[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

Fanboys are why certain companies are able to keep mediocre solutions and technology in production for so long, claiming "tradition" and "purity" of the marque.

Well said!

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by .:bHd:.

If chevy could "pull" more power out of that 6.2 without jeopardizing reliability, trust me they would do it.

Why would they pull more power out of it right now? It's the most HP you can buy at its price point.

There's more than just HP involved also. Emissions and fuel economy are huge concerns, and the LS3 does just fine with both right where it's at. Displacement is irrelevant. The important measure is the power output, and how well it delivers it, and there's no shortcoming there.

Originally Posted by .:bHd:.

So to you it doesn't matter how something is made as long as it gets the job done?

Sure it matters how its made. Now why don't you explain to us exactly what's wrong with the way the LS3 is made.


There's no real point to technology for technologie's sake. For its power output the LS3 is lightweight, robust, efficient, well balanced, easy to live with, and extremely cost effective. You simply can't buy another factory built engine for less money with equal performance.

[.:bHd:.]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Why would they pull more power out of it right now? It's the most HP you can buy at its price point.

There's more than just HP involved also. Emissions and fuel economy are huge concerns, and the LS3 does just fine with both right where it's at. Displacement is irrelevant. The important measure is the power output, and how well it delivers it, and there's no shortcoming there.

Why wouldn't they pull more power? It's like saying why would they wanna make more money when they are already making a good amount. There is always competition between car makers when it comes to engine output.


Sure it matters how its made. Now why don't you explain to us exactly what's wrong with the way the LS3 is made.


There's no real point to technology for technologie's sake. For its power output the LS3 is lightweight, robust, efficient, well balanced, easy to live with, and extremely cost effective. You simply can't buy another factory built engine for less money with equal performance.

You're not getting the point dude. There may be nothing wrong with it, but the fact that it's an old design just makes it unattracive.

If all the car makers did what chevy is doing we would get no where. In a decade BMW will most likely use a new form of technology in their engines while chevy uses what is in the BMW now.

It just seems to me that in the past 20 - 30 years, American manufacturers haven't really pushed any boundaries or made any significant impact on new technology. While the Germans, especially mercedes, come up with new shit with all their models.

There was an old saying. You wanna see whats gonna be standard in a Camary 15 years from now? Look at what Benz is offering in their cars.

they never offered stuck accelerators though

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by .:bHd:.

You're not getting the point dude. There may be nothing wrong with it, but the fact that it's an old design just makes it unattracive.

If all the car makers did what chevy is doing we would get no where. In a decade BMW will most likely use a new form of technology in their engines while chevy uses what is in the BMW now.

It just seems to me that in the past 20 - 30 years, American manufacturers haven't really pushed any boundaries or made any significant impact on new technology. While the Germans, especially mercedes, come up with new shit with all their models.

There was an old saying. You wanna see whats gonna be standard in a Camary 15 years from now? Look at what Benz is offering in their cars.

they never offered stuck accelerators though

How many times does it have to be said before you acknowledge that OHC motors were around before pushrods were? Both technologies are old as dirt, so stop pretending that one is new and modern and the other is ancient history.

Neither Mercedes or BMW is doing anything ground breaking to the ICE. As a matter of fact, if you want to talk about forward looking technology, where are their production hybrids? They're both WAY behind GM, Ford, Honda, and Toyota when it comes to ultra low emissions vehicles.

The days of the internal combustion engine in mainstream cars is numbered. It's an inefficent way to turn fuel into motion (because of the energy lost to heat) no matter what's done to it, and that's not going to change.

The technology BMW and Mercedes are using right now doesn't provide any real advantage over what GM is using from a performance, cost, or economic point of view....so why bother? Technology for the sake of it, and at the expense of reliability.

As for pushing boundries, you're not giving GM the credit its due. Magna-ride suspension was pioneered by GM, and is now liscensed to Ferrari (and a couple of others I think). GM is about to be selling a fairly mainstream series hybrid, which no one else is doing. They've got as many direct injection motors as BMW does, and have had for years. The Vette has had a heads up display available for the last 3 generations. They're using a front engine chassis with a rear mounted transmission to distribute weight more evenly, which is extremely rare. The Vette uses advanced materials to save weight even on the base models, and the Z06 and ZR1 are both even more advanced, using hydro formed aluminium chassis, and even more lightweight materials.

