[dustinst22]

Originally Posted by herbz

Because, we all know the specs of the new M3: 420bhp, 295lb/ft tq at 3k rpm, 3500lbs

And we all know the specs of a slightly modified 135i(exhuast, DP, ECU tune): 450bhp, 500lb/ft tq at 1800rpm, 3400lb

You do the math.

Not only that, but with a few upgrades we should be able to take around 200 lbs off the 135.

[tdc]

Originally Posted by herbz

And also, yes you can keep your warranty, I see no need for your lil smiley face when people on this forum ahve already posted about getting their oil changed with proceeds.

Getting an oil change is not keeping your warranty. Oil changes are covered by the maintenance plan not the vehicle warranty.

If you have PROcede, Xede, etc. on your 335 you voided your engine warranty. And as for the Magnusson-Moss Act, it's extremely simple for BMW to prove the software in your car isn't the factory software. All they have to do is run a quick diagnostic and it will show the faults everywhere. And any modification of the DME voids any engine warranty you have. Plain and simple.

And it never fails. Whenever a new model comes out these comparisons will always rear its ugly head. The one thing that always happens is that people compare apples to oranges. You cannot compare a stock vehicle to a modified one. It's simply not the same thing - no matter how much you argue - it's a stock vehicle vs. a modified one and it's not a direct comparison.

Now, to answer the OP's original question. I don't think BMW killed the sales of the M3 with the 335/135. An M3 is always going to be an M3 and it will always have its own market. The strength of the 335/135 isn't going to impeded on that demographic mainly because it's simply a different demographic. It's the same with the 135 killing the 335. It's not going to happen because the demographic is different.

[DFW_M]

Again, the weight and power/TQ outputs are not the only factors... The gearing, CG position, balance, etc play role, too.

Read this: http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/corvette_z06.asp
Example C06: wt: 3132 lbs, 505HP/470 ft-lbs., 0-60: 3.7s
Porche Turbo: wt: 3494 lbs, 480HP/460 ft-lbs., 0-60: 3.7s

Porche is 350 lbs heavier, less power, but still same 0-60 times, so...

We'll have to wait and see...

[rchat1975]

I think that bmw never took into account the mods that a select few owners of 335i would do to their cars. They almost always power the m3 about 100 hp more than the highest level Non M 3 series. Most people of the 335i will never mod their car more than rims and/or intake + exhaust if at all. Someone made a point before that most 335i's are stock The 335i members of this forum are a rare breed ie. small percentage of people who will mod their cars even at the risk of losing the warranty. That can be called passion in some cases. I have a e36 m3 but BMW has upped the price of the next m3 a little out of my reach so I will wait until year 3 to buy one. It will be approx 10k less at that point. I currently have a e90 330xi but I will be trading/selling that for a 335i next year. I think the 335i is THE BEST VALUE IN THE AUTO WORLD. The engine and the car will be talked about 20-25 years from now.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by rchat1975

I think that bmw never took into account the mods that a select few owners of 335i would do to their cars. They almost always power the m3 about 100 hp more than the highest level Non M 3 series. Most people of the 335i will never mod their car more than rims and/or intake + exhaust if at all. Someone made a point before that most 335i's are stock The 335i members of this forum are a rare breed ie. small percentage of people who will mod their cars even at the risk of losing the warranty. That can be called passion in some cases. I have a e36 m3 but BMW has upped the price of the next m3 a little out of my reach so I will wait until year 3 to buy one. It will be approx 10k less at that point. I currently have a e90 330xi but I will be trading/selling that for a 335i next year. I think the 335i is THE BEST VALUE IN THE AUTO WORLD. The engine and the car will be talked about 20-25 years from now.

+1

[Andrew9931]

one word... HANDLING

me and my friend were driving around some curvey roads and his e46 csl m3 took my e92 335i like it was garbage...

[tdc]

I highly doubt your friend has a M3 CSL. It was never brought into the US due to emissions and crash tests.

[herbz]

Originally Posted by tdc

Getting an oil change is not keeping your warranty. Oil changes are covered by the maintenance plan not the vehicle warranty.

If you have PROcede, Xede, etc. on your 335 you voided your engine warranty. And as for the Magnusson-Moss Act, it's extremely simple for BMW to prove the software in your car isn't the factory software. All they have to do is run a quick diagnostic and it will show the faults everywhere. And any modification of the DME voids any engine warranty you have. Plain and simple.

