[My M3]

People allegedly complain about the front of the G80x series & yet they are selling more than they can build. What other M car has the presence of a G80x series.

I do agree the future is questionable however the G80x has been around for a while now, can't we move on?

[440i6MT]

Originally Posted by eman4517

Yes, change is inevitable. Many will complain and then go out and buy it the 2nd year it's out.

I did not embrace the G8x grille, yet I eventually bought 2. Go figure. People get uncomfortable when their cheese moves, many adapt, others starve I guess. 😧🧀

What a stupid post.

Irrespective, BMW is selling better than ever, as are its M-cars.
There are obvious macroeconomic factors & business decisions that have led it to the success it currently experiences (onshoring manufacturing to the Western hemisphere, low interest rate era for the preceding decade, amongst others).

Design, ultimately, doesn't matter. It doesn't. If it's remotely passable, which every single BMW today is, it will sell.

Because BMW provides a [relatively] good product and a perception of sport luxury wealth, it succeeds on the market.

That's it.

[atopa2002]

Hornydonk or whatever his name is need to go

[R N M]

Very happy that Dukec is gone from BMW - by far the worst designer in BMW history!

I hope the new design team study the beautiful timeless designs from the 80s through 2000s.

Stop with gimmick styling like the giant grills on M3 and cluttered bodywork.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by My M3

People allegedly complain about the front of the G80x series & yet they are selling more than they can build. What other M car has the presence of a G80x series.

I do agree the future is questionable however the G80x has been around for a while now, can't we move on?

Just because a car sells well doesn’t mean it looks good.

M3/4 has almost no competition from MB, Audi Lexus etc.
Previous generations had much stronger competition when MB had C63 with V8, Audi had RS5 with V8 etc.

M3/4 is the only game in town especially if you want a Manual transmission.

I personally have not purchased new one largely due to the grill but I’m lucky to have F80. If i didn’t then I would definitely buy G80 even though i hate the grill.

[eman4517]

Originally Posted by 440i6MT

What a stupid post.

Irrespective, BMW is selling better than ever, as are its M-cars.
There are obvious macroeconomic factors & business decisions that have led it to the success it currently experiences (onshoring manufacturing to the Western hemisphere, low interest rate era for the preceding decade, amongst others).

Design, ultimately, doesn't matter. It doesn't. If it's remotely passable, which every single BMW today is, it will sell.

Because BMW provides a [relatively] good product and a perception of sport luxury wealth, it succeeds on the market.

That's it.

In response to your word salad, yes of course they do, I've owned about 8 new BMWs and liked them all.

It was a screen grab from a NY Times Best Selling book from 1998, dude about times of "structural reorganization", during cost-cutting measures, in an attempt to portray unfavorable or unfair changes in an optimistic or opportunistic way and was handed out by many companies as a coping mechanism for change. It was making light of the situation.

Maybe you were too young and not reading or walking yet.

[bavarianboar]

Originally Posted by R N M

Very happy that Dukec is gone from BMW - by far the worst designer in BMW history!

I hope the new design team study the beautiful timeless designs from the 80s through 2000s.

Stop with gimmick styling like the giant grills on M3 and cluttered bodywork.

Some are saying that moving to RR is a promotion for Dukec, which is a testament to his design success (measure by sales numbers?). Not sure how it works inside the corporation. RR is high margin low volume but it’s not clear whether they consider this move a kudos or FU (we can’t just fire you yet).

[DonutRanger]

Friendly reminder that forum warriors here are the vast minority of the BMW customer base

[orkinos]

Oh boy!

[White340]

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

Such weird, emotional reaction to a fairly routine corporate restructuring. Guy responsible for the grill - seems like a promotion to RR and the beginning of succession planning for Hooydonk. G8x still on track to outsell previous generations despite a vocal minority who largely cling to old models cause BMW destroyed itself, lost its way, etc. It shows a little controversy keeps designs from getting boring and BMW is willing to take risks while pushing M performance to consistently higher levels.

They could have sold more if they didn’t have that design. It performs well and still has a 6 cylinder without all the electric complexity. Every owner I’ve spoke to has “got used to the design”. No one has ever said they bought it because of the design. They’ve just accepted it.

