[freakystyly]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

I guess we all gain a little weight as we get older and it looks like BMW M2's are no exception to the rule.

Except pickup trucks which these cars are slowly becoming. Only about 300-600lbs away from a single cab pickup truck curb weight.

EVs are even heavier.

[Car-Addicted]

The BMW M Pick up!
Now there's a play for the future. That BMW S68 twin-turbocharged V8 would haul Butt.

[tracer bullet]

I hoped the new M2 would grow on me, but it hasn't. I'd own one today if it was more 1M like and less today's M3/4. I find it hard to forgive the weight, dislike the interior, the front and rear ends, and so on like all the other complainers. Haven't driven one but too many times reading about the (lack of) steering feedback as well - I don't blindly follow reviews but that particular subject is highly important to me and I know I won't get into one and suddenly think they were all wrong and the steering feel is wonderful.

I'm holding out hope for a Manual Z4, a local dealer claims I'm the first on the list and that they actually have a list. No idea if that'll pan out at all, but I've been in contact with them a few times so fingers are crossed.

If that doesn't pan out, and I don't get one of the remaining I6, 6 speed, smallish BMW's then... I'll probably hold out for some sort of sporty EV coupe. Hopefully something like that will actually exist before I die of old age.

[Mavus]

saw couple and to me look like cheap kit cars. crap body design but they didn’t want to kill m4 sales with more traditional design most likely

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Mavus

saw couple and to me look like cheap kit cars. crap body design but they didn’t want to kill m4 sales with more traditional design most likely

German thinking, Lets have three butt ugly cars in the line up. Two words BMW "FOCUS" "GROUP".

M3 and M4 pictures always reminds me of that bit from Grumpier Old Men:

If my dog was as ugly as you, I'd shave his ass and teach him to walk backwards.

[DrewNewM2]

Go to any car forum and everyone hates on the new model mostly because they have the old one. Makes sense. Then they trade for the new one and love it.

When I first saw an HEA car, I didn’t think it looked amazing but I still liked it. Lower it, add some spacers and front splitter and side skirts and the look is transformed. It looks good. Many member examples On here lookin good! Is it beautiful? No, but it’s wide, aggressive, has an S58 and traps about 120 stock and pulls over 1g for under $70k with tons of tuning potential and the last manual M car in an automotive world that’s becoming very boring with the move to appliance like EV commuter machines.

And some cars weighing in about 3700 lbs which is heavy but nobody but unless you’re a track rat, most people wouldn’t notice.

[M_Power Rob]

.

[MMMGuy60]

Originally Posted by DrewNewM2

Go to any car forum and everyone hates on the new model mostly because they have the old one. Makes sense. Then they trade for the new one and love it.

When I first saw an HEA car, I didn’t think it looked amazing but I still liked it. Lower it, add some spacers and front splitter and side skirts and the look is transformed. It looks good. Many member examples On here lookin good! Is it beautiful? No, but it’s wide, aggressive, has an S58 and traps about 120 stock and pulls over 1g for under $70k with tons of tuning potential and the last manual M car in an automotive world that’s becoming very boring with the move to appliance like EV commuter machines.

And some cars weighing in about 3700 lbs which is heavy but nobody but unless you’re a track rat, most people wouldn’t notice.

Yup, 100% true in here. The previous owners are all butt hurt because BMW goes in a different direction and their cars are so dated-looking now. Numbers don't lie, the new M2 is selling way more than the invisible-looking F87 m2.

M2, M3, M4 are so ugly looking, I wonder who is buying them all???

[ronin13013]

There are some really good looking examples. I thought we got rid of these guys...

[ecerrini]

Originally Posted by MMMGuy60

Yup, 100% true in here. The previous owners are all butt hurt because BMW goes in a different direction and their cars are so dated-looking now. Numbers don't lie, the new M2 is selling way more than the invisible-looking F87 m2.

M2, M3, M4 are so ugly looking, I wonder who is buying them all???

Boom.

[El SID]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

I hoped the new M2 would grow on me, but it hasn't. I'd own one today if it was more 1M like and less today's M3/4. I find it hard to forgive the weight, dislike the interior, the front and rear ends, and so on like all the other complainers. Haven't driven one but too many times reading about the (lack of) steering feedback as well - I don't blindly follow reviews but that particular subject is highly important to me and I know I won't get into one and suddenly think they were all wrong and the steering feel is wonderful.