And it never fails. Whenever a new model comes out these comparisons will always rear its ugly head. The one thing that always happens is that people compare apples to oranges. You cannot compare a stock vehicle to a modified one. It's simply not the same thing - no matter how much you argue - it's a stock vehicle vs. a modified one and it's not a direct comparison.

Now, to answer the OP's original question. I don't think BMW killed the sales of the M3 with the 335/135. An M3 is always going to be an M3 and it will always have its own market. The strength of the 335/135 isn't going to impeded on that demographic mainly because it's simply a different demographic. It's the same with the 135 killing the 335. It's not going to happen because the demographic is different.

Well, thanks for your input (fyi I am the OP haha)

you bring up some interesting points but I'm pretty sure if you find a good dealership or know someone, you can get around keeping your warranty with an ECU tune.

i also disagree that we cannot compare modified cars to stock cars, especially in this situation. i mean yeah, modified vs. stock is unfair if it's some sort of huge engine swap vs. a stock car. but this is nothing but a $1200 mod (cheaper than new tires) that drastically changes the performance, and in many ways makes it much better than the M3 for alot less money.

you do have a good point about the demographic, true the two cars have began to attract completely different types of buyers. IMO the M3 has always been the ultimate enthusiast BMW since the e30... but the tables seem tohave turned with the e92.

[Russellnyc]

I love how this same conversation comes up every time. I remember when the e46 330ci came out and it was as fast as the e36 m3, 5.4 or 5.5 0-60. Everyone on bimmerforums flipped out arguing about it. I also remember when the e36 328is came out and it was 6.6 seconds 0-60, faster than the e30 m3, which was very upsetting to a lot of people who owned M3s. When the e36 M3 was released, everyone said it was too soft and luxurious and not a real M car anymore. When the e46 M3 came out, everyone said it finally had enough power, but that the steering was too light, and that it was too isolated compared to the e36 M3. These correlations aren't accidents, they're part of the marketing plan. The e92 M3 will be great, and before long, there will be another non-M coupe that matches its performance ad infinitum...

[Becksgold]

Originally Posted by herbz

I honestly believe that BMW made a big mistake with the M3 this time around.

Now that we have all the official stats of the M3 (420hp, < 300lb/ft, 3470lb), its pretty obvious that a modded 335i/135i will absolutely kill an M3 for thousands less while still being able to have the same warranty. I mean, it won't even be close. Let's face it: A modded 335i with 400whp and globs of low end torque will just absolutely RAPE the new M3. Let alone what the lightweight excellent handling 135i will do to it.

The M3 has always been the BMW for the enthusiast market. No other BMW has really touched the M3, even the V10 M5 and M6 can't come close to the M3 CSL around a track. But now, a 135i with $10k into it will blow this new V8 M3 out of the water so hard it won't even be a contest.

Not to mention it will cost thousands upon thousands to improve on the V8 engine, while as little as $5 grand can give you better numbers out of the N54.

I just honestly don't think BMW intended for this to happen, it seems like they are oblivious to the fact that you can get huge power numbers out of a twin turboed engine.

IMO why would anyone buy an M3 now. What is the point besides looks, and the name "M3". The 135i is lighter on its feet, has a better more modable engine, and a more compliant ride. M3 owners are not going to tolerate being beat by a 135i that costs $30 grand less than their overpriced overweight Lexus/RS4 dildo competitor.

Previous 3 series models could not come close to catching an M3, even modded. The 335 and 135 have changed that. I think BMW might have killed the M3 with these cars.

Just my opinion. any thoughts?

"M division" is the most one of the most respected inhouse tuning companies in the world.. They have never let the BMW enthusiast down before... so just wait for the M3 !!! V8 normally power sounds awesome...!

[Year's_End]

Two things:

1) Very few people mod their cars. The M3 is the far better choice for those that want the power without touching the cars settings.

2) Why did the engineers over at the M Division knock the size of the engine down from 5 to 4 liters? It seems like they could've gotten so much more out of it. Limiting themselves to 4 just seems kind of strange...even the 2 year old RS4 uses a 4.2 liter V8. Would it really have made the engine that much heavier or something?