I am one of those who could easily afford one but chose not to get one. My next car will likely be an X5M or a range because they still look good.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by GuyOh

I’m so happy Domagoj Dukec is leaving BMW. RIP rolls royce…

I just hope the new team respects the holfmeister kink, go back to the “angel eyes”, and no more vertical beaver buck tooth grills.

Also hope the new x3 is the only odd model with a “cheap” interior and hopefully lci can fix the interior a bit.

I’m hoping the design team can be more like Porsche. Design cars that look more traditional yet modern and sporty.

#MakeBMWgreatagain

No thanks! Going backwards will do nothing for the brand.


….and there are just as many complainers in the Porsche camp as well. After all, those of us at Porsche are just people who migrated from BMW (…and many still own BMW cars). Porsche can do nothing right in their eyes. Thankfully forum people aren’t representative of the larger car buying market in either camp. Left up to the perspective of the complainers, companies would never change or innovate.

[bholler]

Couldn’t be worse….

[B58 parts]

I thought I was the only person on this forum that didn't like the giant grills. When they first came out everyone was in here gushing about how they were different and "forward progress" etc.

All electric, no manual gearbox, computers everywhere, and bad design that nobody actually likes. Of course. At least they still make parts for the 96.

[bavarianboar]

Originally Posted by DonutRanger

Friendly reminder that forum warriors here are the vast minority of the BMW customer base

Oh well said, newbie. Welcome to the forum and we look forward to you opening our eyes.

Checkout Domagoj Dukec Instagram account, read the comments and tell us all those people commenting on social media are ALL also forum fanboys.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by bavarianboar

Oh well said, newbie. Welcome to the forum and we look forward to you opening our eyes.

Checkout Domagoj Dukec Instagram account, read the comments and tell us all those people commenting on social media are ALL also forum fanboys.

Whether you choose to acknowledge what he said or not, he’s not wrong. The average buyer isn’t on forums nor social media (…following car manufacturer accounts).

[rwdbmwonly]

I'm old enough to remember the huge criticism Chris Bangle got over twenty years ago. When first gen E65 and E60 were presented, such controversial cars. (In fact Hooydonk was responsible for the actual design of many controversial elements like the so called Bangle Butt.) Now people want to bring Bangle back and if we see an E60 we think: what was it all about again?

BMW has always gone through cycles of evolutionairy design and revolutionairy design. But revolution without clear vision is a problem and that is IMHO what we have seen these past years. The G82 is one of the examples, that design seems to combine elements not ment to be combined. (if you like it, it's just my opinion and nothing personal.) The Skytop concept car is another great example. If you told me it was done by GM as an hommage to their seventies line-up I would totally believe it.

One last comment: record sales numbers are used to support the argument that BMW is doing well. If they dilute the products and the image to sell more vehicles we're losing the core of the brand we love, aren't we? And all that to attract people who don't appreciate what BMW is really about? If BMW dilutes further there will be no reason left to buy BMW over buying a Tesla or one of the newcomers from China. How BMW uses the M-badge as an accessory on base models proves how far the diluting is taken but the're more examples to give.

[bavarianboar]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Whether you choose to acknowledge what he said or not, he’s not wrong. The average buyer isn’t on forums nor social media (…following car manufacturer accounts).

I don’t disagree with you.

It’s also not black and white (unfortunately). I can acknowledge and yet disagree with the poster’s comment above. The spirit of the discussion is lost with such comments.

The sales numbers are the only metric people seem to use and stop right there. But question remains - do even the real informed buyers/enthusiasts have other choices? Taking for example the M3 like other posters pointed out in the thread here, not thrilled but people still buy/lease it for lack of “comparable” options.

Also taking M3 sales numbers, I m not quite following what does an average “non-enthusiast” M3 buyer look like who doesn’t order their car or hunts for a deal instead to make a compromise, I have not met one. Granted average BMW buyer has marginal representation on these forums here but is way more in tune than the older generations.

It’s not hard to see Dukec’s Instagram account show up if you have any interest in BMW as a casual potential buyer, thanks to recommender systems algorithms. We all know masses can comment without following any accounts.

Buyers are more informed and care, leasehackr forum’s exponential use should be another clear example in front of us. Atleast they care what their $ buys them.

