day.

2. It isn't intuitive that the heated seats are tied to the auto climate. When you are used to manually turning on all the time you try to keep that habit and then have to deal with the screen. When I finally realized I don't need to constantly turn on, just set it on low (for me) and medium (for my wife) and then it will turn on and off as needed it completely changed my mind. I just wish the steering wheel was the same!

[StickyPickle]

Originally Posted by Squidget

FWIW, while there has been some negative feedback to the screens from the purists, my in-car experience with them has been very positive.

The screen is bright and easy to read even in sunlight. A huge amount of information is available to the driver, and there's lots of customization. When you are seated, it is clean and doesn't block sightlines.

Other carmakers are trying to jam the same amount of info into a smaller space and it kinda sucks. Looking at you, Camaro.

Do I have gripes with ID8? Yes. Do I want a gauges view? Yes! But overall I like it more than I thought I would.

This pretty much sums it up for me. Coming from ID7 in the M240 to ID8 in the M2, I thought I was not gonna like it as much. It wasn’t until recently when I drove a loaner with ID7 that I realized I definitely prefer ID8 over ID7. I still don’t like the lack of integration but it doesn’t bother me as much as I thought it would. And yes, please offer more traditional gauge clusters!

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Well appointed how? It's an easy question to answer when you step our of your F22 and into a G87... If you can't tell the difference in quality of materials and fit and finish, from the lack of use of hard plastics like the F22/DH, to insulation and feel, the car is not for you, because you don't appreciate any "luxury". One doesn't ask how a Lexus is different from a Corolla, it's easy to spot when you are in one and out of the other.

My F22 cheap crap, and is a step down from my E92 LCI Msport. Everything on this car is cheaper - from the moon roof cover to the dash materials. Thinner, flimser, but on the upside they don't melt.

I know what luxury is, and it's not this car. You're arguing an Iwatch is same tier of luxury as a Submariner.

We aren't talking watches though, but we are talking ugly cheap LCD screens in place of a proper dash, wrapped in a package that looks like a melted turd. If that's luxury for you, keep it.

Originally Posted by M2siast

Plus, the G87 already comes with factory M badges, so you don't have to put on those fake grille slats you have on the F22 to pretend it's an M. It's got the M badges from factory, if that's your sort of jam. Win in both camps.

You do know that BMW counts any car with an "M" badge as an M - which is why the best selling "M" cars are the M240 and the electric cars.
Also, my car came from the factory with quite a few badges. Someone should tell BMW they made a mistake.

Originally Posted by M2siast

What's more, when you factor in all of the modifications one has to make to make the F22 "more racey", you really have to do the calculations to make sure you're not paying more for the car + mods than you would an out-of-the-box M car... And still not drive like an M.

Good news - My car outperforms an M. The F87 and M235I are basically the same car, with the same engine. Suspension geometry is modifed, extra badges (which you seem to love so much) and body cladding. Immaterial to me and my use.

If the M2 is a benchmark for you, that tells me all I need to know about your standards...or lack there of.

Originally Posted by M2siast

I know, I've been there with my E82 (except the fake M badges, that was never my thing). The N55 is cool and all, but it can never be more than that.

Anything more than what? A powerplant to power a car? The difference between me and you is I don't define myself by my car. This whole post reads like someone who thinks they are better than another person because they bought a new toy.

Not only do I not want your toy, I don't care what your drive and I don't care enough about you to look up your post history to make snarky comments. I literally will not think about you at all outside this post.

Anyhow, back to cars - I would still take the F87 over the G87 on appearance (interior and exterior design) alone. It's easier to fix power and handling, harder to fix obese and ugly.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Such a long post from someone who doesn’t care. Yawn.
I didn’t go on the F22 forum to say anything about those cars. You did. You certainly care. So much so that you disguised your car with fake badges to present it in a light of what it’s not.

I was just pointing that out. I’ll happily keep my turd. Thanks.

my guy, you can go whereever and say whatever, I know I will.
And I'm perfectly happy with all the "fake" badges that BMW installed on my car.

[CodeSlinger]

As Squidget would say, when viewed in the context of the competition the G87 is a fantastic offering of a combination of luxury and performance.

Some won't buy it because they hate how it looks, some won't buy it because they can't look past the weight or the touch screens. But if you want a car thats in the mid $60k that feels as at home on a race track, a grand touring road trip and a nice night out than it's hard to beat it.

If your bar for luxury is a rolls royce and your bar for track driving is a caterham than you won't be happy with this car and you wouldn't have been happy with nearly any other M in the past 20 years.

[Matt@Evolve]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

For you guys that have had the car for a little while, what are your thoughts on the screens / lack of HVAC buttons?

My lady got to sit in a new M2 (not drive it) and was really put off by not being able to push the Mac AC button (it IS 110 in Texas right now)

HVAC is fine, as the buttons are still there and truthfully the auto setting is very good.

Heated seats sucks, and it’s a solvable issue by just adding the button in as software. When you have it on ‘very high’ it actually puts an icon there! But it disappears. I also dislike how it remembers the heated seat setting rather than turning off like older cars. They also don’t seem to get as hot? G82 with ID7 and buckets gets hotter than G87 with ID8 and buckets.

In general ID8 makes more sense to me than ID7, the gauges are already a screen, stop making them try and look traditional in a recess and just go all the way to a screen that can show more information. I prefer the UI also, and the larger screen feels like it makes a bit more sense. Going back to ID7 surprisingly feels like a step back, even though fundamentally they do the same things.

[imperfectluck]

Originally Posted by M2siast

BMW doesn't install ///M grille slats yet. I foresee them being an option in the future, because many people need them. But not yet. You paid money to install those in your car. Which is fine. Not sure why you are not owning up to liking them... You do you man. Be proud of your things. When you're proud of what you have and who you are, your self-esteem gets higher. And when you have higher self-esteem, you don't feel the need to go on other people's car forums to knock on their vehicles.

Enjoy your nice car in good health. It is a nice car. No need to put others down.

In case you haven’t seen it this has already existed as I’ve seen one on a vehicle from factory already.

Can we please leave the petty convos, it literally ate half of the last page before I got to this one, thanks.

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