[Definitive]

LOL, I edited my post, meant "such a" lol. Yea, crazy. I would fight it too, but I can take traffic scool and dont want to risk the judge being a dick too...

D

[Gobbler9483]

Ron1n, read through this website thoroughly:
http://www.highwayrobbery.net/
Item #9 discusses rolling right turns.

Looks like they got a pretty good picture of you driving the car so you won't be able to assert they don't know you were the driver. They send the ticket to the car's owner, with the assumption that the owner was driving.

I was stopped for a "CA stop" about 15 years ago at 6:00 AM enroute to work with no other cars around. I was told by the cop that she saw my hood dip when I was braking and since it didn't rise back up she knew I hadn't come to a complete stop.

[Psychorugby]

I don't know about California, but in Florida a stop is defined as the vehicle not moving for three seconds... and you have to stop behind the white line that is in front of the crosswalk. Those cameras are popping up around here too and are really annoying. They've already documented an increase in accidents related to the intersections with cameras as people slam on their brakes to avoid blowing through a yellow light. I usually come to a complete stop, but usually at the crosswalk since you have to pull out that far to see before making a right on red.

They have pictures of you, your car, and your plates... there's probably not much wiggle room on this one. Sucks.

[Gobbler9483]

Originally Posted by Ron1n

Vehicle Code (Section 21455.5(a)(1)) says that warning signs must be posted at each camera-equipped intersection and "visible to traffic approaching from all directions," or at all the main entrances to town "including, at a minimum, freeways, bridges, and state highway routes." (In a city with a large airport, I think that the airport should be considered to be a "main entrance.") Most cities elect to post the intersections rather than the town entrances, and occasionally some forget to post all four directions at the intersection, especially when they have just made a new camera installation. (There must be four signs even if there is only one camera monitoring one direction of traffic.)

The posting of warning signs is a "foundational" requirement - Defects # 2, # 3, # 6 and # 10 are others.

All signs must comply with CalTrans specifications: They must be at least 30" wide and 42" inches high, they must be at least 6 feet above the pavement level (to the bottom edge of the sign), and they must be laid-out per this CalTrans design...


I'm going to go back and make sure that there are signs in all 4 directions, because I don't recall there being any at all.

There weren't any signs at the intersection. Poway is particularly evil because they have chosen to exercise the clause that permits them to post signs at the entrance to the city (freeways, state highways, bridges) rather than at each monitored intersection as is done in the City of San Diego. There are NO freeways, state highways, or bridges that enter the City of Poway. Signs are posted at city limits on 4+ lane roads entering Poway, such as Pomerado, Scripps Poway, Twin Peaks, and Poway Blvd. However the way the law is worded they don't HAVE to be placed on major surface streets that are not state highways.

Oh, and you might also get fined for having unauthorized plates on the car. I wouldn't bring that up to the court.

[Ron1n]

So, they're actually there? Bugger....back to the drawing board.

And yeah, I already have highwayrobbery bookmarked...I plan on perusing it thoroughly (it's where I got that Vehicle Code thing above).

[Gobbler9483]

Originally Posted by Ron1n

So, they're actually there? Bugger....back to the drawing board.

Yes, there are Caltrans-compliant signs at Poway city limits on major roads but you should go verify to make sure it hasn't fallen down or been stolen along your route. If you entered Poway on a major road that did not have a sign you could try to make a claim that the road should have been posted. Scripps Poway, Poway, Pomerado, Ted Williams, Carrmel Mtn Blvd, and Twin Peaks all have interchanges with I-15 so you could certainly say that those are "main entrances" and should be posted at city limits.

[TheProduct]

In florida, the camera that took the video/picture must be paid for by the police department in order for them to rightfully give you a ticket. If it is paid for by the municipal government of that area, you do not have to pay the ticket if you do not live in that area. So if I travel to a town 5 minutes from my house and blow through a red light, and their camera sees it, i dont have to pay anything or even show up for anything.

