[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by nd.point

Tell me what you want to see. I might be volunteering my car for a similar video vs. a manual supra.

Feel free to Inbox me. Would love some feedback to what you'd like to see?

If you conduct your tests on a dry day and find a venue where you can take the G87 to redline above 2nd gear, you’re ahead of the game.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Don't worry about these reviews; I can tell you definitively that the G87 is a fantastic car and the S58 + M3 underpinnings in a car with this wheelbase at this price is something you don't want to miss.

Disclaimer about the 6MT version. I have spent extensive time with both the 6MT and ZF8 auto, both are excellent. The 6MT car feels less lively than the ZF8 during normal driving. The combo of a linear powerband and fewer gears means you're spending more time moving through the weaker part of the torque curve. You simply have to work more and push harder to get to the parts where the S58 shines brightly. This is especially important to note during break-in (assuming you're observing it), since you aren't sampling the car's true talents yet. Once you're out of break-in and can take it to redline, you'll be pleasantly surprised by how vicious the Mr. Hyde side of the car can be. It's an accentuated version of the E92 M3 experience.

Once you've sampled the 6MT after "driving it like you stole it", you'll feel better about and maybe even appreciate the smooth, daily-friendly nature of the car at lower driving intensity. Total security after that since you'll know what you have.

Any less-than-enthusiastic review you've seen of the G87 is of the 6MT car, which exposes the problem with taking the word of people who are forced to develop opinions on tight schedules with sometimes insufficient drive time.

The 6MT car gives you every reason to shift when you're going for it, which is exactly what makes sense for a #SaveTheManuals product. This is not a B58 or N55 where the low-end torque let's you easily be a hooligan around town between 0 and 50mph. If you want that experience, the ZF8 car with its shorter gears and quick and effortless shifting action does a great job of giving you both sides of the spectrum.

On the transmission front, there's no wrong answer with this car. Get whichever you like; there are very real merits to both.

Yeah, from everything i've seen, it sounds like the car has a slightly higher boost threshold than most modern turbocharged engines. 10-15 years ago, this would've been a flaw. 15+ years ago, this would've been expected and normal.

But now? On the cusp of our new electric dawn? I might even call it a 'feature' for the more nostalgia driven among us. Especially when there's the option to all but eliminate this feature/problem by just going with the 8AT. And IMHO, things that can alternatively be labeled as a problem OR as a feature are the kind of things that give a car personality.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I just rewatched the video and there is an awful lot of salt here for no reason... they didn't say anything really negative just said they'd prefer the older one based on looks etc... thats kind of what their conclusion was based on...

I thought the m's exhaust sounded the best and also had the best interior and space from the 3 cars.

The Supra is a 2 seater so I don't think people that are looking for a more practical car would ever choose that. The Nissan Z... honestly I see virtually no reason to choose that car... it looks about 10 years later to the game... it runs a 13 second 1/4 mile, weighs 3500 lbs with 2 seats. The car is ranked 9th in the category in the class by Car and Driver.... they are choosing based on emotion here and that's fine, that's their choice.

i agree.

anything over $50k is going to be a subjective/emotional purchase. nobody NEEDS anything more than a civic or accord. a tesla model 3 performance has more 'real world' performance (rolling acceleration under 100mph) than an m3, pulls a faster lap time than an f8x, more luggage space, burns no fuel or oil, etc.

for anyone that doesn't want subjectivity. You can read the spec sheet, look at dynos, 1/4 mile times, ring times, spring rates, etc.

[Bumpinjeep]

