[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Carefree

My understanding is a properly worn tin foil hat enables car and driver total invisibility from all external intrusion.

I heard that from a friend.

Starting back in around 2005/2006 I wrote software for automotive test equipment. These devices communicated with the car's electronics and stored data. The data could be downloaded via a computer connected to the device and software on the computer would format the data. Latter versions had a cell phone connection (and an embedded GPS device to record location) and sent the data to a cloud server and the user could view the data.

Also I modified the software to meet the requirements of several insurance companies that were running trials on trip logging and driving behavior -- speeding and braking events among other things.

(And somewhere in that time I did a version for a government agency which wanted a device that could be plugged into the vehicle and in a few seconds determine if the car was emissions compliant.)

My employer was a bit early to this market.

As part of my job I attended a conference -- ToolTech 2014 -- held in Sonoma CA with the conference running several days at the Fairmont Inn there. The conference was attended by hundreds of people in the automotive industry. (The room had a seating capacity of over 400 and there were people standing.) The big topic was vehicle/driving data collection.

And this was not a recent event but rather around 10 years ago. April 28 to May 1 2014.

Later in 2014 my employer decided to leave this automotive test equipment business and focus on other products in the consumer space. But of course a number of other companies turned their focus to vehicle/driving data collection.

A change though in the vehicle/driver telematics business was rather than have to plug a 3rd party device into the car's OBD2 port auto makers built this telematics into the car's electronics.

Better make sure that foil hat is cinched on nice and tight...

[Ugly Kar]

Originally Posted by RootsTootsMagoots

I'm not sure what your point is? The claim I responded to alleged that EVs are the cause for higher insurance premiums for everyone. That's complete nonsense.

Did you even read your own link? They looked at one Kia model, and the EV had lower claim frequency under all applicable coverages. It's cost times frequency, while inexplicably, you all seem to focus solely on cost. In my own experience, a $60k+ 500 hp EV was about 33% cheaper to insure than a $60k+ 500 hp M2. If EVs were the cause of rate hikes, you'd expect rates to reflect that somewhat.

There are many reasons to not like EVs (after all, I went EV -> ICE). However, at least provide valid reasons. The blanket claim that "EVs are causing muh insurance to increase" is delusional.

I tried to help you, but you decided to be a jerk. I would imagine a 400+ hp Lexus LS costs about half as much to insure and an M2 even though the price is about the same. Do some research on how cars are insurance rated.

The data is there for those who wish to access it, but I'm not doing any more work for you.

[Carefree]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Starting back in around 2005/2006 I wrote software for automotive test equipment. These devices communicated with the car's electronics and stored data. The data could be downloaded via a computer connected to the device and software on the computer would format the data. Latter versions had a cell phone connection (and an embedded GPS device to record location) and sent the data to a cloud server and the user could view the data.

Also I modified the software to meet the requirements of several insurance companies that were running trials on trip logging and driving behavior — speeding and braking events among other things.

(And somewhere in that time I did a version for a government agency which wanted a device that could be plugged into the vehicle and in a few seconds determine if the car was emissions compliant.)

My employer was a bit early to this market.

As part of my job I attended a conference — ToolTech 2014 — held in Sonoma CA with the conference running several days at the Fairmont Inn there. The conference was attended by hundreds of people in the automotive industry. (The room had a seating capacity of over 400 and there were people standing.) The big topic was vehicle/driving data collection.

And this was not a recent event but rather around 10 years ago. April 28 to May 1 2014.

Later in 2014 my employer decided to leave this automotive test equipment business and focus on other products in the consumer space. But of course a number of other companies turned their focus to vehicle/driving data collection.

A change though in the [...]

I’ll tell my friend to contact you regarding the alleged expertise.

[aerobod]

Although in the US information sharing to 3rd parties with implied consent seems to be possible, this isn’t the case in Europe and Canada. GDPR in Europe and PIPEDA in Canada restrict information sharing to 3rd parties without specific consent when it is used for purposes other than the primary conducting of business between BMW and customers, which would not cover sending of info to an organisation such as an insurance company. The only exception to this is information relating to law enforcement.

