[J-RO]

Is there any coding that needs to be done after installing the Bimmertech Amp?

[BroDoze]

No ^^

[J-RO]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

No ^^

Thank you.

[baj_baj]

Originally Posted by Mastamoe

Would you say the amp is worth the purchase?

I assumed that the AF amp would replace the HK amp. Is this not the case?

"worth it" is something very individual... For me it was worth it because the original HK system was just so terrible sounding coming from Audis B&O, any improvement was welcome.
Now.. honestly for the price, I was expecting more from the amp, for me it would be worth it around the 500€ point, when you compare what you get in the home audio world for the money. Maybe the speakers are just too cr*p to fully exploit the amp, I don't know, but I don't want to throw even more money at the problem. Now it sounds acceptable for what HK should be.

The problem is still that the amp/dsp is just intercepting the signal from the HK amp, and with that amplifying all the processing in the HK amp made to hide the fact how underpowered the amp is. On low volume the sound has a nice balance, a punch to the bass, but as soon as you start coming to higher levels, the bass leaves the chat. I can only assume that this is coming from the HK system, and the Alpha one DSP can't fully correct it (again, these are just my assumptions, I have no proof or testing done to confirm it).

[BroDoze]

Originally Posted by baj_baj

"worth it" is something very individual... For me it was worth it because the original HK system was just so terrible sounding coming from Audis B&O, any improvement was welcome.
Now.. honestly for the price, I was expecting more from the amp, for me it would be worth it around the 500€ point, when you compare what you get in the home audio world for the money. Maybe the speakers are just too cr*p to fully exploit the amp, I don't know, but I don't want to throw even more money at the problem. Now it sounds acceptable for what HK should be.

The problem is still that the amp/dsp is just intercepting the signal from the HK amp, and with that amplifying all the processing in the HK amp made to hide the fact how underpowered the amp is. On low volume the sound has a nice balance, a punch to the bass, but as soon as you start coming to higher levels, the bass leaves the chat. I can only assume that this is coming from the HK system, and the Alpha one DSP can't fully correct it (again, these are just my assumptions, I have no proof or testing done to confirm it).

Agreed. At 70% volume, the bass starts dropping off / getting limited. I think this is a software protection for the underseat subs. Unfortunately, this just gets amplified (pun intended) with the aftermarket stuff. The problem is with the source.

I spent more time dialing and EQing the whole set up. The only way I can get a clinical/studio sound that I prefer is to move the fader all the way to the front, removing the side and rear deck speakers completely. The more drivers you have playing audio, not the better. Unless every one of them is perfectly timed-aligned to the driver’s ears (which they are obviously not) you will get echo/reverb/reflection/muddiness in your sound.

Once I did that and adjusted and increased the bass and mid-bass to compensate it sounds a lot better. YMMV. I’ve never cared much for rear speakers. I want a perfect front stage / imaging. There’s enough natural ambient noise coming from the rear anyway that rear speakers aren’t needed, in most cases.

I honestly think that center channel is doing more harm than good. The front 3 mains are not time aligned with each other properly. That can really mess up the sound.

I’d be very interested in using a mic to time aligned for my head’s position. Has anybody here tried doing that?

I also had to reverse polarity (toggle switch) my amplified sub to get things to sound halfway proper - never had to do that before in any vehicle I’ve owned.

[///MoT]

The Alpha 1 amp is VERY customizable and capable, but requires you to connect it via USB cable to a tablet/laptop so you can use the DSP PC-Tool app to tweak things to your liking, with the help of a BimmerTech support person if you want/need. If this is something you'd rather not do, I'm not sure the amp would be "worth it". Just my $0.02.

[kenkamm]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

I spent more time dialing and EQing the whole set up. The only way I can get a clinical/studio sound that I prefer is to move the fader all the way to the front, removing the side and rear deck speakers completely. The more drivers you have playing audio, not the better. Unless every one of them is perfectly timed-aligned to the driver’s ears (which they are obviously not) you will get echo/reverb/reflection/muddiness in your sound.

This reminded me of my car audio competition days way back when. We didn't even install speakers in the rear of the car. It was all about the front stage.

I honestly think that center channel is doing more harm than good. The front 3 mains are not time aligned with each other properly. That can really mess up the sound.

Have you done a tape measure sanity check against the settings in the app?

I’d be very interested in using a mic to time aligned for my head’s position. Has anybody here tried doing that?

I have personally not come across anyone on this forum who has purchased the compatible mic for the audiotec-fischer Match UP 10DSP, which according to their site is the MTK1. However if you search for MTK1 on the site, you get no search results, and google searching around, it seems like an older product that's no longer generally sold. So I don't know what the current solution is. I wonder if the UMIK-1 from Mini-DSP would work. Maybe I will shoot audiotec-fischer an email.

[BroDoze]

Originally Posted by kenkamm

This reminded me of my car audio competition days way back when. We didn't even install speakers in the rear of the car. It was all about the front stage.

