[ASAP]

Originally Posted by kyriian

If you can afford it...
Corolla starts at 22k
Model 3 with government handout in the US starts at 35k, a whole 13k difference. I am not even going to discuss depreciation at this point, or the cost of a replacement battery which seems to be getting more common, YOU may not keep your cars long, but a huge swath of people do

I am just saying, 13k is probably a weekend's bar tab for you and many here, but maybe there is a reason why EV take rates have slowed.

Don't get me wrong... this isn't a car for someone looking to drive 200k miles out of a car, nor to keep 10 years, nor anyone that consistently travels distances... nor are any of these cars really for the masses due to price points... however Tesla with the model 3 rwd is probably closest in terms of cost. Nor do I think we should be subsidizing these vehicles at tax payer cost...

But I do think that the tech for someone who can afford it is rather incredible... and especially if they are looking for the ultimate local daily driver.

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

I would buy C63 with 4 cylinder Turbo in an estate version if it used non LiPo batteries. Mercedes -AMG is making the Hybrid correctly. Small displacement turbo engine augmented by electric power. Managed like their current FI power plants. Not like the stupid Hybrids that are EV with ICE back up.

V8 for me any day Nothing can beat the sound of V8.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Don't get me wrong... this isn't a car for someone looking to drive 200k miles out of a car, nor to keep 10 years, nor anyone that consistently travels distances... nor are any of these cars really for the masses due to price points... however Tesla with the model 3 rwd is probably closest in terms of cost. Nor do I think we should be subsidizing these vehicles at tax payer cost...

But I do think that the tech for someone who can afford it is rather incredible... and especially if they are looking for the ultimate local daily driver.

I don’t get the idea that tech = luxury or that people buy tech for the sake of it. It just seems stupid, no offense. Just like the people who upgrade phones every year, I expect that behavior out of children, not “rational” adults.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by eugenebmw

V8 for me any day Nothing can beat the sound of V8.

You didn't get the memo? The day of the V8 is over. What are you an evil planet destroyer?

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

You didn't get the memo? The day of the V8 is over. What are you a evil planet destroyer?

Sad, sad and more sad That AMG V8 sound are so cool. I can hear the car from 5 blocks away. Yes, I don't believe EV can save the world, not even for one second. The sound of the EV when doing reserve is totally evil !!!!!!

[Car-Addicted]

Fire crews put out EV fire on Highway 85
Wed, May 29, 2024
South Metro Fire Rescue crews rushed to put out an EV fire on Highway 85 in Douglas County.





https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/vid...orado-highway/

Just a small EV fire, I'm sure it will buff right out.

[Car-Addicted]

Luxury Porsche EV car worth ฿10 million self-ignites and is destroyed in minutes at a central Bangkok dealership
May 25, 2024
The high-spec luxury Porsche Taycan car appeared to have ignited just outside the dealership. The fire quickly and spectacularly engulfed the car.


Afterwards, it was revealed that the car had previously cost its owner ฿10 million.
An analysis of EV car fire incidents by EV FireSafe published in April 2024 is informative. (intersting data not often published)
Significantly, it showed that 22.5% of EV fires were caused by collisions or impact with road debris. After that, the key problem was defects in the manufacturing process. This accounted for 9.7% of fires.
Interestingly, 5.6% of fires were caused when the cars were previously submerged in water.
Finally, 6.9% of fire incidents were linked to arson or criminal damage.
China last year reported 21,000 fires, growing from 14,000 incidents in 2021.

Drivers in Thailand are turning their backs on the EV hype. Sales in April were down further at 18.4% from March
At the same time, sales of EV cars have floundered since they fell in February 2024. Following a 74% fall that month, EV car sales failed to recover in March and April.

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-ne...ntral-bangkok/

[Humdizzle]

anyone see the new model 3 performance 1/4 mile tests?

basically g80 comp xdrive acceleration. same trap speed too. 11.0 at 123. all for 50k ish.

