[HNLG87]

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo

Thanks! Those are some great point and I am envious of your garage! I mean, you have a "true" daily! I wish I could have a 3 car lineup!

I get what you mean with the recent Honda "Tax" with those Type R/S, the markups on those are still insane.

I think your comments about the way the G87 M2 handles is minimizing my concerns about its weight, thanks!

Do you have the buckets in your car too?

No buckets here - I got it as more of a daily w/ occasional autox, and while I love the way they look there is just no track here to really take advantage of them. I did get the carbon roof, though

And thanks, the XC40 really is the best "car" of them all. Living in a city it's just the zippiest of the 3 when fighting traffic because of the EV drivetrain. I feels like it beats the M2 stoplight to stoplight more reliably and closes gaps/lane switch impulses faster because it just does what you are thinking of doing immediately without any shifting/turbo lag, etc.

Back to the M2, yes the weight isn't an issue for me, but maybe because I am used to the EV now, too. I feel the M2 has shifted forward into this new era of cars, and if I sold the S2000 that raw/tossable feeling would be gone in my garage.

What I'm trying to figure out is if hitting Sport+ mode in the M2 and hitting boost to redline with my daughter giggling in the back is enough for me to forget the S2000. Still not sure, and it'll probably be fuzzy for the next few years until I get a Porsche

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

Again, I don't need your permission nor invitation to post. When you attack, I will attack back. I didn't call you any names nor make derogatory comments to you (although you deserved it).

If you need others to make your decisions for you, I feel sorry for you. Maybe best you keep your kiddie Speed3...or better yet, go for the GT4.

Oh, and since I am not leaving I guess you are.. don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

Why would I be leaving? You obviously needed an outlet to act like an ass, otherwise, why did you even post here in the first place? Go ahead, feel free to talk like an ass, no one's stopping you.

And clearly you didn't read my thread at all, maybe you were too busy being a dumbass. I didn't ask people to help me make my decision, and I said I'm even 1-2 years away from a purchase. I came here to ask people's ownership experience of the car to see if it lines up with with my intent.

That's hilarious, you didn't even read the thread but decided to open your mouth anyways.

That's ok, I'm sure you don't understand the concept of being helpful and I've given up trying to explain it to you. Keep running your dumbass mouth, I ain't going to stop you.

3 pages, and 2 idiots have surfaced, I guess that's not too bad of a statistics for an internet forum.

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Originally Posted by HNLG87

No buckets here - I got it as more of a daily w/ occasional autox, and while I love the way they look there is just no track here to really take advantage of them. I did get the carbon roof, though

And thanks, the XC40 really is the best "car" of them all. Living in a city it's just the zippiest of the 3 when fighting traffic because of the EV drivetrain. I feels like it beats the M2 stoplight to stoplight more reliably and closes gaps/lane switch impulses faster because it just does what you are thinking of doing immediately without any shifting/turbo lag, etc.

Back to the M2, yes the weight isn't an issue for me, but maybe because I am used to the EV now, too. I feel the M2 has shifted forward into this new era of cars, and if I sold the S2000 that raw/tossable feeling would be gone in my garage.

What I'm trying to figure out is if hitting Sport+ mode in the M2 and hitting boost to redline with my daughter giggling in the back is enough for me to forget the S2000. Still not sure, and it'll probably be fuzzy for the next few years until I get a Porsche

I wasn't aware the contents of the Carbon Package can be split up? Because I'll probably just ask for the buckets (provided that they are comfortable on longer trips). I don't really care about a carbon roof or other carbon fiber bits.

[TheLegend]

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo

Wow, that came out of nowhere! Haha thanks for that input!

I haven't considered the M3 because well... I personally think that car has grown a bit too large for me? I hear you on the steering/shifting feel. And I'm glad you came from an older era so you have know what sort of feeling and emotions I'm referring to.

I guess I just have to accept this is how new cars will be?

P.S. I personally think the M3 styling is easier on the eyes than the M2...