[thkfast]

Youch! We just got these in my city and they go on line in 30 days. I can't believe how clear your face and license plate are in the photos! Ours will be both red light and speed enforcement cameras. An actual police officer will be reviewing each infraction prior to sending the ticket out. The registered owner of the vehicle is responsible for the ticket regardless of who was driving - they get away with that becuase it's a civil penalty, not a moving violation. There are some websites dedicated to nothing but the destruction of these devices!

If I were you, I'd argue you had a "protected lane or intersection". I didn't catch that the first few times I watched it! In most cities, you would have had a red light with a green right turn arrow which allows a non stop right turn. Something is wrong there.

[Spydeputy]

as the old saying goes. if someone was hitting you on the head w/ a pipe. would you want them to STOP or just SLOW DOWN ?

[Goody4]

Originally Posted by Spydeputy

as the old saying goes. if someone was hitting you on the head w/ a pipe. would you want them to STOP or just SLOW DOWN ?

And the Weird Analogy Award goes to....the post above.

OP: I know another poster in this thread was banging you pretty hard for your transgression. In fact, you told him to keep his opinion to himself, even though your thread headline asks for members' "thoughts". But you did the same thing he did to you, just yesterday, to someone else who also got a traffic citation. This falls under the heading of What Goes Around Comes Around and Pot Meet Kettle.

Originally Posted by Ron1n

OP, hard to say what your insurance rates will go up to, if they don't drop you (or your parents don't pull you off the policy as a result).

When you do that stuff, it's not just about you. You're on your parents' insurance policy, so it affects them. You're on the roads, so it affects us. You're speeding and that affects everyone.

If at 24, you can't be responsible on the road, perhaps you should find local tracks to enjoy yourself, or stick to racing games.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...2&postcount=61

I like the Holier-Than-Thou remarks (you deserve a ticket), the finger-pointing and tattle-tale (look at that other truck!) mentality this discussion has revealed.

Yes, the OP is only member here whoever slow-rolled through an obviously clear right turn. Yes, the OP should blow the other (SUV) driver in to the authorities because the OP shouldn't be only one getting a ticket in this video.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by TheProduct

In florida, the camera that took the video/picture must be paid for by the police department in order for them to rightfully give you a ticket. If it is paid for by the municipal government of that area, you do not have to pay the ticket if you do not live in that area. So if I travel to a town 5 minutes from my house and blow through a red light, and their camera sees it, i dont have to pay anything or even show up for anything.

Say what! Please provide the Florida statute that says that you can be ticketed in the community where you live.

You need to quit posting while doing drugs - that makes no sense.

[mfstout]

You didn't stop. You're busted. Okay. I've done it a hundred times myself. Sorry. You drove very responsibly, though. Slow, careful, almost stopped. At least you didn't run it like so any maniacs out there.

[mike-y]

the bottom line is he broke the law. it doesn't matter that no cars were coming, or they were turning the other direction, he still broke a law by not stopping at a red light, period. Just because you don't always get caught for doing it, doesn't make it okay.

I'm not sure if the "no one was coming" plea will work in court, and if you push the issue, they will think you are arrogant, but it really depends on what kind of mood the judge is in. If you're lucky, they'll reduce the fine and points, and may give you an option for traffic school instead. Maybe you can to that route and ask for school + reduced fine instead of the points?

[BK]

^^ Of course he can't really fight this in court because the rule is clear -- you stop, then go. But the point here is how a ticket in this situation is utter crap and is a good example of why red light cameras suck. His driving was completely safe. The cross-street had a green left-turn arrow, he came about as close as you can get to a full stop, and there was nobody anywhere nearby.

[airshane]

I really doubt he'll get anything out of the court except a fine. CA is broke and they need every dollar they can get. Of course I have no faith in the justice system when it comes to traffic law, and less faith in the goons that enforce these laws. These cameras, and most police officers, are just revenue collectors. Taxation at gunpoint. It's disgusting that we the people have allowed it go this far for this long.

[bimmertt]

wow. I didn't know these cameras monitored the right turn only lanes. how do they even know if you come to a complete stop?

[Ron1n]

Originally Posted by Goody4

I like the Holier-Than-Thou remarks (you deserve a ticket), the finger-pointing and tattle-tale (look at that other truck!) mentality this discussion has revealed.