In reading the BMW Canada ConnectedDrive terms and conditions, they seem to be consistent with the privacy legislation requirements. We also don’t have any opt-out options in ConnectedDrive to select, as opt-out for BMW sending of personal customer info to 3rd parties is the default legal position.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Starting back in around 2005/2006 I wrote software for automotive test equipment. These devices communicated with the car's electronics and stored data. The data could be downloaded via a computer connected to the device and software on the computer would format the data. Latter versions had a cell phone connection (and an embedded GPS device to record location) and sent the data to a cloud server and the user could view the data.

Also I modified the software to meet the requirements of several insurance companies that were running trials on trip logging and driving behavior -- speeding and braking events among other things.

(And somewhere in that time I did a version for a government agency which wanted a device that could be plugged into the vehicle and in a few seconds determine if the car was emissions compliant.)

My employer was a bit early to this market.

As part of my job I attended a conference -- ToolTech 2014 -- held in Sonoma CA with the conference running several days at the Fairmont Inn there. The conference was attended by hundreds of people in the automotive industry. (The room had a seating capacity of over 400 and there were people standing.) The big topic was vehicle/driving data collection.

And this was not a recent event but rather around 10 years ago. April 28 to May 1 2014.

Later in 2014 my employer decided to leave this automotive test equipment business and focus on other products in the consumer space. But of course a number of other companies turned their focus to vehicle/driving data collection.

A change though in the vehicle/driver telematics business was rather than have to plug a 3rd party device into the car's OBD2 port auto makers built this telematics into the car's electronics.

Better make sure that foil hat is cinched on nice and tight...

...on a totally unrelated note, does anyone know where the in-car SIM is located?

[BMWforest]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

I'll just say that the insurance companies could be doing whatever they want behind the scenes. This big green push is using all sorts of incentives to push people towards EVs. I wouldn't put it past them being told to collectively make EVs (and their insurance policies) more attractive to buyers/owners, and then spreading the real cost of EVs to the rest of the non-EV policy holders. Anything is possible. So unless you have factual evidence to the contrary, using blanket statements as fact, with no proof, is... silly.

The important word you used for your scenario is "could be". Of course, there could be leprechauns too. Asking someone for "factual evidence" to disprove an imaginary hypothetical is a bit much. The burden is upon you to prove your theory. To claim it's true, provide "factual evidence", otherwise, your suspicions are just... silly.

[BMWforest]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I completely deactivated mine as well. No “intelligent routes” or reminders for me, thanks.

The bottom line is that BMW is not sharing your data.

Log in and go to your car in My Garage on the BMWusa.com web site. Click on View Vehicle Profile, link is just to the right and below the description. On the top of the new page, you will see four menu options. Choose the forth, CarData. Here you can read more about BMW's policy, see if any third-party has permission to see your record (and remove them if desired), and ask for a copy of your Report. They are very emphatic that you are in control of who sees your data.

BMW is not sharing your driving info with insurance companies.

[RemoWilliams84]

When I logged into MyGarage this morning on desktop I had a notice to accept the Terms of Service for BMWConnectedDrive. In it I found this. It doesn't say they will share your data with insurance, but they can if you allow them. Who knows if it's opt in or opt out. Little too close to comfort for me.

I couldn't find the page that let's me disable Connected Drive. Maybe it's because I haven't accepted the TOS.

[Zatellia]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Here’s my setup. Why would I share the stuff I’m not sharing? I think I get what I need with the stuff I have on. Still too much IMO LOL But to say yes to the rest is just beyond me…

How did you find these options? I assume its on the phone app but i was unable to find them

[akumachu]

Originally Posted by Zatellia

How did you find these options? I assume its on the phone app but i was unable to find them

It is probably geo specific option. I notice in the app, I have "US - English" and he is in Canada, thus probably has different legal mandate than the US.