I don't know how much longer manufacturers will even keep making fully ICE cars with a manual. Supposedly the G87 M2 will be the last BMW manual. If you you didn't need a practical car I'd recommend a manual MKV supra, my brothers got one which I've driven on multiple occasion. I just don't enjoy with BMW manual, and I've tried a bunch now Z4M coupe, E92 M3, E90 335i, F80 M3, and G80 M3. I actually got my F82 M4 in DCT cause of that but that got so old so quick for daily driving even if I did drive it in "manual mode" 99% of the time. That's why you need to actually test drive it cause who knows maybe you'll love it. When I test drove the GT4 everything that manual was just pure bliss, everything felt good and natural that I was able to instantly drive it smoothly.

G80 M3 is the much more practical car in my opinion. It's large but at least you'll seat more passengers comfortably. G87 M2 is as large a previous generation e92 M3 but at a greater cost of rear seat passenger head room which is actually less than the e92 m3 or the previous gen f87 M2. Though at that cost I would seriously consider the CT4V or CT5V Blackwing. I have not test driven one but I heard the steering and manual are excellent.

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Originally Posted by TheLegend

I don't know how much longer manufacturers will even keep making fully ICE cars with a manual. Supposedly the G87 M2 will be the last BMW manual. If you you didn't need a practical car I'd recommend a manual MKV supra, my brothers got one which I've driven on multiple occasion. I just don't enjoy with BMW manual, and I've tried a bunch now Z4M coupe, E92 M3, E90 335i, F80 M3, and G80 M3. I actually got my F82 M4 in DCT cause of that but that got so old so quick for daily driving even if I did drive it in "manual mode" 99% of the time. That's why you need to actually test drive it cause who knows maybe you'll love it. When I test drove the GT4 everything that manual was just pure bliss, everything felt good and natural that I was able to instantly drive it smoothly.

G80 M3 is the much more practical car in my opinion. It's large but at least you'll seat more passengers comfortably. G87 M2 is as large a previous generation e92 M3 but at a greater cost of rear seat passenger head room which is actually less than the e92 m3 or the previous gen f87 M2. Though at that cost I would seriously consider the CT4V or CT5V Blackwing. I have not test driven one but I heard the steering and manual are excellent.

Dude, I'm on the same boat. I think I mentioned in a few posts here, besides trying to bat away the two idiots that the GT4 is also a possibility, but will definitely put me in a bit of a financial hole... haha

I've considered the GT4 as a far away/near impossible scenario because that purchase will be a tribute to ICE with that brilliant motor.

But let's focus on the car of this forums, G87 M2 for now. (GT4, who knows if that'll ever happen)

[deneed4spd]

Coming from old e36, e90, f87, wanted a new m2 but I couldn’t get over the looks and more numbness of steering and manual. I looked at Porsche but the Porsche tax is even worse than type r around where I lived. I took a big leap and went to something I would have never thought of going and got a CT5 BW. Yep I don’t think the interior is that good and styling is ok. But wow, the LT4, manual and suspension are out of this world. It’s unreal how fast it is and how well it handles corners even with its sized. Any BW you buy comes with free 2 day track so I got to go and drive a CT4 BW on some auto x and skid pad. Definitely feel how much more nimble it is but does lack that crazy LT4 power. I do although miss the light chasis so am eyeing maybe getting a type r down the road when it settles down. From what I’m reading, I don’t think a car exists that fits what u want. Not in a modern car anyhow besides paying Porsche $$. Even then the reliability and maintenance of them is eye popping.

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Originally Posted by deneed4spd

Coming from old e36, e90, f87, wanted a new m2 but I couldn’t get over the looks and more numbness of steering and manual. I looked at Porsche but the Porsche tax is even worse than type r around where I lived. I took a big leap and went to something I would have never thought of going and got a CT5 BW. Yep I don’t think the interior is that good and styling is ok. But wow, the LT4, manual and suspension are out of this world. It’s unreal how fast it is and how well it handles corners even with its sized. Any BW you buy comes with free 2 day track so I got to go and drive a CT4 BW on some auto x and skid pad. Definitely feel how much more nimble it is but does lack that crazy LT4 power. I do although miss the light chasis so am eyeing maybe getting a type r down the road when it settles down. From what I’m reading, I don’t think a car exists that fits what u want. Not in a modern car anyhow besides paying Porsche $$. Even then the reliability and maintenance of them is eye popping.

Subtly putting the BW back in the picture for me.... thanks! Haha

And yeah, I think I just have to accept my affinity of the type of cars I like is just from a bygone era, and I have to accept today's modern cars are just different.