[Efthreeoh]

Progressive gobblygook,

"Data is not information, information is not knowledge, knowledge is not understanding, and understanding is not wisdom."

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Fire crews put out EV fire on Highway 85
Wed, May 29, 2024
South Metro Fire Rescue crews rushed to put out an EV fire on Highway 85 in Douglas County.





https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/vid...orado-highway/

Just a small EV fire, I'm sure it will buff right out.

I asked my steak to be well done, not burnt to a crisp !

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Luxury Porsche EV car worth ฿10 million self-ignites and is destroyed in minutes at a central Bangkok dealership
May 25, 2024
The high-spec luxury Porsche Taycan car appeared to have ignited just outside the dealership. The fire quickly and spectacularly engulfed the car.


Afterwards, it was revealed that the car had previously cost its owner ฿10 million.
An analysis of EV car fire incidents by EV FireSafe published in April 2024 is informative. (intersting data not often published)
Significantly, it showed that 22.5% of EV fires were caused by collisions or impact with road debris. After that, the key problem was defects in the manufacturing process. This accounted for 9.7% of fires.
Interestingly, 5.6% of fires were caused when the cars were previously submerged in water.
Finally, 6.9% of fire incidents were linked to arson or criminal damage.
China last year reported 21,000 fires, growing from 14,000 incidents in 2021.

Drivers in Thailand are turning their backs on the EV hype. Sales in April were down further at 18.4% from March
At the same time, sales of EV cars have floundered since they fell in February 2024. Following a 74% fall that month, EV car sales failed to recover in March and April.

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-ne...ntral-bangkok/

I have a song for that 10 mil car.

[Schn3ll]

Hybridization isn’t bad, I’ve owned BEV’s (which all sucked, including my Taycan), and PHEV’s but my favorite implementation is using super capacitors ala Lambo Sian. Millions of charge discharge cycles, no worries about degradation, no fires/explosions, no replacements needed. This is what we should get in sports car hybrids, even disappointed with the 992.2 using Lithium batteries.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I don’t get the idea that tech = luxury or that people buy tech for the sake of it. It just seems stupid, no offense. Just like the people who upgrade phones every year, I expect that behavior out of children, not “rational” adults.

I agree... tech isn't really luxury imho either... HOWEVER... most premium luxury sedands are usually first to instill new and upcoming tech... the S class being a perfect example of that... which is why this goes hand in hand. Tesla to me is by no means a luxury car... but in a car like a 5 series... i DO think the EV drivetrain makes it more luxurious... its quieter, there is no NVH and is extremely smooth... i'd have a different opinion, if there were solid ICE (V8) options left... but the only solid ICE motor left in the 5 is the B58 and its incredibly muted... so there is almost no point.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

anyone see the new model 3 performance 1/4 mile tests?

basically g80 comp xdrive acceleration. same trap speed too. 11.0 at 123. all for 50k ish.

Jason Camissa made a video about that... it's hard for a lot of folks to accept... while the Tesla Model 3 Performance isn't really a replacement for an M3X... especially if you like sound and need to go round and round a track, the lines are consistently getting more and more blurred... I had a MUCH different opinion when the M3 was RWD only and far more involving... but it is none of those anymore... its mainly an AWD / automatic car that doesn't have much torque down low and is really big and heavy (it's also not really involving at all and a lot of the emotion has been lost)... so when a car that is as fast, far more torquey and half the price comes into the equation, a lot of people outside of die hards will think long and hard about their options.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Schn3ll

Hybridization isn’t bad,

I agree, I think hybrids are the future but we need to have the development driven by the engineers and not the marketing departments. The current trend of an EV with ICE back up is just stupid. It's all about the integration.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

I agree, I think hybrids are the future but we need to have the development driven by the engineers and not the Politicians. The current trend of an EV with ICE back up is just stupid. It's all about the integration.

Fixed it for you.