[hotrod182]

For serious track duty, the heat that the turbo generates underhood can, and does handicap it. (see magazine articles, You Tube video, etc. ) One of my clients has a GT3 Cup Car, he said the Turbo 911 couldn't come close to surviving a race like the NA Porsches can.

[derryck]

hell, the e46 M3 costs upward of $20k to get any real gains out of it. the high strung NA engines are basically impossible to modify since they are maxed out from the factory.

My E46 M3 is a little over 320RWHP which is about 40RWHP over stock and I consider that to be some 'real gains' and I have not spent even $20K in mods and my car is close to 3,100 lbs. I also own a 335i with Procede and love both cars. BMW will not have any trouble selling the upcoming M3 as it's still an M car and BMW will keep production down as they always do. The M3 is track bred and the NA V8 is driven as much by their racing program as anything else. Go to m3forum.com and you'll find lots of people who have spent lots of money modding their M3...that won't change with the upcoming M3. I think you have a narrow perspective...any car can be made fast if you throw enough money at it, FI'd cars are just easier to extract bigger gains which usually translates into cheaper mods. I wouldn't have purchased a 335 if it wasn't blown...I bought it specifically to do some 'tweaking' and have a nice sleeper DD.

[Gort]

Originally Posted by berm3

I can already see new thread coming in near future to this forum "Anyone thinks BMW killed the 335i with the 135i"

They already did several weeks ago..

[Gort]

The one thing that I still find incredible about the 335i is the mileage for the amount of power and especially the torque. While many potential owners of the new M3 probably wouldn't give a hoot, that puppy's published MPG's look very thirsty.

[c0nstant]

Originally Posted by tdc

I highly doubt your friend has a M3 CSL. It was never brought into the US due to emissions and crash tests.

+1 CSLs are pretty hard to come by. especially here in the states...
i mean, its way too hot and theres way too much traffic in some areas; driving without a/c and a radio would suck
and driving in the rain, forget about it in a CSL lol

[Cadillac Johnson]

I think BMW killed the M3 with the M3.

The 335i is an awesome car, and it's finally what a non-M BMW should have been all along. The problem is, BMW has softened up the M cars with every succession. The M cars arent improving at the same rate as the non-M cars, which inevitably closes the gap.

[mpimping]

no

[bubbletea 4 me]

when did M3 become a drag car? the way many of you put it made it sound like M3 supposed to be super fast in a straightline, but you know what? it's NOT! it's fast but compare to others in the same price range, there are faster cars (ie. Vett, GTR, etc..).
now, you can mod a 335i to make it "faster" than a M3 for probably less money, but it's NOT a true M. what defines a M is the overall performance, the "balance"..not big horse power. If you want big power, go get an AMG.. nothing touches those!
I read it in one of my mags (was it Motrotred? automobile? C&D? one of those) that did an interview with a M designer... the guy said it's easy to make huge power (like AGM), but what BMW tries to accomplish is a car that's balanced in everyway and a track machine. when going on a track, balance and handling is more important than just pure HP ..

those that kept saying 335i will kill a M3 blah blah blah is really missing the point of a M. is it overpriced? yes.. can you make a 335i/135i faster w/less money? yes. but you will not make a 335i drive like a M because it's missing many things that truely make a M.. a M!! for godsake, a 335i doesnt even have a LSD.. it's NOT a true track car compare to an M so this is a mood point.

[imolazhp_ci]

you kids are ridiculous. bmw was entirely smart, they are making the M3's in far lower quantities now. BMW is not interested in M sells because it's not their primary market, right now they are concerned with making cars that only compete with other BMW models that way there is more incentive to buy a BMW. it used to be that people only bought a BMW over a Mercedes if they could afford an M series. NOW that they have entirely overtaken mercedes in overall sales, they want to spread their general market share.

[Comet]

I'd take an M3 over my 335...
the amount of cash/time/effort u'd have to drop into the 335 to make it HANDLE like an M3 is not worth it..

ppl put too much emphasis on 1/4 miles...
no they didn't kill it

it is still a superior car...

[e92OMG]

To be honest i think anyone that is getting an e92 m3 see a 135i next to them speeding away will not even bother to give it a second glance or a thought that ya he could take me. Im pretty sure the m3 guy will think wow what a idiot.

NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE IN A FUTRE 135I but your still a 1 series to alllllllll bmw owners