[WhiteOne]

I believe most accidents are caused by failure to yield R/W and following to close. If drivers payed more attention these would not happen. I do believe distractions lessen our attention. Having said that: If you can not talk on the phone and drive at the same time how can you even begin to function with other people in the car? Children are at least 10 times more distracting than talking on the phone. Lets make it illegal to have children in our cars. We will be much safer.:thumbup:

[mrgoochio]

I'm confused, post editted?

[Yearofthe1]

Just one more thing to add to this discussion:

I live in the DC metro area, and the beltway is jokingly referred to as the Capital Area Speedway by many locals here. If you actually plan on driving the speed limit on 495 (during non-rush hours of course), you must have a death wish.

Although the posted limit is 55 mph, you'd be driving slow going 65 mph. The vast majority of drivers on 495 are driving between 70 and 75 mph, and many are going 80 and over.

Yet another great example of adjusting your speed to meet the conditions, for if you insist on driving 55 mph here, you're the dangerous one!

[bski]

It has been shown that driving while on a cell phone/text messaging is as dangerous as DWI.
Therefore where I live (NY area) 70% of the drivers out there can be considered DWI.
I have seen people on cell phones drive right thru red lights without even knowing it.
The roads here are like the "wild west" of the past. You cant be defensive enough, there are so many turkeys out there.
With that said, speed kills, but given the inexperianced/foolish/careless driver, they would have trouble walking and chewing gum let alone driving at 100 mph.
gimme room!
bski

[topvega]

Originally Posted by mrgoochio

I'm confused, post editted?

Yes.. I am sure he wishes he never posted it in the first place seeing how it has opened up a can of worms... but I defended him initially and still do... he did nothing wrong in my book... he was attacked by someone who obviously believes driving over the speed limit at anytime is reckless and you never know when that deserted road you are on cld have a child on a bike or some other unforeseen situation... you can do the what if thing all day long... I agree with the people who also feel that a driver with some common sense and a fair amount of driving skill can drive above the posted speed limit without it being "reckless"... I still do not believe the OP actually was drifting but used the term meaning he came out of a turn hard... if i drifted with my wife in the car I wld never hear the end of it.. and if a cop saw me doing this I doubt very much I wld not have been pulled over.
To the OP I am sorry I poured fuel on what became a pretty robust fire... I just felt like you were being wrongly singled out as a reckless driver and I don't believe you were...

[topvega]

Originally Posted by Yearofthe1

Just one more thing to add to this discussion:

I live in the DC metro area, and the beltway is jokingly referred to as the Capital Area Speedway by many locals here. If you actually plan on driving the speed limit on 495 (during non-rush hours of course), you must have a death wish.

Although the posted limit is 55 mph, you'd be driving slow going 65 mph. The vast majority of drivers on 495 are driving between 70 and 75 mph, and many are going 80 and over.

Yet another great example of adjusting your speed to meet the conditions, for if you insist on driving 55 mph here, you're the dangerous one!

I agree 100%... I cld not imagine getting on the Garden State Parkway and doing the speed limit... they just lowered the limit to 55 on a 20 mile stretch from mile marker 80 to 100...all that means is you can do 75 without getting pulled over instead of 85... I put the cruise control on 65 in this area and 90% of the people on the road fly by me....

[IDBMW]

No one has mentioned what BMW calls Active Collision Control. I remember reading about it in a brochure for a 3 series I had in 2000. They say due to the great handling of the cars they can avoid an accident much better than most other cars. Consider one of those big Buick’s old folks drive doing the cones at 70 mph then do it in a 135i. The amount of deer I have dogged in BMWs over the years is amazing. I never a hit one in the BMW. I had a deer run out in front of my truck and knew there was no way to safely swerve so I had to take the deer out.

Another factor is the drivers driving ability. I can’t imagine my 86 yo Mom driving my BMW over the speed limit (can’t imagine her driving my BMW at all). There is no way she has the reaction time of a younger experienced driver.

Bottom line is you have to drive according to conditions and your driving abilities.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Spook

Yes.. I think all drivers should be self-judging. As a matter of fact, when we get our license we should declare which category we're in. I think I deserve the 'no traffic laws for me' category because I'm such a swell driver and smart guy. Oh.. and the car counts too. Should be based on skid pad and braking you think? Yes, that should work. (sic)

I thought we are having an adult conversation. If you want a mocking game, I won't give you one.

I do understand what you're saying and in a perfect world would agree. I think there is some room for judgement in driving.
I don't think we need (or even should to be safe) to stay within the speed limit all the time.

Thank you.

'Drifting around the corner' and 'not recklessly' when applied to public roads are, in the world we live in and share, a non-sensical pairing.

I disagree - it all depends, on very many factors. The location of the road and time of the day has a huge impact. On my daily commute there are places where occasionally there are absolutely no cars around, or even in distant view. No driveways, no kids, no bicycles. Who am I endangering if I decide to hang my tail out around that 90 degree intersection? It wouldn't even exceed the speed limit, it would be all 1st gear action - and it would still be called "drifting" I believe.

