[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by stefan

Another argument against the automatic. Driving shouldn't be that easy that someone can just press the wrong pedal and potentially kill people.

Not really. It's not like people driving manuals avoid accidents or stupid behavior. Your argument would advance mandatory collision avoidance systems or even autonomous-only driving more than it would advocate going back in time when everyone drove manual transmissions.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Not really. It's not like people driving manuals avoid accidents or stupid behavior. Your argument would advance mandatory collision avoidance systems or even autonomous-only driving more than it would advocate going back in time when everyone drove manual transmissions.

Really I am arguing for more engagement and increased difficulty so that everything is more deliberate. Because even with all those systems, one of them is always bound to fail. The driver is the best system there is but the more you remove skill and deliberation the more unintentional things like this will happen. Yes accidents happen no matter what but.. Catastrophic damage caused by mashing the wrong pedal??

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

That is why I am never moving to Florida. Cases of 80+ Year old drivers mistaking pedals and killing or injuring people very common there...

You would be far more likely to get injured here by a teenager or 20-something year old looking at their phone while driving than by an 80-something year old mistaking a pedal.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by stefan

Really I am arguing for more engagement and increased difficulty so that everything is more deliberate. Because even with all those systems, one of them is always bound to fail. The driver is the best system there is but the more you remove skill and deliberation the more unintentional things like this will happen. Yes accidents happen no matter what but.. Catastrophic damage caused by mashing the wrong pedal??

Increased difficultly will not decrease accidents. People will still be distracted and make mistakes. We are on a path as a society to less control over driving, whether we like it or not. If her car were forced to stop itself before collision the vast majority of the general public would advocate that solution rather than making it more difficult to drive.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Increased difficultly will not decrease accidents. People will still be distracted and make mistakes. We are on a path as a society to less control over driving, whether we like it or not. If her car were forced to stop itself before collision the vast majority of the general public would advocate that solution rather than making it more difficult to drive.

Ok so you're attributing distractions to accidents? If that's the case should we not do something to force people to focus on driving rather than taking the driving task away from them making it easier to text or watch a movie? If only there was a way to occupy all their hands and feet in the act of driving.

Today we might be on a path for driving automation but that could change. I suspect after a few unintended deaths (already one on the books from autonomous driving) that we will take a step back and take a look at our infrastructure, which will need major work to accommodate.

[DreamTime]

Oh lord. Super glad she is okay, but damn... The last thing us female BMW drivers need is bad publicity! Too many stereotypes colliding in one place already

[Deluxx3]

If this is the second something like this has happened there, then clearly the design of the parking garage is pretty bad. There should be a solid barrier or something to prevent this from happening.

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

You would be far more likely to get injured here by a teenager or 20-something year old looking at their phone while driving than by an 80-something year old mistaking a pedal.

I agree with that too and I think cell phones should automatically shut off while in motion. Only way out would be to sign a waiver to accept 100% responsibility in case of an accident. No insurance company would cover you in that case and you would be on your own.
Guaranteed bankruptcy...

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by stefan

Ok so you're attributing distractions to accidents? If that's the case should we not do something to force people to focus on driving rather than taking the driving task away from them making it easier to text or watch a movie? If only there was a way to occupy all their hands and feet in the act of driving.

Today we might be on a path for driving automation but that could change. I suspect after a few unintended deaths (already one on the books from autonomous driving) that we will take a step back and take a look at our infrastructure, which will need major work to accommodate.

Of course I want more focus by drivers and I also want to win Powerball. But we can't pass strong enough laws or enforce laws we have to effectively prevent distracted driving. We can't even get all people to stop driving under the influence. Do you really think looking at phones and human error are limited to drivers of automatic transmissions? Isn't the best solution for drivers to pay attention + have safety nets for when human error occurs? They should not need to be mutually exclusive. The most likely outcome over time will be increased safety measures and eventually the elimination of driving privileges altogether.

IMO, there is absolutely no winning an argument that increased difficulty = increased driver engagement = less accidents for the general public. So I guess we can agree to disagree.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

I agree with that too and I think cell phones should automatically shut off while in motion. Only way out would be to sign a waiver to accept 100% responsibility in case of an accident. No insurance company would cover you in that case and you would be on your own.
Guaranteed bankruptcy...

I can agree with hand held cell phones, but cell phone through Bluetooth in your vehicle is much different. However, not only do people use cell phones while driving, we have people in this forum that are coding their cars so that the DVD works in motion - according to them, they have a right to do that and BMW shouldn't be dictating that.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Blindside_137

A mistake was made

Correct and now she wants someone else to pony-up.

