[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by F85MTuNED

If this really weighs 3800lbs that's insanity imo.

Totally agree, and I doubt that 3814lb figure is with a full tank of gas. Add a driver, and a passenger and suddenly the package weighs close to two tonne. Yikes. What on earth were they thinking?
.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by spool twice

I expect the G87c to be similar to the G8x, which is a lot more stable around a fast track after my M-driving school experience with both of them.

The F87c just doesn't have the chassis to put down the power, and the suspension, although great for the F-chassis, isn't as cohesive in how it responds like the G8x. The F-series chassis always feels like the front and rear's never worked together at the limit to me.

In my mind... nothing worked in the F87... I am one of the few that feels that way... I think it's effectively a drift car more so than any sort of serious performance car... I think the G will indeed fix this... but when I got my f87c, I was flabbergasted at how poor the stock suspension of an M car can be... this HAS to be better.

[///Mangler]

Originally Posted by Jayf30

What year can we expect a new gen to stop gaining weight? Lol

They have to get the weight up, so when they start adding batteries and hybrid stuff it won't be so bad.

T

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Totally agree, and I doubt that 3814lb figure is with a full tank of gas. Add a driver, and a passenger and suddenly the package weighs close to two tonne. Yikes. What on earth were they thinking?
.

Major cost savings moving everything to CLAR + build in Mexico. Even the body panel design was probably dictated by cost cutting. This allows them to pretty seriously undercut a Cayman GTS 4.0. Let software + tires mask the weight gain.

Regardless of the criticism, this car is almost in a class by itself.

[OUGrad05]

Hope the mods have brought the ban hammer to some of the folks in this thread, wow.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Regardless of the criticism, this car is almost in a class by itself.

Yes, that would be the "heavyweight" class.

[Sethhboii]

Originally Posted by Spacegrau

Looks horrendous BMW died after the E series

Yeah not true lmao

[lens]

I compare the new M2 to an amazon box.

Plain on the outside, good inside.


You realize that with age and such, people are eventually going to have different tastes (no matter how bad their taste in cars is) you put this car in front of people, and 85% of them will call it ugly, while the other 15% will love it. It doesn't matter to BMW as long as the 15% buy the car, they will call it a success.

From the complaints about the car so far:

Too boxy
looks like a kia
weird curves
too heavy (this is legit, how does this car weigh as much as xDrive cars)


People might complain about how the M2 chassis didn't match the engine, but most people don't keep the car stock so they fix it with better suspension.

In this case, unless you replace a billion things to reduce weight, I don't see how you're going to have a good handling car when it's gonna weigh 4000lbs with a driver in it.

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by ASAP

In my mind... nothing worked in the F87... I am one of the few that feels that way... I think it's effectively a drift car more so than any sort of serious performance car... I think the G will indeed fix this... but when I got my f87c, I was flabbergasted at how poor the stock suspension of an M car can be... this HAS to be better.

You probably should look at Porsche then to be honest if you want the most balanced suspension setup. I had some lengthy conversations with some very experienced BMW/Porsche instructors at my last HPDE including letting a few take some laps in my OG. None of them were surprised on how the F87 felt (a few it was first time lapping an F87). Twitchy rear end and stiff suspension has been the norm since the e30 days and probably isn't going to change much with added weight.

The biggest takeaway was the car needs more camber in the front period but the suspension setup felt fine for intermediate track use. No chassis BMW uses is ever going to feel like a Porsche no matter how much weight you add.

[ronin13013]

This is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by chaungo

I compare the new M2 to an amazon box.

Plain on the outside, good inside.


You realize that with age and such, people are eventually going to have different tastes (no matter how bad their taste in cars is) you put this car in front of people, and 85% of them will call it ugly, while the other 15% will love it. It doesn't matter to BMW as long as the 15% buy the car, they will call it a success.

From the complaints about the car so far:

Too boxy
looks like a kia
weird curves
too heavy (this is legit, how does this car weigh as much as xDrive cars)


People might complain about how the M2 chassis didn't match the engine, but most people don't keep the car stock so they fix it with better suspension.

In this case, unless you replace a billion things to reduce weight, I don't see how you're going to have a good handling car when it's gonna weigh 4000lbs with a driver in it.

[PAS]

The M240i now looks kind of wimpy. Love the look of the new M2.

[Don Pauleone]

I win!

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

I've come to peace with the design now, don't really have a choice otherwise. I'm fine with Brooklyn Grey and non black rims.

Weight and interior I'm going to need more time to come around on.