Here's my take on the 3 cars.
Nissan Z - I've had a 350Z since 07 (HR model), I put it on CE28N Time Attacks, D2 coilovers, HKS Hi-Flo exhaust, carbon fiber body kit with hood plus a few other mods. If you go to the mobile site to my350Z.com forums, its the cover car. So I have a pretty extensive history with the Z. Here's the deal, the new Z is far too similar to the car that came out before it, which is far too similar to the car that it replaced, tracing back to 2002 as a 2003 release.
I get that there is some sense of nostalgia in cars, but this isn't that, it's simply that Nissan does not have the money to make a sports car so they literally took a 20+ year old one and revamped some stuff to modernize it. This is the reason why Toyota outsources their sports cars. $50K plus for a 20 year old Nissan is simply out of the question.
Toyota Supra - Toyota got some things right here and some things wrong. The thing they got wrong was releasing the FT1 Concept and trying to put those themes on a Z4 chassis. What they got right was working with one of the top performance car companies on earth to develop and make their cars. An "m-lite" car that competes with the Z, Mustang, Camaro, and somewhat Challenger is interesting.
G87 M2, this car is truly in a different league than the Z and the Supra. It would be like comparing a V8 Mustang to a 911. Sure they have similar ethos, but they really don't compete for the same buyer as the cars are drastically different. Simply sit in them and you'll see.

In conclusion, you sort of can't go wrong with these cars, well except unfortunately for the Z, it's just not up to today's standards. The Supra has its merits I suppose but I certainly can't get past it's exterior and interior. The G87 is literally in a class so far above these two that it is comical.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Here's my take on the 3 cars.
Nissan Z - I've had a 350Z since 07 (HR model), I put it on CE28N Time Attacks, D2 coilovers, HKS Hi-Flo exhaust, carbon fiber body kit with hood plus a few other mods. If you go to the mobile site to my350Z.com forums, its the cover car. So I have a pretty extensive history with the Z. Here's the deal, the new Z is far too similar to the car that came out before it, which is far too similar to the car that it replaced, tracing back to 2002 as a 2003 release.
I get that there is some sense of nostalgia in cars, but this isn't that, it's simply that Nissan does not have the money to make a sports car so they literally took a 20+ year old one and revamped some stuff to modernize it. This is the reason why Toyota outsources their sports cars. $50K plus for a 20 year old Nissan is simply out of the question.
Toyota Supra - Toyota got some things right here and some things wrong. The thing they got wrong was releasing the FT1 Concept and trying to put those themes on a Z4 chassis. What they got right was working with one of the top performance car companies on earth to develop and make their cars. An "m-lite" car that competes with the Z, Mustang, Camaro, and somewhat Challenger is interesting.
G87 M2, this car is truly in a different league than the Z and the Supra. It would be like comparing a V8 Mustang to a 911. Sure they have similar ethos, but they really don't compete for the same buyer as the cars are drastically different. Simply sit in them and you'll see.

In conclusion, you sort of can't go wrong with these cars, well except unfortunately for the Z, it's just not up to today's standards. The Supra has its merits I suppose but I certainly can't get past it's exterior and interior. The G87 is literally in a class so far above these two that it is comical.

I agree with everything except I will say Toyota got the engine wrong... I mean they got the engine right because its a glorious B58 but sadly it's just not a Toyota motor and that loses the mythos of a Supra to me...

Here is a question... are people more irritated by using a BMW I6 or if Toyota did a tiny bit of work and revamped their TT V6 from the Tundra etc? It would not have been an I6 but it would have been their own. I don't know... I would prefer the latter personally.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

i agree.

anything over $50k is going to be a subjective/emotional purchase. nobody NEEDS anything more than a civic or accord. a tesla model 3 performance has more 'real world' performance (rolling acceleration under 100mph) than an m3, pulls a faster lap time than an f8x, more luggage space, burns no fuel or oil, etc.

for anyone that doesn't want subjectivity. You can read the spec sheet, look at dynos, 1/4 mile times, ring times, spring rates, etc.

everyone has an opinion on everything...

my personal opinion is that the F87C is both a terrible track car and terrible street car but again that is my honest opinion... and based on what I am reading the G87 fixes a lot of the things I thought were shortcomings in it... people may not agree with me but again that's my opinion

[AlpineBoost]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I agree with everything except I will say Toyota got the engine wrong... I mean they got the engine right because its a glorious B58 but sadly it's just not a Toyota motor and that loses the mythos of a Supra to me...

Here is a question... are people more irritated by using a BMW I6 or if Toyota did a tiny bit of work and revamped their TT V6 from the Tundra etc? It would not have been an I6 but it would have been their own. I don't know... I would prefer the latter personally.

