[Squidget]

Originally Posted by M2siast

If you haven't heard one person approve of the manual in the M2, you haven't spent nearly enough time here.

Yes. Some of us approve of it, myself included. Even some reviewers like it, but not all.

Originally Posted by M2siast

It's universally approved as a good manual.
The only criticism there was, wasn't even of the transmission itself, but the gearing ratio (Throttle House, saying it was dead under 3k RPM).

Well no. On both counts. It's far from universally loved because it has long throws and slightly rubber feel. Just not universally hated either. (And guess what, if you want short throws, there are kits for that, so it's easily fixed.)

And not only was TH wrong, but it had nothing to do do with gearing. Not even a little. It had to do with with boost threshold. Not turbo lag, not gearing.

But really, the problem with TH is that they refused to be in proper gear, and poor drivers are indeed a fatal flaw in all manual transmissions.

[Rate-of-Twist]

Originally Posted by M2siast

If you haven't heard one person approve of the manual in the M2, you haven't spent nearly enough time here.

It's universally approved as a good manual.
The only criticism there was, wasn't even of the transmission itself, but the gearing ratio (Throttle House, saying it was dead under 3k RPM).

So, maybe you meant the opposite?

Well, you’re right. I have based my “nobody has said anything positive about the manual” on YouTube alone. Pretty dumb on my part to be honest as YouTube becomes an echo chamber to get clicks and for shock value. The more I have read here, the more I’m sure I want a manual.

The TH review I found frustrating as I do enjoy them, it’s great fun content to watch. But the M2 review seemed like a throwaway as it could not possibly live up to the somehow mystical F87. It was some of the most biased content I have seen from them.

In terms of reviewer hate aesthetically, I think most people misunderstand this M2 because it’s a “M2” to me, this car is a throwback to the aesthetic traits of a e30 M3… but you can’t call it an M3, because there is already an M3 🤣. This car isn’t trying to be the beautiful lines of the last M2, it’s more of a tribute to the square strong lines of the M car of the 1980s and 1990s

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I meant homo as homogenized.
I thought BMW fully embraced the milk-analogy in their lineup by calling the M cars "full-fat", and the other ones "M-lite".

Homo milk is "whole milk" here in Canada.

Ah, that is unfortunate overlap in slang, then.

BMW has very precise terms for their flavors of M, it's all marketing speak, but if I recall it's:

"M" (just "M" or "motorsport") is the top tier; cosmetics (badging, trim), track tuned engine, suspension, the works. ex: the M2.

"M Performance" is cosmetics plus sometimes a tuned engine, but not a M engine ("S" model), nor stuff like full slip e-diff. ex: the M240i.

"M Sport" is just cosmetics, no performance upgrades. Aka, a 2 Series with M trim package.

That's how I think it works. There's an image floating around the forum that describes it in more detail.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Rate-of-Twist

The TH review I found frustrating as I do enjoy them, it’s great fun content to watch. But the M2 review seemed like a throwaway as it could not possibly live up to the somehow mystical F87. It was some of the most biased content I have seen from them.

Meh. IMO, The G87 stomps all over the F87's face in every way except looks. The suspension, handling, steering, braking, engine, seat position, interior quality, tech, it's all greatly improved. If we are talking base models, it's just not close.

The things that F87 are "good at" are being hard to control and being a more stripped down old-fashioned experience. But I don't value those things, YMMV. I don't consider poor handling to be a "feature." Even if I did I'd still buy the better car and then just put crappy tires on it when I wanted to hoon around.

Now if we are comparing to the F87C or F87CS, there's more to talk about. I'd still take a base G87 over an F87C, but I can understand why others would choose the F87C. The F87CS probably outperforms the G87, but for the price difference it damn well should.

[Tag]

Couple of new pics of the M2 CS which was spotted several weeks back.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cx7uvuDsBVR/?hl=en

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cx8TImOsoMd/?hl=en

[Chet for short]

Originally Posted by Tag

Couple of new pics of the M2 CS which was spotted several weeks back.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cx7uvuDsBVR/?hl=en

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cx8TImOsoMd/?hl=en

Great shot of the duck tail. Still looks like sliding calipers in the rear.

[RPM33]

Originally Posted by Tag

Couple of new pics of the M2 CS which was spotted several weeks back.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cx7uvuDsBVR/?hl=en

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cx8TImOsoMd/?hl=en

Would anyone trade their F87 M2 CS DCT for this?

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by RPM33

Would anyone trade their F87 M2 CS DCT for this?

I would imagine a lot of people would when the car comes out. We wont really know until we get something other than camo pics of test mules. Could be 500 hp with a manual transmission, even crazier seats, Cup 2R tires, etc. Or could be a tune, tires, and cosmetics. At this point, it's all speculation.

[xiven]

My guess is this is an M2 Comp AWD. Doesn't look that much different than the current model.

[frostyrwd]

Originally Posted by xiven

My guess is this is an M2 Comp AWD. Doesn't look that much different than the current model.

As others have stated the CS model is still a ways away. They don’t have to be testing the final product here for it to still be the CS test mule.

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by Rate-of-Twist

This is the hardest part when spec'ing a G87... I really wanted a "last of it's kind car" ie, a car that handles, a car with a bunch of horsepower, and a car with a manual transmission.

