[tracer bullet]

I wonder if they'd work with you on the engine. You are right regarding the warranty though, and the questions brought up.

Used motors look to be in the 6-8k range on ebay anyhow. Would be interesting to know if that's what they do or if they have a source they've used before. Maybe it could be the cost of the motor plus 10% or something? And that line of the estimate be flexible?

You should also look up the value of the car if it was in awesome condition, think of the changed value with a replaced motor, and what you could sell it for as-is. It might not be worth it.

Also, noticing Tejas's example above, if there's a core return required it's highly likely you will NOT be getting all of this deposit back. That'd be mostly for good engines, or those that at least the block and heads can be reused, maybe the crank. You will have one or more of those parts not be salvageable.

[pbonsalb]

$16k Canadian not counting the tax is about $12k USD. That seems reasonable. Did not originally know the OP was in Canada. That $12k Canadian motor with 67km equals $8k USD and 42k miles. I’d go ahead and do it.

As someone else pointed out, you won’t get an engine from a rebuilder without a good core and your core is probably no good so you would likely have to add the core charge to the engine cost and at that point you will have spent a lot more.

[hayhay7789]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

https://www.rkautowerks.com/index.php/product/rk-autowerks-stock-rebuild-s58-configuration-m2-m3-m4/

https://www.projectmmotors.com/product-page/bmw-b58-s58-engine

Thank you for the recommendations.
It would seem that my engine quote is actually near the cheaper end of options, then. Sadly for my Canadian wallet, $10,000USD for the RK Autowerks motor is $~14300 CAD before import fees of 12%. The Project M is $12150 after conversion, which means the tax would put me just over the edge. $12,500 CAD isn’t sounding so bad, now…the only cheaper options I’ve been able to find are eBay options with 100,000+km on the motor. I would guess it’s not worth saving a couple thousand for the added stress, uncertainty and wear on the donor engine.

Unless anyone has a panacea, or are giving away briefcases full of money, it sounds like my answer lies where I expected - solely in emptying enough of my wallet to make the old engine go away. Ah, BMWs 🥲

Thank you to everyone who replied. You all have given me a LOT of help and helped me get more insights and make a more informed decision. If anyone has anything else they’d like to add feel free to reply, I’ll still be checking and posting updates as they come up. The root cause of this issue is still a bit of a mystery, so if I manage to find or learn anything which lends credence to anyone’s theories, I’ll be sure to share. Cheers all.

[IanH]

Sell the car to a mechanic. Walk away. Do not pay to replace the engine.

This isn't a demand, but I cant see a good reason to fix it if you are paying someone else to do it.

[hayhay7789]

Originally Posted by IanH

Sell the car to a mechanic. Walk away. Do not pay to replace the engine.

This isn't a demand, but I cant see a good reason to fix it if you are paying someone else to do it.

i have a few reasons which are somewhat personal. i have one reason which stands out above all though:

i am a dumbass; this is still the bank’s car.

sadly it’s not as easy as 1-2-3 due to my own poor planning. i had 0 intention of keeping the car financed for long, as i had a high paying job which would have paid enough to pay it off in a year. but my family and personal life had a lot of strife in the last couple years which took my time away from work and my money from my bank account, and i then lost my job last year which has kept me from building back up the financial base i had when i purchased this. my current circumstances (ie not owning the car yet) are due to me being an overly optimistic idiot and not having enough contingency planning. if i had the money to get rid of it, i would.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by hayhay7789

i have a few reasons which are somewhat personal. i have one reason which stands out above all though:

i am a dumbass; this is still the bank’s car.

sadly it’s not as easy as 1-2-3 due to my own poor planning. i had 0 intention of keeping the car financed for long, as i had a high paying job which would have paid enough to pay it off in a year. but my family and personal life had a lot of strife in the last couple years which took my time away from work and my money from my bank account, and i then lost my job last year which has kept me from building back up the financial base i had when i purchased this. my current circumstances (ie not owning the car yet) are due to me being an overly optimistic idiot and not having enough contingency planning. if i had the money to get rid of it, i would.

What's your payoff? Are you more underwater than your engine will cost? You may be best off just trading it in and rolling the negative equity over.