Have you done a tape measure sanity check against the settings in the app?


I have personally not come across anyone on this forum who has purchased the compatible mic for the audiotec-fischer Match UP 10DSP, which according to their site is the MTK1. However if you search for MTK1 on the site, you get no search results, and google searching around, it seems like an older product that's no longer generally sold. So I don't know what the current solution is. I wonder if the UMIK-1 from Mini-DSP would work. Maybe I will shoot audiotec-fischer an email.

Same! Couple of my cars went to nationals and placed, 2nd and 5th, way back in the day. No rear speakers, lol.

I haven’t installed the app - how do I get it? Thankfully I routed the USB cable in an accessible place.

I’m pretty sure if I can get into the DSP and there are distance settings, I can manually measure the speakers and verify with my ears with real-time adjustments.

[kenkamm]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

Same! Couple of my cars went to nationals and placed, 2nd and 5th, way back in the day. No rear speakers, lol.

That's amazing. I did well at local events but never went to nationals.

I haven’t installed the app - how do I get it? Thankfully I routed the USB cable in an accessible place.

Here is their download page: https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/t...ool/downloads/

Let us know your findings!

[BroDoze]

Originally Posted by kenkamm

That's amazing. I did well at local events but never went to nationals.

Here is their download page: https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/t...ool/downloads/

Let us know your findings!

Thanks a ton! I assume I want the pc-tool v5?

[kenkamm]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

Thanks a ton! I assume I want the pc-tool v5?

Yes indeed.

[whatthehuck]

you guys are making me go down the rabbit hole of audio design lol. I installed my amp and the software yesterday, borrowed a friends laptop for the day and freaked out for a second after I played some music because only deep bass was coming out of my driver door speaker, music was only playing on the left side of the car and when I faded everything to the left it went to the front. After learning the program I saw that half the channels were muted for some reason and the high and low passes were all fucky. Got it sorted out and sounding halfway decent, already better than the stock set up, but now I'm kinda toying with the idea of getting a cheap laptop and a mic and doing a full RTA setup. I just wanted to plug it in and make it sound good lol.

Before I go through all that, would anyone be willing to share their sound profiles that have already been set up, either by them or by bimmertech? Might try that out and if they sound good enough I'd just leave it.

[baj_baj]

I also tried the DSP software yesterday after I finally managed to hunt down a windows laptop and played around a bit. Turning up the gain made it already better, because now I have more volume in the "good range" of the HK amp. The problem is it still sounds a bit dirty, I have to look into it a bit more, maybe even with the bimmertech support. It sounds a bit as if the amp is clipping the whole time, but is far from it.
I don't want to mess with the EQ much, there are so many options for every individual channel, I have a feeling it's impossible to do a good job without a mic.

[///MoT]

Originally Posted by whatthehuck

<snip>
Before I go through all that, would anyone be willing to share their sound profiles that have already been set up, either by them or by bimmertech? Might try that out and if they sound good enough I'd just leave it.

Yep, send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you the profiles BimmerTech sent me, and one I modified to my liking to see if it suits you.


-Tom

[kenkamm]

I emailed audiotec-fischer asking about microphones and they said:

Hello, yes the MTK1 is available, you would need to purchase it from an authorized dealer. We can help you locate a dealer near you if you like. Also the UMIK-1 will work or any USB mic that you have a calibration file for. Please let me know if you have any questions.

The fact that the MiniDSP UMIK-1 will work is a big deal because it's 79 bucks and easy to find, whereas the MTK1 is like ~$350 and hard to find. And from what I have read, the UMIK-1 is quite a decent unit.

[///MoT]

Originally Posted by baj_baj

I also tried the DSP software yesterday after I finally managed to hunt down a windows laptop and played around a bit. Turning up the gain made it already better, because now I have more volume in the "good range" of the HK amp.

Yeah man, I turned up the overall gain to 10 lol! That way I can stay fairly low with the volume knob on the head unit. Stays pretty clean this way.

Originally Posted by baj_baj

The problem is it still sounds a bit dirty, I have to look into it a bit more, maybe even with the bimmertech support. It sounds a bit as if the amp is clipping the whole time, but is far from it.

Just to be sure.... have you set the head unit's controls (Bass, Treble, EQ) all flat, and the HK Logic 7 off?


-Tom

[///MoT]

Originally Posted by kenkamm

I emailed audiotec-fischer asking about microphones and they said:



The fact that the MiniDSP UMIK-1 will work is a big deal because it's 79 bucks and easy to find, whereas the MTK1 is like ~$350 and hard to find. And from what I have read, the UMIK-1 is quite a decent unit.

That is awesome news, thanks for sharing! I might be willing to spend $79 just to see what sort of changes it would make to the setup I finally have that I like, tweaking by ear.