Same, Toyota TT V6 would have been better to me personally even if the car ended up being worse. Either that or call it anything other than "Supra". Nissan switched from a I6 to a TT V6 for the R35 and people either didn't care or got over it.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Moflow

Yeah, from everything i've seen, it sounds like the car has a slightly higher boost threshold than most modern turbocharged engines. 10-15 years ago, this would've been a flaw. 15+ years ago, this would've been expected and normal.

High boost threshold + manual transmission does make it more challenging to stay in the sweet spot.

The obvious fix would be to shorten the gears, but manufacturers don't want to do that for MPG reasons. Hagerty media has a great video that explains why.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

I wish these gentlemen good luck with their Youtube career.

[Tarmac]

Originally Posted by moodyhank82

As a prospective owner whose G87 is waiting for transport at the factory, I am not happy with these reviews (TH, SG, now Straight Pipes) either. G87 excels in many objective areas but ends up getting rated lower by influencers and I want to challenge them on some of their points and conclusions.

Another reviewer i thought you might want to bash on 😁

TheTopher

[moodyhank82]

Originally Posted by Squidget

High boost threshold + manual transmission does make it more challenging to stay in the sweet spot.

The obvious fix would be to shorten the gears, but manufacturers don't want to do that for MPG reasons. Hagerty media has a great video that explains why.

I wonder if the boost threshold can be lowered via an engine tune or remap or something...

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by moodyhank82

I wonder if the boost threshold can be lowered via an engine tune or remap or something...

Normally, yes. There are tradeoffs (there are always tradeoffs), but boost tuning is very common.

[MmmmmM2]

Originally Posted by ASAP

everyone has an opinion on everything...

my personal opinion is that the F87C is both a terrible track car and terrible street car but again that is my honest opinion... and based on what I am reading the G87 fixes a lot of the things I thought were shortcomings in it... people may not agree with me but again that's my opinion

I wouldn't say it is a terrible street car or track car (but I haven't taken mine to the track).

I've done frequent canyon carving and it is pretty good, but keeps you on your toes for sure.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by MmmmmM2

I wouldn't say it is a terrible street car or track car (but I haven't taken mine to the track).

I've done frequent canyon carving and it is pretty good, but keeps you on your toes for sure.

i think it keeps you toooo much on your toes and feels all over the place ..

plus i did some backroad driving once vs some crappy old corvettes and holy cow is the suspension over rebounded... it felt very very uneasy

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by Tarmac

Another reviewer i thought you might want to bash on 😁

TheTopher

He completely changes his tune when he drives the ZF8 auto version.

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by zero21

I wish these gentlemen good luck with their Youtube career.

Agreed.

This video highlighted (to me anyways) just how good the G87 looks next to the others.

Yuri wanting to take the Z home over the other two speaks volumes...

[AlpineBoost]

Originally Posted by m2ss

Agreed.

This video highlighted (to me anyways) just how good the G87 looks next to the others.

Yuri wanting to take the Z home over the other two speaks volumes...

As does this...

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i think it keeps you toooo much on your toes and feels all over the place ..

By these standards the 1M is the worst car BMW has ever produced.

No wonder people are just giving them away...

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by AlpineBoost

As does this...

There's simply no possible way he isn't being sarcastic.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by m2ss

By these standards the 1M is the worst car BMW has ever produced.

No wonder people are just giving them away...

Objectively... it is the worst M car that I am aware of...

It has 0 good track times for those that care, is a frankenstein with no S motor and was very easy to replicate with a 135i with a few mods... and is an even smaller street car thats insanely twitchy.

It however is very rare because only 640 were brought to the USA, many of which are now crashed so values have been kept very high... is it actually wanted and demanded... highly questionable... i was at a cars and coffee recently with a lot of BMWs and almost no one noticed it lol.

The base M235i lost some feel to it but arguably it was a better car in every way.

[moodyhank82]

Alright just confirmed with the genius on the phone that my G87 is now in transit from the factory to the port so to celebrate and change all this doom and gloom of recent reviews, I am watching this now:

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by m2ss

By these standards the 1M is the worst car BMW has ever produced.

No wonder people are just giving them away...

If there were only 700 M2Cs in the US, they would be going for $100k.