Now what exactly is it that you think the Germans are doing that's advancing the state of the art in automobiles? Give us a couple of examples.

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

How many times does it have to be said before you acknowledge that OHC motors were around before pushrods were? Both technologies are old as dirt, so stop pretending that one is new and modern and the other is ancient history.

Neither Mercedes or BMW is doing anything ground breaking to the ICE. As a matter of fact, if you want to talk about forward looking technology, where are their production hybrids? They're both WAY behind GM, Ford, Honda, and Toyota when it comes to ultra low emissions vehicles.

The days of the internal combustion engine in mainstream cars is numbered. It's an inefficent way to turn fuel into motion (because of the energy lost to heat) no matter what's done to it, and that's not going to change.

The technology BMW and Mercedes are using right now doesn't provide any real advantage over what GM is using from a performance, cost, or economic point of view....so why bother? Technology for the sake of it, and at the expense of reliability.

Thinking about is...sludging engines are pretty frequent nowadays. Direct injection seems to cause a lot of problem. HPFP faliures, carbon build ups.
New does not always means better.

[c0nstant]

Originally Posted by .:bHd:.

There was an old saying. You wanna see whats gonna be standard in a Camary 15 years from now? Look at what Benz is offering in their cars.

wtf old saying is that? i have an actual saying, 'if it aint broke, dont fix it'.

[.:bHd:.]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

How many times does it have to be said before you acknowledge that OHC motors were around before pushrods were? Both technologies are old as dirt, so stop pretending that one is new and modern and the other is ancient history.

Neither Mercedes or BMW is doing anything ground breaking to the ICE. As a matter of fact, if you want to talk about forward looking technology, where are their production hybrids? They're both WAY behind GM, Ford, Honda, and Toyota when it comes to ultra low emissions vehicles.

The days of the internal combustion engine in mainstream cars is numbered. It's an inefficent way to turn fuel into motion (because of the energy lost to heat) no matter what's done to it, and that's not going to change.

The technology BMW and Mercedes are using right now doesn't provide any real advantage over what GM is using from a performance, cost, or economic point of view....so why bother? Technology for the sake of it, and at the expense of reliability.

As for pushing boundries, you're not giving GM the credit its due. Magna-ride suspension was pioneered by GM, and is now liscensed to Ferrari (and a couple of others I think). GM is about to be selling a fairly mainstream series hybrid, which no one else is doing. They've got as many direct injection motors as BMW does, and have had for years. The Vette has had a heads up display available for the last 3 generations. They're using a front engine chassis with a rear mounted transmission to distribute weight more evenly, which is extremely rare. The Vette uses advanced materials to save weight even on the base models, and the Z06 and ZR1 are both even more advanced, using hydro formed aluminium chassis, and even more lightweight materials.

Now what exactly is it that you think the Germans are doing that's advancing the state of the art in automobiles? Give us a couple of examples.

Really? Last I checked BMW was the first car maker with a hydrogen car (the 7 series). Toyota was the first to mass produce a hybrid. All that GM is doing is using technology that is already there.

And if you wanna talk about innovation get your facts straight. Audi was the first to use AWD. The most powerful naturally aspirated production engine of all time is still the McLaren F1 Engine developed by BMW. The most powerful diesel is still made by Mercedes Benz. The first supercharged car was a benz. First wastegage actuator was made by porsche. First all aluminum body was the NSX. Carbon Fiber was first used in a car by Mclaren. First DCT was made by VW. Xenons were first introduced by Benz.

Those are just off the top of my head. I'm not saying that GM didn't do anything. They have accomplishments of their own. But when it comes to the past 20 years. Seems like they're at a stand still.

Anyways dude you keep loving your corvettes and I'll love what ever i want. This is escalating into something bigger than it was supposed to be.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by .:bHd:.