Thanks man!

[yuzu]

Originally Posted by Rx-7ames

The M240 has over 400 hp. Dyno numbers for the M2 are over 500. Dinan measured the M240 at 411 hp and the M2 at 530. The M240 is a viable alternative.

You also mentioned no competitive vehicles for the price. You can consider the Audi RS3, Cadillac CT4-V BW. I would say the Porsche 718 is not a competitor because of price, but maybe it is if you are going to drop 10k just on an aero package. Mayne a 718 isn't too much of a reach.

No stock M2 is making anywhere near 500 hp, not sure where you're getting your information from

[deneed4spd]

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo

Subtly putting the BW back in the picture for me.... thanks! Haha

And yeah, I think I just have to accept my affinity of the type of cars I like is just from a bygone era, and I have to accept today's modern cars are just different.

Thanks man!

Ha! I haven’t found many who have said anything negative from a driver engagement for BWs. I put engagement higher priority than interior material. . Not to mention my teenage kid can’t fit in the back seat of the new m2. How bmw made the head room of g87 smaller than a e36 or f87 but outside bigger is a mystery to me. I’m 5’6 and I don’t fit in the back. Sad! Good luck with your search.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by yuzu

No stock M2 is making anywhere near 500 hp, not sure where you're getting your information from

There's more than one video out there showing stock M2 dynoing ~470 whp. That's well over 500 crank hp.

https://g87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2008187

[yuzu]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

There's more than one video out there showing stock M2 dynoing ~470 whp. That's well over 500 crank hp.

https://g87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2008187

Nobody seriously refers to crank hp when talking about hp lol

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by yuzu

Nobody seriously refers to crank hp when talking about hp lol

Lol - actually everybody who discusses engine power output refers to crank horsepower, because...oh yeah, that's the vehicle component generating said power. To what figure do you think manufacturers are referring when they release the power output of their vehicles?

You could've simply indicated your initial claim was incorrect, but instead came back with another incorrect statement. Good job

Btw - 470 is pretty close to 500

[Rx-7ames]

Originally Posted by yuzu

No stock M2 is making anywhere near 500 hp, not sure where you're getting your information from

You quoted my reference. Dinan measured the M2 at 530.

[yuzu]

I mean we all know BMW publishes "BHP" numbers that are actually just WHP lol. I'm not going around telling people that my car has 550 hp

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

Would be nice if I had that same experience near me, but I'm not so lucky. 3 local dealers, 2 of which owned by the same group. Not good experiences at either from a service standpoint. The 3rd, where we bought the X3, we almost walked on it because they just kept jerking around after I had already confirmed everything via email & phone. Then they were very patronizing to my wife while she was there.

I have a 2nd residence with 2 dealers in proximity. One is a Hendricks-owned dealership and they add a $12-1,500 "dealership pkg" to every new vehicle so I won't use them out of principle. I've purchased accessories from the other one & their parts dept personnel were really nice, so I'll give them a shot if I need service when the car is down here.

Well that's unfortunate. I bought my M2 from a Hendricks dealer. The whole process went well. Pretty much "bought" the car while at the port. No ADM. Oh, there was a bit of a back and forth regarding dealer installed "options". Things like tint, door guards, nitrogen filled tires, and some interior protection treatment. I said *no* to all of them. Long story short all were removed from the quote and none would be applied to the car when it arrived. But I had to at least once tell the salesman if Option X was *required* then I was not interested in the car. But the process to get these things removed was not horrific.

Car arrived at the dealer and after a few days was able to drive there (dealer 200 miles from me) and complete the purchase.

Don't know what the selling dealer's service is like. Fortunately I have a BMW dealer just 5 miles away from where I live and its service has been very good. Good for my 2022 BMW 230i, 2022 MINI Cooper S, my 2023 MINI JCW, the M2, and come next Wednesday I'll have my 2024 230i xDrive in for alignment and oil/filter service and I believe I'll be able to report all went well.

You are doing the right thing. Trying a different dealer. I bet the dealer with the good parts department has a good service department, too.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Rx-7ames

You quoted my reference. Dinan measured the M2 at 530.