A M2 with a 6MT is "THE" car, but I haven't heard one person even remotely approve of the manual in the car. Pretty frustrating given I have to throw down the cash on a gamble and hope I picked right once its shows up and I have to do paperwork

The ownership reviews on the 6MT are pretty good. I've had 8 M cars since 1998 with 5MTs or 6MTs. This one is pretty darn good. Not perfect, but much better than I expected. I may spend a few hundred bucks and put a Rogue or AutoSolutions SSK in at some point, but now that I have the car, that's not nearly as important as I thought it was going to be.

I like the manual!

[Tag]

Originally Posted by xiven

My guess is this is an M2 Comp AWD. Doesn't look that much different than the current model.

They wouldn't put a ducktail spoiler nor a CF splitter if it were a Comp model.

[Tag]

Another pic from the BMW M Testcenter at Nürburgring.

Only changes I see is the trunk lid with integrated ducktail spoiler and what appears to be the M Performance CF diffuser.

[k-m2-j442]

Originally Posted by Rate-of-Twist

The TH review I found frustrating as I do enjoy them, it’s great fun content to watch. But the M2 review seemed like a throwaway as it could not possibly live up to the somehow mystical F87. It was some of the most biased content I have seen from them.

To be fair, if I recall correctly, Thomas did say the G87 was objectively better in nearly every way (except maybe steering feel?) than the F87, he would just prefer the F87, which is fine because he owns one.

[Rate-of-Twist]

Originally Posted by Kmj442

To be fair, if I recall correctly, Thomas did say the G87 was objectively better in nearly every way (except maybe steering feel?) than the F87, he would just prefer the F87, which is fine because he owns one.

When you listen to the actual substance of what he was saying I completely agree, it was a generally favorable review.

The disservice done was that is was a favorable review said in a way that made it sound as if it was inferior in someway - kinda like delivering a solid compliment while frowning at someone.

I should add, I don’t have a dog in the fight per we as I haven’t owned either of the cars or any BMW to this point. I was a fan of the F87 and I’m a fan of the G87 and considering purchasing one

[k-m2-j442]

Originally Posted by Rate-of-Twist

When you listen to the actual substance of what he was saying I completely agree, it was a generally favorable review.

The disservice done was that is was a favorable review said in a way that made it sound as if it was inferior in someway - kinda like delivering a solid compliment while frowning at someone.

I should add, I don’t have a dog in the fight per we as I haven’t owned either of the cars or any BMW to this point. I was a fan of the F87 and I’m a fan of the G87 and considering purchasing one

Agreed. I mean I still ordered a MANUAL G87 even though everyone says the auto is better (the zf8 is fantastic, had one in my supra) but I want a manual. Its currently sitting at the factory waiting to get on a boat so I can't comment either on how any of those things are haha

[ronin13013]

I think Joe Achilles got a 4sec 0 to 60 in his long termer. It's definitely an improvement over past BMW manuals. Which is the point of any iteration.

Originally Posted by Kmj442

Agreed. I mean I still ordered a MANUAL G87 even though everyone says the auto is better (the zf8 is fantastic, had one in my supra) but I want a manual. Its currently sitting at the factory waiting to get on a boat so I can't comment either on how any of those things are haha

[Rate-of-Twist]

Originally Posted by Kmj442

Agreed. I mean I still ordered a MANUAL G87 even though everyone says the auto is better (the zf8 is fantastic, had one in my supra) but I want a manual. Its currently sitting at the factory waiting to get on a boat so I can't comment either on how any of those things are haha

Would love to hear a comparison to the Supra when you have the M2. The Supra has a lot going for it, but I can’t get past the looks (no offense to anyone) I have had a pair of TRD Pro Tacoma / 4Runner and the fake vents everywhere really pisses me off given the premium you pay

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by RPM33

Would anyone trade their F87 M2 CS DCT for this?

Not in a million years

That doesn't mean I wouldn't buy the G87CS; F87CS is just too nice to get rid of

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Tag

They wouldn't put a ducktail spoiler nor a CF splitter if it were a Comp model.

Could it be that this is a M2CS-L?

[Basketcase]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Could it be that this is a M2CS-L?

Not as per what any intel is saying... but man do I hope BMW pulls a fast one and drops the CSL (in 6MT) and breaks the internet and this forum on the release/leak day! That would be the best surprise ever!

And to only make it $100k would help as well so I could afford it haha...

I can honestly say I could see the CSL being the actual model coming... I don't really see them putting this trunk on a CS, since they never have in the past. But that is really just me being hopeful (read: naive) and hoping dreams come true.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Basketcase

Not as per what any intel is saying... but man do I hope BMW pulls a fast one and drops the CSL (in 6MT) and breaks the internet and this forum on the release/leak day! That would be the best surprise ever!

And to only make it $100k would help as well so I could afford it haha...

I can honestly say I could see the CSL being the actual model coming... I don't really see them putting this trunk on a CS, since they never have in the past. But that is really just me being hopeful (read: naive) and hoping dreams come true.

I don't know about the manual part, but can imagine it'll easily be around the $120k mark.

The difference between the M2CS and M2CSL is only a measly L; nothing more, and a ducktail points to the L.