Really? Last I checked BMW was the first car maker with a hydrogen car (the 7 series). Toyota was the first to mass produce a hybrid. All that GM is doing is technology that is already there.

Then what is the Hy Wire?



Or the Sequel?



Or the Equinox Fuel Cell( these are actually on the road like the Hydrogen 7 is since 2007)?



GM also has developed a Gen V fuel cell system as well( though no applications in a vehicle yet). The Equinox uses the Gen IV system.

And way to ignore the OHV vs OHC issue.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by .:bHd:.

Really? Last I checked BMW was the first car maker with a hydrogen car (the 7 series).

Where can I buy one? Concpets are BS and you know it. Hydrogen is a pipe dream anyway. It's not a fuel, it's a storage medium and a poor one at that.

Since you brought it up though, GM built the first hydrogen fuel cell vehicle in 1966.
http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/gm-electrovan.htm

Originally Posted by .:bHd:.

Toyota was the first to mass produce a hybrid. All that GM is doing is using technology that is already there.

And if you wanna talk about innovation get your facts straight. Audi was the first to use AWD. The most powerful naturally aspirated production engine of all time is still the McLaren F1 Engine developed by BMW. The most powerful diesel is still made by Mercedes Benz. The first supercharged car was a benz. First wastegage actuator was made by porsche. First all aluminum body was the NSX. Carbon Fiber was first used in a car by Mclaren. First DCT was made by VW. Xenons were first introduced by Benz.

Those are just off the top of my head. I'm not saying that GM didn't do anything. They have accomplishments of their own. But when it comes to the past 20 years. Seems like they're at a stand still.

Most of the stuff I listed was done in the last 20 years. Bringing supercar engines into a discussion about mass produced vehicles is pointless. It has no bearing on anything. You've seen what GM can do with a $100k pricepoint, what do you think they could build if you told them they could price it at $250k?!

Also, why are you talking about the NSX when you specifically said the GERMANS were pushing the boundries?


Some GM firsts:

Automatic transmissions
Anti-lock brakes
Fuel injection
Heads-up display in cars
Tire pressure monitors
Magnetically adjustable shocks
First production electric vehicle in NA (I say in NA because the other stuff being sold in other parts of the world didn't have to meet US crash standards)
First series hybrid in NA (also the first plug in hybrid to be sold here)
First hybrid SUV
First automatic crash notification system (On-Star, which BMW copied).

Need I go on? You listed things from half a dozen different companies in order to compile an impressive list. All the above is just from GM.

Originally Posted by .:bHd:.

Anyways dude you keep loving your corvettes and I'll love what ever i want. This is escalating into something bigger than it was supposed to be.

You're the one who escalated it. If you're going to post an opinion without any real basis in reality (like saying that GM hasn't done anything in the last 20 years) you should be prepared for someone to refute it.

[c0nstant]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Where can I buy one? Concpets are BS and you know it. Hydrogen is a pipe dream anyway. It's not a fuel, it's a storage medium and a poor one at that.

Since you brought it up though, GM built the first hydrogen fuel cell vehicle in 1966.
http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/gm-electrovan.htm






Most of the stuff I listed was done in the last 20 years. Bringing supercar engines into a discussion about mass produced vehicles is pointless. It has no bearing on anything. You've seen what GM can do with a $100k pricepoint, what do you think they could build if you told them they could price it at $250k?!

Also, why are you talking about the NSX when you specifically said the GERMANS were pushing the boundries?


Some GM firsts:

Automatic transmissions
Anti-lock brakes
Fuel injection
Heads-up display in cars
Tire pressure monitors
Magnetically adjustable shocks
First production electric vehicle in NA (I say in NA because the other stuff being sold in other parts of the world didn't have to meet US crash standards)
First series hybrid in NA (also the first plug in hybrid to be sold here)
First hybrid SUV
First automatic crash notification system (On-Star, which BMW copied).

Need I go on? You listed things from half a dozen different companies in order to compile an impressive list. All the above is just from GM.