[IanH]

There's a lot of potential scenarios where the best possible financial decision is to ditch the car, even if you are under water.

In hopes of being helpful, what's the payoff of the car? Can really tell you exactly where the breakeven point is and... I would say your potential cost in trying to fix this is more than the estimates you have received.

[B58 parts]

I went through what happened to you last year. I'm in my 40s and fortunate enough to stop paying attention to costs, so I thought it would be fun and ordered the engine crane. Financially, this is not the move. I do still have all the receipts for everything and I'm planning to sit down soon and add it up. It's just delays retirement a bit. Life is short you have to have fun sometimes.

The car was off the road for 15 months, which is ridiculous, but one stupid thing happened. I also bought 3 other neglected BMWs in between, two of which I ended up working on a lot last year. And there are a few weeks where nothing happened, you know, family, vacation, work, work, illness, and of course pure laziness, tiredness, demotivation, procrastination etc. I might get a few hours a few nights a week and a few hours on one day on the weekend and that's it.

I think I did pretty good. Yes, I made one grave mistake, and completely destroyed the donor engine, but was able to work that out. Still zero send backs from the first test drive, 2,000 miles in and rips just like the one that was in there. The twin disc is going to break the gearbox for sure.

If you ever do a rear main seal on the engine, try to pick it out, and if you have to use the drill, center punch it really good first and be super careful. I didn't really know anything could happen, and the drill walked to the right and I destroyed a $7,000 donor engine. I swear it was seeping. 35,000 mi on it and the rear main was seeping. It was a Las Vegas car, there was sand everywhere. There was oil on the paper towel for 3 days straight, so I decided to change it.

After a few weeks of sulking, I took the timing cover off and tried the repair sleeve 99353, and that didn't work either, oil everywhere. So I had no choice but to use the crank from the other engine and get that right. Which then meant I had to buy all the tools I didn't want to buy in the first place. The plastigauge didn't work that well, so I had to mic them and learn how to do that, which was really good experience. I got a really nice email reply from someone and was able to get everything in perfect spec.

I ended up with a complete swap with all sorts of extras that I am still supposed to sell off. But all you really need is the short block, your head might even be good. That oil filter is pretty grim though.

The week before I bought that full swap, there was a perfect bare long block on there for $3,600. It was out of a 2 series and had 70000 miles. It was a perfect deal, I had it in the shopping cart and somebody sniped it from me at the same time. It had been there for 3 or 4 days, I couldn't believe it. I waited a while and nothing like it ever showed up.

I just picked up another crankshaft to replace the one I destroyed, and rebuild the stock engine now, for the e36 or a spare. You could troll eBay for parts and put one together buying only what you actually need. It could be done.

[hayhay7789]

Originally Posted by IanH

There's a lot of potential scenarios where the best possible financial decision is to ditch the car, even if you are under water.

In hopes of being helpful, what's the payoff of the car? Can really tell you exactly where the breakeven point is and... I would say your potential cost in trying to fix this is more than the estimates you have received.

I really appreciate you trying to help me, thank you.

Sadly I still have about 28k left on the car. My financial advisor told me it was worth getting the longest loan period possible if I planned to pay it off early as it would look the best on my credit report (paying it off in 1/6 of the time vs 1/4), and since the money I had set aside to pay it off early ended up being needed elsewhere I have only been making the monthly payments on the car. I absolutely hate that I got locked into this car like a fresh Marine recruit who got talked into the service with the promise of a new Camaro, but it is what it is.

In short I owe about $10k more on the car than the engine repair will cost.

[IanH]

Ok, but the value of the car is.... not zero, with no engine.

So I don't know what you can sell it for, but it's probably around 10k.

So now, the cost of paying the loan off is roughly equal to replacing the engine. You are going to take a hit here (or rather you already have) but I don't think it is advisable to take the unknown road if you are betting it will cost less.

[hayhay7789]

Originally Posted by B58 parts

I went through what happened to you last year. I'm in my 40s and fortunate enough to stop paying attention to costs, so I thought it would be fun and ordered the engine crane. Financially, this is not the move. I do still have all the receipts for everything and I'm planning to sit down soon and add it up. It's just delays retirement a bit. Life is short you have to have fun sometimes.

