[ALPINE6SPD]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Ummm...going to hard to keep that promise.

You are comparing the ATS to the CTS. The ATS is going to weigh just over 3300 lbs. Lightest car in the segment. CTS is over 500 lbs heavier.

The turbo-4 ATS will have 270hp. So...30 more hp and 100 lbs less weight. Willing to bet it will be quicker than the new 328i.

we will see I guess. BMW enginer are always underrated. I am comparing a CTS with over 60hp more than the new 328i turbo engine and being slower yes because if you do the jhp/weight comparison it should be faster right? Also the CT-V is a great car and very fast but it should be even faster than it is. Its slower than an M5 which weighs more so my logic is going by history not by paper numbers. The CTS should also be faster than a new 535i and it isnt as well so yet another case in my favor. I can keep going but ill stop now.

The ATS is a going to be a very good car and I am sure its going to be made well. I just think it looks like an old mans car espically the rear. Thats just my opinion though and I am sure there are plenty of people that think my e90 is ugly too so in the end it doesnt really matter what I think.

[Pangloss]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

I see you are a new-ish member to the board. The HPFP problem is actually a much bigger problem than you think.

Some people on the board are their 3rd or 4th HPFP with their N54 car.

I'm not so new that I'm unfamiliar with the HPFP problem. We did a post count on it recently on 1addicts. 100 distinct owner posts would be 0.1% of 100,000 cars sold, and that number is probably more like 500,000. 1000 incidents would be 1%. You'd need to show evidence of 10,000 instances to hit 10%. And you STILL wouldn't be able to claim that the car was "unreliable" (though as I indicated that would be enough for me).

[secretsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Pangloss

I'm not so new that I'm unfamiliar with the HPFP problem. We did a post count on it recently on 1addicts. 100 distinct owner posts would be 0.1% of 100,000 cars sold, and that number is probably more like 500,000. 1000 incidents would be 1%. You'd need to show evidence of 10,000 instances to hit 10%. And you STILL wouldn't be able to claim that the car was "unreliable" (though as I indicated that would be enough for me).

Sounds like funny math to me. Are there 100k owners on 1addicts? Of course not. Are there 100k owners on 1addicts looking at thread? Of course not.

[Pangloss]

Originally Posted by ENINTY

You can try and justify it all you want, but when a major system fails on a car, which leaves people stranded at best, and in a dangerous situation at worst; is an example of an unreliable car.

Evidence of an unreliable car. Unreliable product line is another matter. One which requires statistical evidence.

I think you have the dates wrong; it's 2025 that the CAFE goes to 54 MPG.

Thanks, I stand corrected.

So we are in agreement. BMW can try to push me into a 4 cylinder, but I'll shop elsewhere because there are many other manufacturers that have great 4 cylinder turbos too, and at 2/3rds the price.

More power to you. BMW is an engine company first and foremost, and people should hold them to that by demanding superior engines for the prices they charge, so I applaud you for that. If they're going to make 4-cyl engines and charge more for the previous year's offerings, they'd better be darn good 4-cyl engines. Absolutely.

[Pangloss]

Originally Posted by secretsquirrel

Sounds like funny math to me. Are there 100k owners on 1addicts? Of course not. Are there 100k owners on 1addicts looking at thread? Of course not.

Exactly. The evidence isn't here. It's a poor sample anyway -- you can't calculate the variance. People often log into forums to complain, for example.

[secretsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Pangloss

Exactly. The evidence isn't here. It's a poor sample anyway -- you can't calculate the variance. People often log into forums to complain, for example.

I think its hard to calculate the exact seriousness of the issue via the internet, but I don't think there is any doubt that the 335 is less than reliable. Next time you have a HPFP issue, ask the service manager or (or better yet) a mechanic how many HPFP they replace in a week. The number will surprise you. There is a reason why they keep a load of them in stock.

[MediaArtist]

Pangloss, I understand you love your 135i and the awesome n54 engine. Would you be so kind to start another thread where you debate how reliable it is, taking that argument out of this thread? Every time I get an e-mail update about this thread, I really want to know what people think about the ATS or ATS-V, not the n54 or 135i/335i. Since this is the "non-BMW" car discussion forum, I think this request isn't out of line.

Thanks for being so kind.

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Pangloss, I understand you love your 135i and the awesome n54 engine. Would you be so kind to start another thread where you debate how reliable it is, taking that argument out of this thread? Every time I get an e-mail update about this thread, I really want to know what people think about the ATS or ATS-V, not the n54 or 135i/335i. Since this is the "non-BMW" car discussion forum, I think this request isn't out of line.

Thanks for being so kind.

Please don't flame Pangloss for the N54 discussion. I started it, not him. I do think it is a relevant discussion since the ATS will be the true competitor to the F30. But what can anyone really say about the ATS when it exists as just pictures and specs? Looks (in photographs) are subjective, and specs are like statistics.

Let's wait until the car is on the street and we can drive it before judgment is passed (probably goes for my feelings about the F30 too).

Cheers

[Q4P]

That car still doesn't scream cool at me... it seems that no matter what Cadillac tries to do it comes out being a car for a considerably older individual. The interior is pretty decent but that steering wheel smells Chevy Volt and those dash gauges are terrible.

[M3_WC]

Rumored Cadillac is thinking about a RWD 2-seat roadster off this platform.

[AZ135]

it seems that no matter what Cadillac tries to do it comes out being a car for a considerably older individual. The interior is pretty decent but that steering wheel smells Chevy Volt and those dash gauges are terrible.

I do see what you mean about the exterior. It's more conservative than the CTS, but I'm a younger guy at 26 and this will likely be my next car. This seems like it should be the best driver's car in the segment and the interior looks great. CUE looks to be a killer feature that blows my lame iDrive out of the water. I guess I will wait for the the V version and some actual road tests to decide between the 2.0t with a manual or an ATS-V (also interested in the next A3).

To me, BMW has just strayed too far from the formula that got them their reputation and another company, be it Cadillac or Infiniti, is going to reap the rewards.

Maybe BMW should come out with a 1 series sedan or at least the 5 door in the U.S. for people that want a nimble car with rear doors... Oh we get the x1. Fact that they have indeed strayed.