-Tom

[AdonisP91]

Originally Posted by kenkamm

I emailed audiotec-fischer asking about microphones and they said:



The fact that the MiniDSP UMIK-1 will work is a big deal because it's 79 bucks and easy to find, whereas the MTK1 is like ~$350 and hard to find. And from what I have read, the UMIK-1 is quite a decent unit.

The UMIK-1 is very good, I used it on my home theatre when I setup Dirac Live. I also tested it with the Audiotech-fisher DSP software in Demo mode, the software recognizes it and the calibration files just fine.

Regarding the Alpha one amp and the HK sound, one of the main problems with the factory sound is BMW is implementing a form of Dynamic Loudness Control. Audiotech-Fischer has a support article on this and explain how to tune it out. Unfortunately when I contacted Bimmertech they don’t seem to do that by default with the Alpha One Amp sound profiles they provide and one would need to do it themselves afterwards.

Basically at low volumes the HK system is boosting the bass and treble, but as the volume goes up they nerf the bass & treble, presumably to protect the speakers. For a truly optimal sound one wouldn’t want any loudness correction and would want to time align the sound for a specific listening position, say the driver or the passenger. Since we all sit at different positions, naturally a one size fits all time alignment is less than ideal.

Similarly, though Audiotech Fischer provide a default target sound curve that closely resembles the ideal Harmon Kardon target curve, I don’t know which target sound curve BimmerTech uses, but that too could be adjusted with the DSP software.

So though the Alpha One Amp installs and integrates nicely, it seems to me one would want to make quite a few adjustments after installing it.

Support article: https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/k...p-pc-tool/dlc/

[AdonisP91]

Originally Posted by whatthehuck

you guys are making me go down the rabbit hole of audio design lol. I installed my amp and the software yesterday, borrowed a friends laptop for the day and freaked out for a second after I played some music because only deep bass was coming out of my driver door speaker, music was only playing on the left side of the car and when I faded everything to the left it went to the front. After learning the program I saw that half the channels were muted for some reason and the high and low passes were all fucky. Got it sorted out and sounding halfway decent, already better than the stock set up, but now I'm kinda toying with the idea of getting a cheap laptop and a mic and doing a full RTA setup. I just wanted to plug it in and make it sound good lol.

Before I go through all that, would anyone be willing to share their sound profiles that have already been set up, either by them or by bimmertech? Might try that out and if they sound good enough I'd just leave it.

Audiotech Fischer have sound profiles you can download. They will be especially helpful
since they already match all the channel inputs for the HK system. From there within the software you can setup the time alignments and do the full RTA fairly easily. From my link choose the 3 or 4 series and UP10 DSP.

https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/m...ase/soundIndex

If you go to the bottom of the next link you can download the pink noise sound files for the RTA testing within the DSP software. Look for DSP PC-Tool audio signals. https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/t...ool/downloads/

ETA: I don’t have my car yet, I placed an order at the beginning of the month so I am only expecting delivery close to March 2025 or perhaps a bit later. Once I have it I’d be happy to share sound profiles if no one else has done so yet. I think if you email BimmerTech they should also share it, they told me they would when I mentioned I wanted to play around with the system and have a backup if I mess things up. But I haven’t ordered the Alpha One Amp yet.

[BroDoze]

Holy cow. I’ve spent the last 3 hours tweaking inside the PC Tool. Wow, what a difference! As I suspected the time alignment was all jacked. I took measurements to a tripod I set up in the drivers seat and got it 90% dialed just doing that. I then fine-tweaked the last 10% by ear. I have a crisp front stage now with good imaging and tight midbass. I was also able to get my RF sub all time-aligned and dialed in. There are some certain frequencies (the usual suspects 1Khz-2Khz-ish) that are pretty harsh. It is much easier to tone these down using the DSP’s EQ vs the car’s EQ. What a difference though. Dayum.

That is interesting about the dynamic loudness - I suspected something like that was happening as I was chasing channel sound levels for quite a while at various different volume levels. I’ve gotta get back in and disable that if I can.

[BroDoze]

Originally Posted by ///MoT

Yeah man, I turned up the overall gain to 10 lol! That way I can stay fairly low with the volume knob on the head unit. Stays pretty clean this way.

-Tom

Where is the global gain control? I had to adjust gain at each channel, which was a pain.

Setting a high global could possibly be a way to avoid the dynamic loudness discussed above, too.

[AdonisP91]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

Where is the global gain control? I had to adjust gain at each channel, which was a pain.

Setting a high global could possibly be a way to avoid the dynamic loudness discussed above, too.

I read in other threads people were complaining about the blinker sounds and the start chimes, and other system bongs as being extremely loud and overly amplified after installing the Alpha One Amp. Did you experience that yourself? Trying to fix the DLC issue with channel gain output might exacerbate this other issue?

Perhaps you were able to fix the blinker problem by adjusting the input gain under the DCM tab top right, and then under the Signal Management tab on the left side?