Looking at the Dinan graph, I think the way BMW programs the ECU is to have a flat torque curve at 600Nm (443 lbft) to close to the quoted power peak at 6250RPM. The engine control from a sensor perspective, combined with atmospheric condition variation will cause some variation from this, but the torque plateau is the target state. They then quote the 550Nm torque plateau and range (2650 - 5870) as the spec to ensure all engines from a tolerance and operation environment perspective will be above that value. The power output is derived directly from the torque, so if torque is programmed to drop off at a given RPM, the power peak will be at that RPM or a bit higher.

With the same engine tuning for the automatic and manual transmissions, 600Nm is the torque limit ZF specifies for the manual transmission.

What this means from a power output perspective if the torque is maintained as a plateau to the power peak is:

Torque (Nm) x 2π x RPM/60 = Power(W)
600 x 2 x 3.14159 x 6250 / 60 = 393,238W (393kW / 527bhp)

[xxyion]

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo

Maybe, I was definitely more active on S2000 forums, but not so much anymore. Since the pandemic, I actually lost interests in cars, and more specifically, lost interests in the S2000 community as I found the demographic of that community is shifter towards to kids who "do it for the boyz" and hard parking their cars. Not my cup of tea. So I sort of dropped out of the community. And just focused on making the car "mine" and trying to get more track hours under my belt. But anyways, good to hear from you again if we ever came across one another in those S2000 forums!

You mentioned the weight... I mean yeah everyone is telling me that I won't "feel" it. But to your point, I know it's still there. But I feel like this is just something I have to accept with modern cars, unless I go for something bespoke like a Porsche product.

I envy you man, I'm torn between getting the G87 M2, or sucking it up and keep my Mazdaspeed 3 and try to get lucky with a GT4 myself.

Don't envy me too much lol. My GT4 ended up being a lemon and so after 7 months Porsche bought the car back. It was supposed to be my forever car and couldn't even get a replacement allocation as they had stopped production of the car already. Had considered buying another one used, but i knew that if i did, i'd just keep thinking "why couldn't mine just work" and it wouldnt be the same. The G82 for me is the replacement for that until i can save up enough for a GT3.

But yeah i was active in the S2k community like back in 2019 and also dropped off during COVID.

I'll say this though. The M2 is not a bad choice especially if you are looking for a daily driver thats in the 60k range that has back seats and decent trunk space. I totally understand your apprehension especially with the looks, but as many others have said, it's A LOT better in person. Same with the G82. I used to hate how this car looks, and for whatever reason all photos make the beaver teeth look HUGE. but in person it's way better. Theres also just...not much options too unfortunetly. Especially if you are trying to avoid the USDM cars. GR Corolla could be a fun choice and fits your style i think, theres always the GR86 but it sounds like you want something with a lot more oomph. If you're willing to sacrifice a lot of the new tech, the F87 Competition is actually a fantastic car. I had one for a year, hated the Manual Transmission but tons of power, a lot lighter than the current generation and all around a rowdy car with a ton of personality. Much more raw than my G82, and i think one of the best looking BMWs ever made.

Some pics of my old cars. As you can see i have a thing for green lol.





And the new one

[DrJLag420]

This thread blew up right quick. I wanna join in.

The M2 is great. Good price for what you get. I like it. Like others have said, go give it a spin if you can. Then you can see what you think. None of us can tell you what to drive. Drive what you love. With that said, here’s what I would do, especially since you seem to be pining for a GT4. Skip the M2. Pay a little more, go get the P-Car.

I suggest you sell your S2000 and replace it with 987.2 Spyder. Then go buy a 718 Cayman GTS 4.0. Or maybe buy a 718 Boxster GTS 4.0. Then skip the Spyder. I think the GT4 would be nice, but couldn’t get an allocation. The lowly GTS will do…

Or if you can find a used reasonably priced GT4, go for that.

Gotta pay to play.

Happy Motoring!

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo

I wasn't aware the contents of the Carbon Package can be split up? Because I'll probably just ask for the buckets (provided that they are comfortable on longer trips). I don't really care about a carbon roof or other carbon fiber bits.

It isn't. The only way to get the seats is with the Carbon Package for $9900. You can spec the carbon roof ($2600), Carbon Interior ($800), and M Driver's Package ($2500) but not the actual seats.
This is their way of getting an extra few grand out of you as the actual cost of the M Driver's Package is $1500, plus if you're a CCA member, you're getting an extra 15% off of that so that really adds insult to injury.
Regardless, the seats are worth it no matter how you cut it.