[rons e92]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Open the app, on the main screen scroll down to “Settings”.

Click the blue “Settings” link.
You’ll see those options in the “Privacy Settings” under Data Privacy. Unless, as mentioned, this is market exclusive.

What the heck...

[baron95]

You guys are falling for the theatrics - while you focus on the bogus news stories of sharing data, you ignore the real causes for car insurance rates to shoot up:

1 - Laws that prevent insurance companies from using your credit score and other signs of being a responsible citizen to rate you.

2 - The incredible amount of illegal immigrants, criminals, and the like driving around uninsured and with total disregard for laws and rules.

3 - The incredible rise in car theft. That causes the theft loss, but, more importantly, generate a ton of accidents as those cars are driven around with nothing to loose.

4 - The laws and rules preventing law enforcement to target high crime areas and high crime populations. If you stop and question a male teen in crime infested area, you have to also stop and question a grandma coming out of church - you know - you have to be equitable.

5 - The unavailability of technical/skilled labor for repairs, because our government is preaching that college and college only is the path to success.

6 - General attitude that the "rich", you know these BMW owners, need to pay (for others).

Put it all together and there is a ton of government policy driving higher auto insurance rates.

AND - get this straight ....

It is a feature of their policies, not a bug.

No, they don't want you to have nice things.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by baron95

You guys are falling for the theatrics - while you focus on the bogus news stories of sharing data, you ignore the real causes for car insurance rates to shoot up:

1 - Laws that prevent insurance companies from using your credit score and other signs of being a responsible citizen to rate you.

2 - The incredible amount of illegal immigrants, criminals, and the like driving around uninsured and with total disregard for laws and rules.

3 - The incredible rise in car theft. That causes the theft loss, but, more importantly, generate a ton of accidents as those cars are driven around with nothing to loose.

4 - The laws and rules preventing law enforcement to target high crime areas and high crime populations. If you stop and question a male teen in crime infested area, you have to also stop and question a grandma coming out of church - you know - you have to be equitable.

5 - The unavailability of technical/skilled labor for repairs, because our government is preaching that college and college only is the path to success.

6 - General attitude that the "rich", you know these BMW owners, need to pay (for others).

Put it all together and there is a ton of government policy driving higher auto insurance rates.

AND - get this straight ....

It is a feature of their policies, not a bug.

No, they don't want you to have nice things.

Except it's almost none of these. Tinfoil hat much? A quick search shows that insurance companies themselves cite increases in vehicle cost, repair cost, and labor cost as the main driver. Increased loss related to natural disasters is also a part of it. Almost all the rise in car theft is Kia/Hyundai alone and if you really believe insurance has spiked because of illegals that somehow didn't exist before 2020 you need to stop watching certain news channels. Bankrate claims that, adjusted for income:

State with the lowest true cost: Massachusetts
State with the highest true cost: Louisiana
Metro area with the lowest true cost: Seattle
Metro area with the highest true cost: Detroit

This is not some deliberate government conspiracy to deprive you of a BMW. It is simply the result of inflation, price gouging, driving habits, and weather.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by chris719

if you really believe insurance has spiked because of illegals that somehow didn't exist before 2020 you need to stop watching certain news channels. Bankrate claims that, adjusted for income: ....

You fell for it....you used the "adjusted for income" - that is exactly the point. If you have a nice car, meaning you are in a high income area, you have to pay.

Re illegal immigrants (since you chose to pick on only that one sub topic), it is not illegal immigration that changed. It is that since 2020 enforcement of laws related to driving with expired tags, no insurance and the like, and all the proactive broken-windows enforcement ceased in many urban areas. It is the lack of enforcement that is new, not illegal immigration.

You and I will have insurance regardless if there is enforcement or not. But a growing part of the population will do anything they can get away with it.

[Tag]

My rate went up 20% and I did everything they mentioned in this video to bring it down.

[Bimmerfun82]

Mine’s up 15 or 20%. It has more to do with the idiots out there driving recklessly and the price of cars than anything else. More than 20% is suspicious, I think. Maybe increase your deductible or make other changes if possible within reason..