Anybody know what is 18" long and hangs in front of an a-hole?

A Lawyer's Tie !!

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

I can agree with hand held cell phones, but cell phone through Bluetooth in your vehicle is much different. However, not only do people use cell phones while driving, we have people in this forum that are coding their cars so that the DVD works in motion - according to them, they have a right to do that and BMW shouldn't be dictating that.

An accident waiting to happen.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by stefan

Ok so you're attributing distractions to accidents? If that's the case should we not do something to force people to focus on driving rather than taking the driving task away from them making it easier to text or watch a movie? If only there was a way to occupy all their hands and feet in the act of driving.

Today we might be on a path for driving automation but that could change. I suspect after a few unintended deaths (already one on the books from autonomous driving) that we will take a step back and take a look at our infrastructure, which will need major work to accommodate.

Joshua Brown was sleeping at the wheel it wouldn't matter if the car had autonomous driving or if he did not he was not paying attention for quite some time and clearly that's what caused his death not the truck & trailer pulling across his path he had plenty of time to react.

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

I can agree with hand held cell phones, but cell phone through Bluetooth in your vehicle is much different. However, not only do people use cell phones while driving, we have people in this forum that are coding their cars so that the DVD works in motion - according to them, they have a right to do that and BMW shouldn't be dictating that.

Even cell phones through Bluetooth get you distracted. I have caught myself missing exits and having to make U-turns (more than once) from being involved in phone conversations. Should still be used sparingly...
Texting should be banned and made inoperable as in my prior post. Technology exists for that.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

Joshua Brown was sleeping at the wheel it wouldn't matter if the car had autonomous driving or if he did not he was not paying attention for quite some time and clearly that's what caused his death not the truck & trailer pulling across his path he had plenty of time to react.

Guy was watching a movie and fell asleep. Wonder how he was able to be totally hands free for that long? Autonomous tech. Anything else would have started drifting off the road the second he let go of the steering wheel to put his feet up. Much harder to watch a movie and sleep when you are forced to actually drive.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by stefan

Guy was watching a movie and fell asleep. Wonder how he was able to be totally hands free for that long? Autonomous tech. Anything else would have started drifting off the road the second he let go of the steering wheel to put his feet up. Much harder to watch a movie and sleep when you are forced to actually drive.

Your point is valid but it's doesn't completely apply here.


The car gives a clear warning he disregarded it and it is very audible. There were YouTube videos posted by others of that guy sleeping at the wheel. He pushed his luck, and he is no longer around accordingly. RIP Joshua Brown.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

Your point is valid but it's doesn't completely apply here.


The car gives a warning he disregarded it and it very audible. There were YouTube videos posted by others of that guy sleeping at the wheel. He pushed his luck, he is no longer around accordingly. RIP Joshua Brown.

Indeed. I picked an extreme example as well. Still I can't help but feel the safest options are either fully manual for maximum engagement, no help, or a fully developed, sophisticated system with redundancy, driver assistance, and supporting infrastructure.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by stefan

Indeed. I picked an extreme example as well. Still I can't help but feel the safest options are either fully manual for maximum engagement, no help, or a fully developed, sophisticated system with redundancy, driver assistance, and supporting infrastructure.

It's getting better and better Tesla is very close to level four autonomous driving. The collective amount of miles driven at this point is astounding they are clearly the leader at this point in time.

[MalibuBimmer]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

Correct and now she wants someone else to pony-up.

Anybody know what is 18" long and hangs in front of an a-hole?

A Lawyer's Tie !!

Wait till you need one. And then show him or her this post.

Good luck!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

You would be far more likely to get injured here by a teenager or 20-something year old looking at their phone while driving than by an 80-something year old mistaking a pedal.

I see quite a few older folks messing with cell phones while driving. 30-40 year old Soccer moms and contractors in pick-up trucks are probably the worst I've observed...

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

Wait till you need one. And then show him or her this post.

Good luck!

The lawyers that work for me don't wear ties and they're not assholes.

If the shoe fits wear it.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I see quite a few older folks messing with cell phones while driving. 30-40 year old Soccer moms and contractors in pick-up trucks are probably the worst I've observed...

Yeah shouldn't have left them out. Distracted drivers in general are a bigger risk than 80+ year olds hitting the wrong pedal.