I'm holding out hope for a Manual Z4, a local dealer claims I'm the first on the list and that they actually have a list. No idea if that'll pan out at all, but I've been in contact with them a few times so fingers are crossed.

If that doesn't pan out, and I don't get one of the remaining I6, 6 speed, smallish BMW's then... I'll probably hold out for some sort of sporty EV coupe. Hopefully something like that will actually exist before I die of old age.

Process everything you’ve heard and read with a grain of salt. Every journalist has different experiences with past automobiles, different preconceived notions of what certain driving dynamics should be, and different levels of driving skill. You cannot assume anything until you’ve driven the G87 M2. I was a naysayer until I saw this new M2 in person, drove it, and purchased it. The G87 is far more than the sum of its parts.

You’ll be very surprised to see Chris Harris’ review on Sunday. He has already boasted how great the M2 is on his Collecting Addicts podcast.

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by DrewNewM2

Go to any car forum and everyone hates on the new model mostly because they have the old one. Makes sense. Then they trade for the new one and love it.

So it's not possible in your view that someone actually likes the original model they bought, and don't care for the replacement? That can't happen?? Get over it, it's has happened a LOT with the G87.

I used to "upgrade" to a newer model of the same car quite frequently. But only if I actually preferred the new model over the old one, which wasn't always the case. Case in point: My 2019 Golf R. Love it. Don't care for the Mk8 on many levels. So I keep my Mk7.5. Same for my M2 Comp. Much prefer it over the G87. So I keep it, even though I could "upgrade" if I wanted to. I'd be first in line for a G87 if I found it more desirable. But I simply don't.

Look, there's no right or wrong here, especially when it comes to aesthetics. If you prefer the G87 for its styling or any of a zillion other reasons, great! Buy one. You're not wrong, nor am I, just because we have different preferences.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by KevinC

So it's not possible in your view that someone actually likes the original model they bought, and don't care for the replacement? That can't happen?? Get over it, it's has happened a LOT with the G87.

I used to "upgrade" to a newer model of the same car quite frequently. But only if I actually preferred the new model over the old one, which wasn't always the case. Case in point: My 2019 Golf R. Love it. Don't care for the Mk8 on many levels. So I keep my Mk7.5. Same for my M2 Comp. Much prefer it over the G87. So I keep it, even though I could "upgrade" if I wanted to. I'd be first in line for a G87 if I found it more desirable. But I simply don't.

Look, there's no right or wrong here, especially when it comes to aesthetics. If you prefer the G87 for its styling or any of a zillion other reasons, great! Buy one. You're not wrong, nor am I, just because we have different preferences.

Assuming the engine is kept stock, I believe the F87 has a higher potential just because it weighs much less than the G87 (I own the latter).

When I raced in Eurocup (a GT race with different classes), E36 M3 3.2 Euros (the 321hp one, not the neutered US version) were often the fastest of the bunch, only topped by the stripped-out F87s (with carbon roof) with 1350kg curb weight.

[MineralGreyMetallic]

I had zero interest in buying a G87 until I saw a few around town. They have quite the presence.

Cars have generally always been this way. It's difficult to photograph them well.

Let's also not forget how poorly received the F87 was when it first released in terms of looks.

Not saying anyone should their mind. Visual design is one metric. I agree the car should be lighter, but I'm not sure how it would drive with all that power if it was. The F87 can already be a bit unwieldy from a grip perspective.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Assuming the engine is kept stock, I believe the F87 has a higher potential just because it weighs much less than the G87 (I own the latter).

When I raced in Eurocup (a GT race with different classes), E36 M3 3.2 Euros (the 321hp one, not the neutered US version) were often the fastest of the bunch, only topped by the stripped-out F87s (with carbon roof) with 1350kg curb weight.

The dynamics of the G87 are significantly better than the F87, with old Nordschleife times (about 8 seconds less than the new layout) indicating the E36 M3 is closer to the OG F87 than the F87 is to the G87. The CLAR platform is just dynamically more of an incremental change than more than 20 years of evolution of the platform before that.