[Carefree]

Originally Posted by chris719

Except it's almost none of these. Tinfoil hat much? A quick search shows that insurance companies themselves cite increases in vehicle cost, repair cost, and labor cost as the main driver. Increased loss related to natural disasters is also a part of it. Almost all the rise in car theft is Kia/Hyundai alone and if you really believe insurance has spiked because of illegals that somehow didn't exist before 2020 you need to stop watching certain news channels. Bankrate claims that, adjusted for income:

State with the lowest true cost: Massachusetts
State with the highest true cost: Louisiana
Metro area with the lowest true cost: Seattle
Metro area with the highest true cost: Detroit

This is not some deliberate government conspiracy to deprive you of a BMW. It is simply the result of inflation, price gouging, driving habits, and weather.

This ^

The increased cost of sophisticated parts such as cameras, sensors, etc. and labor are the salient reasons for higher premiums.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Carefree

This ^

The increased cost of sophisticated parts such as cameras, sensors, etc. and labor are the salient reasons for higher premiums.

Good point. And aluminum unibody panels like the rears of some Audis. Teslas and Corvettes have higher labor rates too.

[Carefree]

Folks, let’s put all the conspiracy theories aside. They’re certainly fun to read but virtually none of them are true.

In a commensurate fashion both homeowners and auto insurances are increasing similarly. Why? What’s the commonality?

It’s actually quite simple, inflation. Rebuild/repair costs. New cars have sensors in the bumper, sensors in the windshield, sensors everywhere, cameras all around, radar for cruise control, computer chips, and on and on ad nauseum. The repair shops require all the diagnostic tools (not inexpensive), and then labor costs which generally exceed $150/hour. I’m guessing on that so cut me some slack.

Now your home. The cost of rebuilding is crazy. Personally speaking, one of my homes happens to be all brick. The premium increased 40% year over year. I can’t imagine the cost of materials and labor to rebuild that place brick by brick. Our friends and neighbors in hurricane/flood plain/high risk areas are seeing correspondingly high percentage increases. Lumber, drywall, roofing, plumbing, etc. plus labor are all contributory factors.

It’s not about illegal aliens or stupid drivers (but they’re out there) or the government or your speeding ticket or rich people.

It’s about inflation. Been to a grocery store lately?

End of rant.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Carefree

Folks, let’s put all the conspiracy theories aside. They’re certainly fun to read but virtually none of them are true.

In a commensurate fashion both homeowners and auto insurances are increasing similarly. Why? What’s the commonality?

It’s actually quite simple, inflation. Rebuild/repair costs. New cars have sensors in the bumper, sensors in the windshield, sensors everywhere, cameras all around, radar for cruise control, computer chips, and on and on ad nauseum. The repair shops require all the diagnostic tools (not inexpensive), and then labor costs which generally exceed $150/hour. I’m guessing on that so cut me some slack.

Now your home. The cost of rebuilding is crazy. Personally speaking, one of my homes happens to be all brick. The premium increased 40% year over year. I can’t imagine the cost of materials and labor to rebuild that place brick by brick. Our friends and neighbors in hurricane/flood plain/high risk areas are seeing correspondingly high percentage increases. Lumber, drywall, roofing, plumbing, etc. plus labor are all contributory factors.

It’s not about illegal aliens or stupid drivers (but they’re out there) or the government or your speeding ticket or rich people.

It’s about inflation. Been to a grocery store lately?

End of rant.

I agree.

But 3rd parties, including insurance companies, can still have access to trip/data telemetry.

If someone wants to enable vehicle trip/data telemetry -- aka CarData -- go ahead. Just read the fine print and know what data is being collected and where it goes. And what you can do to limit its distribution/sharing if you so desire.

[ScottyRyan2019]

Apparently some of you need one of these

[Mr. Hankey]

Originally Posted by ScottyRyan2019

Apparently some of you need one of these

Actually I need 2 of those. One for each boob.