Reliability has gone up significantly which is another point in BMW’s favor that few people talk about. Is that driving the sales numbers up?

I’ll stop here.

Its most convenient to disregard critical assessments by forum members in a thread that’s build exactly for that - saying they only represent a small fraction of the customer base.

We all want to drive cars that we don’t dislike, we also don’t get paid/rewarded in dividends for high sales numbers of strange looking designs & the cost cut era. BMW is in identity crisis and some customers care as much as (or more than) they care about their next iPhone.

Peace.

[BLKM]

Originally Posted by White340

They could have sold more if they didn’t have that design. It performs well and still has a 6 cylinder without all the electric complexity. Every owner I’ve spoke to has “got used to the design”. No one has ever said they bought it because of the design. They’ve just accepted it.

I am one of those who could easily afford one but chose not to get one. My next car will likely be an X5M or a range because they still look good.

Hmmm, I sold a Jag F Type for the M2 because of the design…. and manual … absolutely love this G87 design!

Each to their own

[Mavus]

for folks that appreciate great designs and a bit of bmw history here is a great video

bmw needs design reset asap and some of their ethos and design philosophy restored

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Mavus

for folks that appreciate great designs and a bit of bmw history


bmw needs design reset asap and some of their ethos and design philosophy restored

That reminded me of this one. I mean, how could sockless DD remain after this debacle. The comments are GOLD. Especially insightful was the second hand comment from someone working within the BMW design team about the people making design decisions aren’t designers but marketing story-tellers with non-automotive backgrounds. Stick around for the theories at the end.

[VER]

People don't understand that you can't draw conclusions with limited data.

The cars have been butt ugly. They've been selling a lot. But there is no way to know if it's the looks helping that or other factors (how it drives, lack of competition, target market doing well economically, etc). There would need to be a second version selling at the same time with the only change being the looks (without the awful grille), and then you would see which one sold better.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by rwdbmwonly

I'm old enough to remember the huge criticism Chris Bangle got over twenty years ago. When first gen E65 and E60 were presented, such controversial cars. (In fact Hooydonk was responsible for the actual design of many controversial elements like the so called Bangle Butt.) Now people want to bring Bangle back and if we see an E60 we think: what was it all about again?

BMW has always gone through cycles of evolutionairy design and revolutionairy design. But revolution without clear vision is a problem and that is IMHO what we have seen these past years. The G82 is one of the examples, that design seems to combine elements not ment to be combined. (if you like it, it's just my opinion and nothing personal.) The Skytop concept car is another great example. If you told me it was done by GM as an hommage to their seventies line-up I would totally believe it.

One last comment: record sales numbers are used to support the argument that BMW is doing well. If they dilute the products and the image to sell more vehicles we're losing the core of the brand we love, aren't we? And all that to attract people who don't appreciate what BMW is really about? If BMW dilutes further there will be no reason left to buy BMW over buying a Tesla or one of the newcomers from China. How BMW uses the M-badge as an accessory on base models proves how far the diluting is taken but the're more examples to give.

The first argument in bold could hold water, but it is presumptuous to affirm that their vision should be or should’ve been your vision. BMW clearly had a vision and the current cars are representative of that. The current model line-up were penned and vetted a very, very long time ago.

The second argument in bold is definitely a point of contention that goes way back to the dawn of the F-Series cars, but arguably started with the E46 ZHP. Slapping ///M badges on everything under the sun in the same way Mercedes did with AMG or Audi did with S-Line truly made the forum segment of buyers feel like BMW was diluting the brand in the name of sales. Clearly BMW still builds great cars and they must remain profitable and relevant, but at what cost?!? The average buyer sees luxury marques as simply that: status. They don’t care about the history of the 911 or the ///M. Hoffmeister Kinks (..a GM design cue), ignitions on the left or slightly obscured gauges, etc. aren’t things the average buyer cares about when they buy these cars. They just want the latest and greatest Roundel or Crest. In some ways, many of the same arguments are occurring regarding Porsche along with other concerns (….e.g. too many 911 models, moving the 911 upmarket and playing Ferrari games with buyers, an identity crisis, hybridization/electrification is killing the cars, making manuals less available except on expensive models, etc.).