The car was off the road for 15 months, which is ridiculous, but one stupid thing happened. I also bought 3 other neglected BMWs in between, two of which I ended up working on a lot last year. And there are a few weeks where nothing happened, you know, family, vacation, work, work, illness, and of course pure laziness, tiredness, demotivation, procrastination etc. I might get a few hours a few nights a week and a few hours on one day on the weekend and that's it.

I think I did pretty good. Yes, I made one grave mistake, and completely destroyed the donor engine, but was able to work that out. Still zero send backs from the first test drive, 2,000 miles in and rips just like the one that was in there. The twin disc is going to break the gearbox for sure.

If you ever do a rear main seal on the engine, try to pick it out, and if you have to use the drill, center punch it really good first and be super careful. I didn't really know anything could happen, and the drill walked to the right and I destroyed a $7,000 donor engine. I swear it was seeping. 35,000 mi on it and the rear main was seeping. It was a Las Vegas car, there was sand everywhere. There was oil on the paper towel for 3 [...]

Thank you so much for your post. That is quite the tale! I’m sorry you went through so much strife, but the fact that you got your car running again despite all else is very encouraging.

Sounds like we have a similar thought process when it comes to this. I agree with you that life is too short and it’s worth having fun sometimes. Even if it’s irrational, I’d like to do everything I can to hold onto this car and get it running again. My entire logic behind buying it in the first place was to get one “nice thing” and baby it until the wheels fell off. If this happened a few years down the road, Id probably write it off. But since I’m only just getting my life started (24 years old) and still have so much I’d like to do with my car, while I’m still young, I’m gritting my teeth and finding my way through this. Once I can start the engine again and go for a nice road trip with my family, it’ll all be worth it. At the end of the day, I only care about money so long as I have enough to keep myself comfortable and alive. I’m a little short on scratch lately, but this rough patch won’t last forever and I’d hate to have enough money a few months down the road and wish I hadn’t sold my (the bank’s…) car.

Thank you again for your advice and sharing your story. While our lives and situations are obviously not directly apples to apples, it is very encouraging and I really appreciate you taking the time to share with me. Here’s hoping I can get a happy ending just as you did. All the best.

[hayhay7789]

Originally Posted by IanH

Ok, but the value of the car is.... not zero, with no engine.

So I don't know what you can sell it for, but it's probably around 10k.

So now, the cost of paying the loan off is roughly equal to replacing the engine. You are going to take a hit here (or rather you already have) but I don't think it is advisable to take the unknown road if you are betting it will cost less.

Valid points. I appreciate your input.

It’s definitely an option on my list. As it stands now though, I’m still leaning towards the stupid option of fixing this car. Selling it would eliminate the headache of fixing this car, but I would have to find and buy a car to replace this one. The way I see it, I’d be trading one headache for another one; at least this headache has a fun car at the end of the tunnel.

As silly, emotion-driven and perhaps irrational as it may be, I am quite attached to this car and all the plans I had once I got it. Outside of my emotional attachment, I lean towards keeping what I have for familiarity’s sake.

It’s silly and emotion-driven, but I dig my own grave and lie in it. That’s not to say that I’m discounting your points or thoughts at all, though. Those are definitely totally valid points, and the fact that you brought them up does help me in thinking out what my “plan B” might look like. For now, though, I will be stupid and sentimental, haha. Thank you again, though. Your input has proved invaluable.

[BlkGS]

You need a new financial advisor. Them telling you to get the longest loan possible to pay it off early is just wrong and stupid.

The real question is if you have the cash to fix the car. If you have the liquid cash in hand to fix it, and some savings beyond that, it might not be that bad (it's a bad idea but not the worst). If you don't have the cash in hand and will be taking on .pre debt to fix it, it's literally one of the worst ideas you could have. Like taking the loan and using it to buy lottery tickets wouldn't be that much worse of an idea, that's how bad of an idea it is.

[Cartman417209]

Am
I the first one to mention that it looks like they’re charging tax on labor?
I’ve never been to a shop that charges tax on labor. Wtf

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by hayhay7789

i am a dumbass

FWIW, don't be too hard on yourself.