You're the one who escalated it. If you're going to post an opinion without any real basis in reality (like saying that GM hasn't done anything in the last 20 years) you should be prepared for someone to refute it.

[Sephiroth]

Its one thing to give a car its due credit, but its another to swing off its nuts. The vette is a nice car but its not the end all be all...

[b0bab0i]

bhd just got owned

[josephr25]

Originally Posted by jh valley

In the sarcastic voice of Jim Rome:

UHH OHH

1all nobody is saying the C6 is the end all of cars. If you lurk around the forum long enough almost everybody says their parent-leased 328 with replica CSLs is the best car out there.

The C6 is a world-class sports car; the interior may not be on par w/ others but they've been working on it. It makes me anxious for the C7 or whatever comes out. And it proves that America can dish it out when it comes to speed.

The only BMW I would take over a C6 Z06 is mabye a Gintani Supercharged M3

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by Kampfer

In the sarcastic voice of Jim Rome:

UHH OHH

1all nobody is saying the C6 is the end all of cars. If you lurk around the forum long enough almost everybody says their parent-leased 328 with replica CSLs is the best car out there.

The C6 is a world-class sports car; the interior may not be on par w/ others but they've been working on it. It makes me anxious for the C7 or whatever comes out. And it proves that America can dish it out when it comes to speed.

This thing is great new sig coming

[FStop7]

The C6 does depreciate hard (so does the M3). I bought my E90 M3 in October of 2008. I was split between the M and a C6. I found a brand new C6 at a dealership in NorCal - red, 6 speed, Z51 suspension, for $38,999. I also found a "new" 2008 Z06 for $58,000. I ended up passing on the Vette because I wanted more practicality, and BMW's 0.9% financing didn't hurt. "Free money? Okay!"

I have room for a second car now and the Vette (Z06 or Grand Sport) is at the top of the list, along with the GT3 and GTR. The Vette is a tremendous value proposition and the LSx engine is one of the finest in the world, period. You're smoking crack if you think anything else. The amount of engineering time and money that's gone into the LSx would stun the haters.

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by index1489

The only BMW I would take over a C6 Z06 is mabye a Gintani Supercharged M3

i would take an HPF Stage 4 Turbo E46 m3 or TaZaM3's AA Custom Turbo E46 M3 over a Gintani Supercharged M3

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by FStop7

The C6 does depreciate hard (so does the M3). I bought my E90 M3 in October of 2008. I was split between the M and a C6. I found a brand new C6 at a dealership in NorCal - red, 6 speed, Z51 suspension, for $38,999. I also found a "new" 2008 Z06 for $58,000. I ended up passing on the Vette because I wanted more practicality, and BMW's 0.9% financing didn't hurt. "Free money? Okay!"

I have room for a second car now and the Vette (Z06 or Grand Sport) is at the top of the list, along with the GT3 and GTR. The Vette is a tremendous value proposition and the LSx engine is one of the finest in the world, period. You're smoking crack if you think anything else. The amount of engineering time and money that's gone into the LSx would stun the haters.

then please go ahead and stun BHD....he seems to be an idiot based on this thread alone, he could use the schooling.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by benmoooon

i would take an HPF Stage 4 Turbo E46 m3 or TaZaM3's AA Custom Turbo E46 M3 over a Gintani Supercharged M3

well...Taza's is not available in any sort of production. I do believe he is selling it though

[.:bHd:.]

Originally Posted by Sniz

then please go ahead and stun BHD....he seems to be an idiot based on this thread alone, he could use the schooling.

hahaaa you sir are a moron.

@ jeremey. I said american car makers haven't made progress so to prove that i posted japanese achievements also. If you're putting a heads up display in the same category as a piece of incredible engineering that is the mclaren f1 engine, then it is really pointless for me to continue this.

I'll take my words back when an american car maker can make something even close to that engine.

Oh and the seven series is on sale to a select group of people its not a concept.

Keep defending your corvette dude. Just be careful your roof doesn't fly off

[c0nstant]

fuuuuu i hate to say it, but ibtl

[eVitO]

Wooow, 0~60 all in 1st gear?