When you have to revert to Brooklyn Grey you know the color palette is pretty poor (just joking) not my favorite color.

Honestly I don't hate the design at all, contrary to other I see a modern more muscular F87 in there. It's just a shame that basically the only attraction to it vs an M4 is that its cheaper. But I guess if your ok with the smaller form factor it's a great deal.

[ROBM2C]

@don pauleone in the looks department you definitely do .

Don't get me wrong I would love the new m2 competition In awd for winter . She's just not as pretty as my last girlfriend who I am now going to keep for the long haul for sure .

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

You probably should look at Porsche then to be honest if you want the most balanced suspension setup. I had some lengthy conversations with some very experienced BMW/Porsche instructors at my last HPDE including letting a few take some laps in my OG. None of them were surprised on how the F87 felt (a few it was first time lapping an F87). Twitchy rear end and stiff suspension has been the norm since the e30 days and probably isn't going to change much with added weight.

The biggest takeaway was the car needs more camber in the front period but the suspension setup felt fine for intermediate track use. No chassis BMW uses is ever going to feel like a Porsche no matter how much weight you add.

Totally get your point - but it's all relative.

Even with the GT4 / Spyder, Porsche is trying to hit a specific price point, and so you get the suspension tuning (along with everything else) at that point in the pecking order.

It's no surprise that only the swan song of the ICE GT4 (and eventually Spyder) got the GT3's engine. It still didn't get the same amount of tire width, aero, or suspension sophistication - all because it must remain in it's proper place, below the 911.

People might love the handling characteristics of a 911, but a mid-engine setup is superior - where does IndyCar and F1 put the engines? But Porsche isn't going to allow their "entry level" car, even the GT variants, beat out the bread and butter of the marquee.

The M2 has / will likely continue to suffer the same sort of shortcomings, and that's on purpose. I have a 718 Spyder and the most common mod on the car, even prior to delivery, is addressing the rear toe links / shims...which apparently takes the handling to another level. I am assuming similar options will be available for the M2, for those who want that level of feel and control.

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by spool twice

I'm not too worried about the weight.

I say this because I've driven a G8x at 10/10th at BMW's M-driving school in Spartanburg and the G8x, even though heavier than my M4cs or the M2 Competition (which was also there to drive as a side-by-side), the G8x drives lovely, and in fact the chassis feels better integrated to handle the power, as well as being more stable in feel and better front-end grip/steering response.

I think this is an important point. The G8X handles exceptionally well for its weight. Further, people gave the M2 CS a hard time because it weighed about as much as the M2 C (with steel brakes). However, that was because of the added adaptive suspension. The suspension was truly a game changer and worth every lb. That being said, weight is weight and you're going to feel it. This car will likely drive a lot differently than the previous generation, that could be good and bad.

[ROBM2C]

Hey let's tell the truth ! The seats in the new M2 are nice .

[ROBM2C]

Seriously which is nicer …seriously

[cj0817]

It's not that bad. I think we need to stop being drama queens. Is the previous gen nicer? Perhaps. But you can say the same thing about the M3/4, and now look, good luck getting one. I wish it had more color options. Would love to see Thundernight on it.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by deemo319

Oh damn. They put in boxed fender flares that are more than a passing nod to the E30 M3. Well done BMW.

E30 M3 Henna Red + G87 M2 Toronto Red: see the dedicated thread here.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Yeah CLAR is used for everything from the new 2 series to the 7 series and X7.

It wasn't used for F80/F82 M3 and M4 or F87 M2. It was used for F90 M5.

Think of this car as a 2 door M5.

But all kidding aside, the Supra is on CLAR and it weighs 3400 pounds. So I think the added weight has to do with the cooling for the S58 engine as well.

Yes, I'm thinking of cooling, increased chassis rigidity, bigger dimensions and, of course, 4 seats instead of 2, which requires more safety measures for the rear passengers.
In Europe we only have the 340 hp version, so in terms of performance the gap between the Supra and the M2 is quite big, cannot be competitors.

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by cj0817

It's not that bad. I think we need to stop being drama queens. Is the previous gen nicer? Perhaps. But you can say the same thing about the M3/4, and now look, good luck getting one. I wish it had more color options. Would love to see Thundernight on it.

Agree. I still think it's an attractive car (minus the rear), but in my mind the F87 is a better design. I'm probably biased because I own one lol. BUT if I was in the same spot now as I was in 2016 in terms of the type of car I was looking for I would 100% buy this. It's just not out of this world different enough to warrant an upgrade to me.