All 135 drivers should realize that they are breaking the law in the majority of locales by redlining in 2nd gear (approx 67mph). Redlining 3rd (approx. 95 mph) would deprive you of your car, driving rights and even liberty in most any US state.


So if anybody here claims they never speed on the road, and have never taken a twisty piece of tarmac over the posted 35mph limit, and have only sped on track - I flat don't believe it.

[ARES45]

With regards to the cell phone... I know everyone here has seen someone talking on the cell phone do something dangerous on the road. However, I have seen people not doing anything but driving do dangerous things on the road as well. I am not against the use of cell phones on the roadway, expecially with a hands free device and here is why. While flying a helicopter at 140 knots <50 AGL I am required to monitor and communicate on multiple radios while identifying, reporting, and eliminating threats. Now to think that the taxpayers who trust me with their hard earned money and possibly the lives of their childeren below me trust me to do that, but will not trust me to talk to my wife as I am driving home at the painfully slow posted speed limit rubs me the wrong way.

I know that the rules are made for the masses, but it is not the cell phone, it is the driver. Just like it is not the gun, it is the shooter. As a country, we need to change how we do things not the laws that limit us and impose on our freedom.

[Spook]

Is the difference between exceeding the speed limit and using a public road as a track not clear?

[whya1?]

I know arguing for following the speed limits and safe driving on a 1 series (or any fast car) forum is like arguing for smoking bans at a cigarette convention. Even if you argee with me in spirit that speeding and "enthusiatic" driving and drifting are bad you can't give it up or agree with me because it is so fun and addictive.

Regardless of how great a driver you think you are (and I am sure most think themselves excellent) you can't control every situation and by exceeding the speed limit, drifting a corner or aggressively weaving on the highway (as the first 135 i saw was doing on 95) you are making it more dangerous for yourself and for others on the road.

Nothing is stopping you from doing anything you want on a track but when you are on a public road you are using public resources and expecting the public to take care of you if you crash. Even if you simply spin your 135 into a ditch while drifting and hurt only yourself you are still using up ambulances, police/fire and hospital resources that could be used to help someone who DIDN'T hurt themselves being a fool. How would you feel if you or your child were hit by a drunk driver and the doctor was busy with some BMW driving street racer who hit a tree?

You might think speed limits are stupid and excessive and laws against cell phones are useless but they are all there to safeguard the public good. Even if you have a better car and are a better driver than the 80 year old man driving his 1986 Lebaron it doesn't mean you can drive any faster or more aggressive then him on roads that you are paying for equally.

If any of you lead foots would like to have your private ambulance follow you around on your private road then go to it. But if you are on the road then you have to obey the law. Or at least not bitch and moan when they give you a huge ticket, revoke your license and make you take the bus.

Leave the fun driving for the track/autox. It really isn't that hard.

[whya1?]

Speeding is just as bad as hanging out the rear and drifting. Even if you drive the best stopping vehicle in the world your reaction time still takes time and in that .2 seconds you travel much further going 75 than 55.

55mph = 16 ft in .2 seconds.
75mph = 22 ft in .2 seconds.

And that only takes into reaction time. Another 6ft is easily the difference between a miss and an accident. Add another 10 ft or so for the actual breaking distance and you are looking at a near miss vs. a serious accident. Add in a cell phone that will slow your reaction time further and the time increases dramatically.

As for the poster who flies helicopters i first off would like to say thank you for your service. But flying a helicopter in a combat situation is completely different than driving on a highway and talking to your wife. You screw up in the air, you die. You screw up on the road and you could kill me. Hang up the phone.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by whya1?

As for the poster who flies helicopters i first off would like to say thank you for your service. But flying a helicopter in a combat situation is completely different than driving on a highway and talking to your wife. You screw up in the air, you die. You screw up on the road and you could kill me. Hang up the phone.

I fly at 500 KIAS at 500'. Flying my jet, I talk on 2 different radios (between ATC and my wingman), navigate, monitor my aircraft's performance, make sure I'm not running out of gas, double checking I'll hit the target +/- 10 sec, etc etc. Of course, it took nearly 3 years of training to get to that point.

What's my point, some of us have the ability to multitask. Not to start a fight here, even when I'm talking on my cellphone while driving (hands free device of course), I'm still a better driver than 80% of the road warriors out there.

[adc]

Originally Posted by whya1?

I know arguing for following the speed limits and safe driving on a 1 series (or any fast car) forum is like arguing for smoking bans at a cigarette convention.

Please tell us just one thing: have you ever in your life exceeded the posted speed limit on a public road? Very curious...

Even if you simply spin your 135 into a ditch while drifting and hurt only yourself you are still using up ambulances, police/fire and hospital resources that could be used to help someone who DIDN'T hurt themselves being a fool. How would you feel if you or your child were hit by a drunk driver and the doctor was busy with some BMW driving street racer who hit a tree?