Or just listen to Akio Toyoda

[Car-Addicted]

Finally a solution I can agree with:

Beto Unveils Plan To Replace All Cars With Skateboards By 2030


U.S. - Presidential candidate Beto O'Rourke has unveiled a $5 trillion plan to fight climate change. Foremost among the major changes the plan would enact is the replacement of all cars in the United States with skateboards.
O'Rourke got the idea while skating a half-pipe and smoking some weed with some local youths over the weekend.
"Can you imagine just how bad the nation would be with everyone grinding, flipping, tricking, and pop shove-it-ing all around? Totally rad," O'Rourke said to the youths as he passed a joint around. "Yeah, man, that'd be so sick. Bruh. I mean, dude. Bruh. Dude."
The candidate was asked to leave the skate park as it's for high schoolers, sadly. But he still came up with the basic framework for his plan before he crashed on his couch, Flamin' Hot Cheeto residue still stuck to his fingers.
"No one else is willing to take this kind of bold, decisive, totally tubular action against climate change," O'Rourke said in a speech Monday. "The nation will be 100% doper---and cooler---after I pass this plan with an executive order my first day in office, just like the Constitution allows me to."

Babylon Bee

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by kyriian

Fixed it for you.

Or just listen to Akio Toyoda

Unless I am very severely mistaken... Akio Toyoda was asked to step down as being CEO of Toyota for being way too backwards thinking lol...

Toyota missed out ON a million opportunities to be the leader in any EV space by not developing tech in the right direction... they essentially made the hybrid mainstream 20 years and stayed with that tech... while all others BMW included moved miles forward on development. Toyota also stuck to old 4 NA bangers and ancient 6 cylinders that had not been competitive for about 10 years prior vs the modern turbo offerings that everyone by that time was developing... this is why ALL of their current turbo offerings suck and are massively unreliable whereas others charge forward.... toyota thought they could be a major automaker of the future by selling old shit and it massively backfired.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

I agree, I think hybrids are the future but we need to have the development driven by the engineers and not the marketing departments. The current trend of an EV with ICE back up is just stupid. It's all about the integration.

Which hybrid cars are EV with ICE backup?

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Unless I am very severely mistaken... Akio Toyoda was asked to step down as being CEO of Toyota for being way too backwards thinking lol...

Toyota missed out ON a million opportunities to be the leader in any EV space by not developing tech in the right direction... they essentially made the hybrid mainstream 20 years and stayed with that tech... while all others BMW included moved miles forward on development. Toyota also stuck to old 4 NA bangers and ancient 6 cylinders that had not been competitive for about 10 years prior vs the modern turbo offerings that everyone by that time was developing... this is why ALL of their current turbo offerings suck and are massively unreliable whereas others charge forward.... toyota thought they could be a major automaker of the future by selling old shit and it massively backfired.

I mean, they are still selling pre-historic dinosaurs all over the world and I see no indication of them slowing at all, they are still the biggest automaker in the world after all. There is also no comparison between BMW and Toyota, they have very different customer targets and demographics. Perhaps because there is a 95% of public who couldn't give 2 shits about handling or power, but just want wheels that start every morning?

Guess who was the leader in EVs for the main stream that actually had some commercial success before Tesla? Nissan with the first Leaf, and look at where they are now, (Yes, Nissan failed because of a huge multitude of reasons). New, innovative and cutting edge does not equate success.

[crAbb]

[crAbb]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Unless I am very severely mistaken... Akio Toyoda was asked to step down as being CEO of Toyota for being way too backwards thinking lol...

Toyota missed out ON a million opportunities to be the leader in any EV space by not developing tech in the right direction... they essentially made the hybrid mainstream 20 years and stayed with that tech... while all others BMW included moved miles forward on development. Toyota also stuck to old 4 NA bangers and ancient 6 cylinders that had not been competitive for about 10 years prior vs the modern turbo offerings that everyone by that time was developing... this is why ALL of their current turbo offerings suck and are massively unreliable whereas others charge forward.... toyota thought they could be a major automaker of the future by selling old shit and it massively backfired.

Patently the US doesn't get the great Toyotas Europe does.