You mentioned family. If you're married, maybe get your other half involved? They may have no clue about engines or cars or what to do, I don't mean that, but their buy-in to the plan and whatever makes sense.

If you're single, then it's just money, there will be more. Whatever you do won't be a totally terrible decision, just the best of the crappy choices.

Also there are other cars, so unless it belonged to your favorite dead relative who raised you form birth, don't be too attached to it.

You might actually plot out your options, then give it a week. Assuming you can arrange transportation.

[Altamate]

Originally Posted by Cartman417209

Am
I the first one to mention that it looks like they’re charging tax on labor?
I’ve never been to a shop that charges tax on labor. Wtf

That’s Canada

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by Altamate

That’s Canada

And several states here in the US.

[Cartman417209]

Originally Posted by Chihuahua

And several states here in the US.

What state in U.S. charges taxes on labor?

That seems like robbery. Cause if the book calls for 14hrs and they charge you for that but get done in 6 you just paid inflated taxes.
With my Indy shop if I ever needed something major done I’d just workout a deal to pay them under the table so they don’t have to report it either 🤣

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by hayhay7789

Thank you for the reply. I appreciate all the info you’ve given.

If borescope doesn’t show me much, is there anything I can do to verify damage elsewhere short of disassembling the engine? I’m certainly confident enough to disassemble, but I don’t have a covered space to work in unfortunately and I don’t feel all that comfortable leaving a disassembled motor in my parking lot haha. I’m guessing you might be right on all accounts - in the end I might have no choice but to end up going for the engine replacement anyway and I’d hate to take the chance on a rebuild and find it costs the same. I would be even more upset, though, if my engine was pulled out for replacement and it turned out it could have been fixed for less than $16k if I had just known beforehand it was “only” a crank replacement or something.

A full disassembly. Crank main journals and rod journals need to be checked for excessive wear. Damage from oiling or lack there off pretty much condemns the crank.

Absent excessive wear then crank and rods need to be checked for cracks.

Block gets inspected and to a much better degree than can be done using a borescope.

Aluminum block -- head too -- get a test for cracks.

The block and head and crank and cam all need to be thoroughly cleaned to ensure there is no debris in any of the oil passages. This includes piston oiling jets/nozzles (if present). A bit of metal can impair oil flow and the piston runs hot.

If bores are out of spec then these need be brought back into spec. Used to be able to bore cylinders oversize (0.015" to 0.030") and fit larger pistons. But with modern engines not sure there's that much extra metal. And nowadays with aluminum engines and cylinders there's often a special type of cylinder liner/treatment that creates a very durable sliding bearing surface that has to be duplicated. Or a suitable alternative done.

There's more. Lots more.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

If bores are out of spec then these need be brought back into spec. Used to be able to bore cylinders oversize (0.015" to 0.030") and fit larger pistons. But with modern engines not sure there's that much extra metal.

For the B58 there are no oversize piston rings or even oversize (well...undersize) rodbearings available according to realoem like various previous engines had.
So no boring/honing of the block and no regrind on the crank possible.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Cartman417209

What state in U.S. charges taxes on labor?

That seems like robbery. Cause if the book calls for 14hrs and they charge you for that but get done in 6 you just paid inflated taxes.
With my Indy shop if I ever needed something major done I’d just workout a deal to pay them under the table so they don’t have to report it either 🤣

I've never checked, but I assume that labor is pretty standard to be covered under sales tax.

If book calls for 14 hrs and you pay that but it only takes them 6, you paid inflated labor too, and sales tax on the labor. Not seeing how that's somehow worse. It's like if you get a job done and they say you'll need $500 in materials but they only use $250 of it to get the job done, of course you're paying tax on the $500 of material.

Though to be fair, this would definitely piss me off. Book times are wild. You'd think it would be more like a "maximum billable time", and if it got done faster you'd get charged for the actual time spent. Mechanics would then have the time to not rush too.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

For the B58 there are no oversize piston rings or even oversize (well...undersize) rodbearings available according to realoem like various previous engines had.
So no boring/honing of the block and no regrind on the crank possible.

https://10secondracing.com/products/...icinPier6fyNiT

Options do exist. Though I won't speculate on the quality (which could be fine).