Yes, the OP is only member here whoever slow-rolled through an obviously clear right turn. Yes, the OP should blow the other (SUV) driver in to the authorities because the OP shouldn't be only one getting a ticket in this video.

Dude was reported to be going 120 in a 50MPH zone. Even if he was doing 80 (which is what he said he was doing), that's an apples and oranges comparison. Please don't take things out of context to prove a weak point. We all know that even the law has gray areas, and that it's not just black and white.

[airshane]

Originally Posted by cgtsx07

wow. I didn't know these cameras monitored the right turn only lanes. how do they even know if you come to a complete stop?

Oh trust me they monitor every lane they can ... That particular violation makes them a lot of money. In Chicago they found that of the 10,000 violations issues, only around 200 were from straight-through violations. It has been said that you could drive from Earth to Jupiter and back before you would be involved in a right-turn collision from a rolling stop. Eventually after pressure from the local mall and business for they forced the city to stop issuing right turn violation. When the money dried up, the cameras got sent packing.

Just a side note - I was told that here in Denver if you don't stop at the white line or before the crosswalk, they'll still send you a ticket because technically you entered the intersection. What cracks me up is that I'm one of the few who actually stop at the line. Most people have their front wheels in the crosswalk when they stop, and the ground sensors that monitor vehicles are usually past the stop line into the crosswalk as well. I just find that kind of humorous.

At least in CO you can throw these things away. Unless the ticket is personally served to you by a process server then they have no way of proving you received the citation. Just don't visit the website because then they know you've seen it. After 90 days and a few letters demanding you pay, you're in the clear.

And you could always try what that guy in AZ did and wear a mask so they can't see your face at all.

[Ron1n]

Originally Posted by airshane

Oh trust me they monitor every lane they can ... That particular violation makes them a lot of money. In Chicago they found that of the 10,000 violations issues, only around 200 were from straight-through violations. It has been said that you could drive from Earth to Jupiter and back before you would be involved in a right-turn collision from a rolling stop. Eventually after pressure from the local mall and business for they forced the city to stop issuing right turn violation. When the money dried up, the cameras got sent packing.

Just a side note - I was told that here in Denver if you don't stop at the white line or before the crosswalk, they'll still send you a ticket because technically you entered the intersection. What cracks me up is that I'm one of the few who actually stop at the line. Most people have their front wheels in the crosswalk when they stop, and the ground sensors that monitor vehicles are usually past the stop line into the crosswalk as well. I just find that kind of humorous.

At least in CO you can throw these things away. Unless the ticket is personally served to you by a process server then they have no way of proving you received the citation. Just don't visit the website because then they know you've seen it. After 90 days and a few letters demanding you pay, you're in the clear.

And you could always try what that guy in AZ did and wear a mask so they can't see your face at all.

AZ guy ended up spending time in jail and paying some fines, so no, I think I'll pass. :P

I've removed my license plate from the car until such time that it's actually properly registered to that car, and that will avoid any tickets of this nature in the future, but still....

I've not checked to see if this is like AZ, though, where they have to process serve you for the ticket to be valid. Gonna check that next.

[BMWinNorthdakota]

Sucks.

[airshane]

Originally Posted by Ron1n

AZ guy ended up spending time in jail and paying some fines, so no, I think I'll pass. :P

I've removed my license plate from the car until such time that it's actually properly registered to that car, and that will avoid any tickets of this nature in the future, but still....

I've not checked to see if this is like AZ, though, where they have to process serve you for the ticket to be valid. Gonna check that next.

The guy in AZ took it to an extreme. Had he not gone through them so many times and blatantly waved his middle finger at the law, so to speak, he'd probably not have a problem. I didn't think they actually arrested him, just gave him a handful of tickets. He's still trying to make the state prove it was him. But it really goes to show it's all about money. If you had 50 some-odd tickets by actual uniformed cops you would not be driving. But 50 from a camera and you keep your license. Safety my ***.

I'm pretty sure CA has fixed that loophole and many states are trying to fix it as well. They just can't stand letting potential income slip through their fingers.

[Outlaw 06]

How does the government prove who was driving the vehicle at the time of the infraction?