[Rx-7ames]

Originally Posted by yuzu

I mean we all know BMW publishes "BHP" numbers that are actually just WHP lol. I'm not going around telling people that my car has 550 hp

You shouldn't tell people your car has 550 hp. It has been shown over and over that it has 460-470 at the wheel, and 530-540 at the crank. This is very well established. I'm surprised you haven't seen these numbers before.

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Originally Posted by xxyion

Don't envy me too much lol. My GT4 ended up being a lemon and so after 7 months Porsche bought the car back. It was supposed to be my forever car and couldn't even get a replacement allocation as they had stopped production of the car already. Had considered buying another one used, but i knew that if i did, i'd just keep thinking "why couldn't mine just work" and it wouldnt be the same. The G82 for me is the replacement for that until i can save up enough for a GT3.

But yeah i was active in the S2k community like back in 2019 and also dropped off during COVID.

I'll say this though. The M2 is not a bad choice especially if you are looking for a daily driver thats in the 60k range that has back seats and decent trunk space. I totally understand your apprehension especially with the looks, but as many others have said, it's A LOT better in person. Same with the G82. I used to hate how this car looks, and for whatever reason all photos make the beaver teeth look HUGE. but in person it's way better. Theres also just...not much options too unfortunetly. Especially if you are trying to avoid the USDM cars. GR Corolla could be a fun choice and fits your style i think, theres always the GR86 but it sounds like you want something with a lot more oomph. If you're willing to sacrifice a lot of the new tech, the F87 Competition is actually a fantastic car. I had one for a year, hated the Manual Transmission but tons of power, a lot lighter than the current generation and all around a rowdy car with a ton of personality. Much more raw than my G82, and i think one of the best looking BMWs ever made.

Some pics of my old cars. As you can see i have a thing for green lol.





And the new one

The GT4 is a pipe dream at the moment. I'd love for that to be a reality but for now, that's out of my reach. There's another scenario where I suck it up and get a boring daily, keep the S2000, and get the GT4 and have 2 high revving NA legendary motors in my garage.

And if people are asking me why I'd keep the S2000 around, well... track day insurance is wayyyyyy cheaper with the S2000 along with other track related consumables.

Let's keep the focus on the G87 M2 for now. You mentioned the F87 and I absolutely considered it. But given the prices for a F87 M2 Competition, I may as well go for the newer gen G87 because it'll have newer tech and amenities. And I think that's more important if it'll be my daily driver primarily. Older F87 is definitely better looking than the G87. It's far more elegant.

Love your green cars man, when done right, green on cars is gorgeous! And you've pulled them off nicely!

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Originally Posted by DrJLag420

This thread blew up right quick. I wanna join in.

The M2 is great. Good price for what you get. I like it. Like others have said, go give it a spin if you can. Then you can see what you think. None of us can tell you what to drive. Drive what you love. With that said, here’s what I would do, especially since you seem to be pining for a GT4. Skip the M2. Pay a little more, go get the P-Car.

I suggest you sell your S2000 and replace it with 987.2 Spyder. Then go buy a 718 Cayman GTS 4.0. Or maybe buy a 718 Boxster GTS 4.0. Then skip the Spyder. I think the GT4 would be nice, but couldn’t get an allocation. The lowly GTS will do…

Or if you can find a used reasonably priced GT4, go for that.

Gotta pay to play.

Happy Motoring!

Ha, thanks for that input! I'm probably not going to sell my S2000 ever, because it's so reliable, fun, relatively inexpensive and will continue to appreciate in value. Not to mention, track day insurance is way cheaper for that car than any of the Porsche products.

Reasonably priced GT4 are still going to be in the 6 figures range, that's currently out of my range for now. My Mazdaspeed will still safely operate for another year or so, maybe my situation will change by next year where I can consider a GT4 instead.

There is a scenario in my head where I could actually start planning to put aside money for an used GT4, then spend the $4-5k to refresh the Mazdaspeed's suspension and steering column. And have a reliable, fun, and familiar daily while having 2 high revving legendary motors in my garage.

But for now, I would be focusing my research on the M2.

As for the Spyder, that top could get old for me REAL quick... haha