I'm paying for these services to be available to me just like everybody else. Just like the guy who drops his cigarette on the blanket and sets the apartment building on fire, or the teenager who ends up in the hospital due to alcohol poisoning, or the guy who causes an accident by swerving at 80mph on the Capital Beltway, or any of the other medical emergencies caused by bad judgement.

If I think these services are stretched so thin in the area where I live so as to not be able to handle several emergencies at once, I'll move to a different area where public resources are managed better.

on roads that you are paying for equally.

Are you sure sure everybody pays for the roads equally? Isn't it related to the amount of taxes you pay?

Leave the fun driving for the track/autox. It really isn't that hard.

If you crash at the track/autocross, you will still ride to the same hospital in the same ambulance. Actually it's worse, they might tie up one or more ambulances for the duration of the event, meaning less ambulances will be available during that time to save my son.

BTW, isn't the same ambulance going to take you to the same hospital if you have an accident while on the bus? In fact, chances are that if that happens, you will not get the best of care, as emergency services will be stretched very thin in that single moment of tragedy.

Originally Posted by whya1?

your reaction time still takes time and in that .2 seconds you travel much further going 75 than 55.

55mph = 16 ft in .2 seconds.
75mph = 22 ft in .2 seconds.

And that only takes into reaction time. Another 6ft is easily the difference between a miss and an accident. Add another 10 ft or so for the actual breaking distance and you are looking at a near miss vs. a serious accident.

So why drive 55? If you drive 35, you will only cover 10ft during those .2 seconds. If you drive 15, you will cover 6ft.

As you go slower, the distance traversed in this amount of time gets smaller, giving you more and more margin of safety, until at the very end (speed zero) you are completely safe.

There are other benefits - as your speed decreases, the kinetic energy released in a potential impact gets reduced with the square of the speed, thus increasing your chances tremendously.


I mean really, they're nuts thinking 55mph (or 65 or 75 in some places) is safe.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Jockey

What's my point, some of us have the ability to multitask. Not to start a fight here, even when I'm talking on my cellphone while driving (hands free device of course), I'm still a better driver than 80% of the road warriors out there.

+1.

While the laws are created for the masses, via statistical analysis and the laws of averages, they don't answer the question of exceptional individuals.

I don't pretend to have the same multi-tasking ability or reflexes as a (fighter) pilot - that's why he's up there and I'm down here. But if nothing else, pilots are a very vivid example that all individuals most emphatically are not the same.

[Bullitt]

adc, well said.

[larryn]

I'll throw in that even if you were a bit distracted (multi tasking), in the extra fraction of a second it takes to become fully aware and successfully react, you would be far, far better off than instantaneously seeing and reacting in a large SUV or a 72 Buick LeSabre.

(and before anybody says it.. nobody can really instantaneously react.. you know what I mean) :smile:

[adc]

The thing is, the 55mph Interstate limit is most definitely an arbitrary number these days. There are numerous roads in this country where the quality of the road surface, the visibility, the weather patterns and technological advancements of the cars in the past decade have conspired to make people feel safe driving well over the speed limit.

It is obvious that the majority of people will travel at the speed they are comfortable with, no matter what the actual limit is set to. On many roads in the area where I live, that seems to be around 65-75 mph when traffic is moving. When I was driving in Europe on derestricted sections of the Autobahn, the average speed seemed to be around 75-85mph, with very few vehicles traveling at higher speeds - despite the fact that is was legal, the road was excellent and visibility good for miles. :iono:

And being the arrogant prick of a BMW driver that I am, I feel very confident that trundling along the Interstate with my fellow drivers all going a happy 70 mph, I am much better prepared to handle an emergency situation than the vast majority of them. After all, I put time, money and effort to ensure this is the case and I'd be very disappointed if I weren't any better than the rest at all...

[ktdw]

When I read some of these posts, my inner voice keeps saying "Goddamn Hippies!" [In the voice of Eric Cartman]

Never thought the "hippie" would show up on a forum about cars made for "yuppies", huh? :smile:

[Spook]

This is not about 55mph (regardless of what Sammy Hagar says).

This isn't about keeping at the posted speed.

This is about what is safe and reasonable and who decides.

Driving 73 in a 65 is not in the same class as drifting corners.

There is a broader argument that goes with how we establish traffic laws in this country and what we owe, as a citizen, in terms of compliance. However, that is not only overly philisophical but can get pretty regional (the answer is likely different for Wyoming highways and Texas coastal towns with speed traps).

[adc]

Originally Posted by Spook

Driving 73 in a 65 is not in the same class as drifting corners.

Why not?

When I drift my "favorite" corners, it happens at no more than 25-30mph in 1st gear. If I crash, nobody will die, not even a squirrel.

If I crash at 73mph, it will have much more severe consequences for me and/or anybody else.

[1er junkie]

Oh yeah??? I was going like, 237 mph the other day on the interstate while eating a pan pizza and talking on my cell phone. I only hit like 5 cars and drifted twice. Did I mention I went through a school zone in the middle of that doing 155? People, everyone has opinions, but sometimes it's better to keep to ourselves and just know that not everyone wants to hear them. That is called being an adult