A fully stripped and race prepped G87 is probably going to be about 1500kg, at that weight to a 1350kg F87 it should still maintain a similar lap time advantage compared with the stock cars.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Assuming the engine is kept stock, I believe the F87 has a higher potential just because it weighs much less than the G87 (I own the latter).

When I raced in Eurocup (a GT race with different classes), E36 M3 3.2 Euros (the 321hp one, not the neutered US version) were often the fastest of the bunch, only topped by the stripped-out F87s (with carbon roof) with 1350kg curb weight.

Dont have to read any further to know what your preaching is garbage.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

Dont have to read any further to know what your preaching is garbage.

Dude, you can keep your whining to yourself. Enjoy your auto.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by aerobod

The dynamics of the G87 are significantly better than the F87, with old Nordschleife times (about 8 seconds less than the new layout) indicating the E36 M3 is closer to the OG F87 than the F87 is to the G87. The CLAR platform is just dynamically more of an incremental change than more than 20 years of evolution of the platform before that.

A fully stripped and race prepped G87 is probably going to be about 1500kg, at that weight to a 1350kg F87 it should still maintain a similar lap time advantage compared with the stock cars.

I think official lap times are 13 sec apart (7:39 for G87, 7:52 for F87). That's approximately 1.5 sec per 1 min lap, a second of which you can attribute to the difference in tires (PS4S star vs PSS star).
Since you mentioned 8-sec improvement due to the track patch (circa 2018 I believe), the dynamics might be even closer than you think.

I also mentioned keeping the engine stock in order to focus on the chassis differences, as there is no guarantee that a G87 will be heavier or lighter than an F87 with an S58 swap. But if F87 is indeed lighter, the traction bit can be worked out through mods, leading to my belief that F87 may have a higher potential.

[JG13]

Bunch of haters in here lmao.

Looks are subjective but saying the old generation has more potential than the new one is just smoking crack. The engineering on the G8X platform is just next level and anybody who has driven one will tell you that.

Chris Harris video comes out tomorrow, I suggest you all watch it.

[JG13]

The mental gymnastics are killing me. BMW innovates with every generation, it's what they're good at. Call it ugly all you want but the S58 engine is the best engine they have ever produced.

You wanna talk about potential? Those red bull drift guys threw a big turbo on an S58 and drifted it at 1000whp for two years with stock internals. Opened that engine up and it looked brand new.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by M2siast

So you think the F87 would be quicker than it was if it had run the longer track like the G87 did?
Maybe it would catch more momentum and take the last turn more quickly and go back in time?

Please read my language carefully. I did not say G87 isn't faster stock to stock. I simply believe F87 has a higher "potential" because it weighs much less in stock form, and I've seen how light it can be.

Many OEM suspension modifications, such as wider tracks, stiffer anti-roll bars, and softer rear springs were made to G87 to accommodate the additional weight of the engine and the chassis. When you start stripping the car for race spec, that inherent weight becomes a liability, and whatever advantage the additional bracing had becomes less apparent because lighter cars simply have higher momentum when paired with a suitable suspension.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

I think official lap times are 13 sec apart (7:39 for G87, 7:52 for F87). That's approximately 1.5 sec per 1 min lap, a second of which you can attribute to the difference in tires (PS4S star vs PSS star).
Since you mentioned 8-sec improvement due to the track patch (circa 2018 I believe), the dynamics might be even closer than you think.

I also mentioned keeping the engine stock in order to focus on the chassis differences, as there is no guarantee that a G87 will be heavier or lighter than an F87 with an S58 swap. But if F87 is indeed lighter, the traction bit can be worked out through mods, leading to my belief that F87 may have a higher potential.

The adjusted time after the 2019 changes would be about 8:00 for the F87 on the new track layout, that was 7:38 for the G87, from times I have seen between the PSS and PS4S, it is more like 1.5 secs in a 2 minutes lap, perhaps adjusting the F87 to 7:56.

From the addition of front camber and 305 tyres on the Jackie Ding time attack car and based on his previous F87 experience, he sees a lot more potential in the G87 chassis. The CLAR G87 chassis amongst all other factors is just much stiffer than the F87 chassis, not something that can be easily compensated for. BMW quotes about 25% better torsional rigidity in G-series cars than F-series cars, besides any improvement in the suspension pickup point locations.