[Reesnat]

Originally Posted by mzimand

I just put 15mm spacers on front and 12mm on rear with stock wheels and there is no rubbing. Also lowered 30mm with H&R VTF.

With stock tire sizes this won’t be an issue. But the wider wheels will need wider tires and that’s where the issue may arise.

[ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by Reesnat

Im going for an OE+ setup without affecting the cars stock geometry too much so I’m concerned that 19x10 with ET12 is a bit too much in the front. 15mm positive scrub + the tyres rubbing on full lock are making me reconsider.

ET15-17 with 19x10 would have been perfect.

Thoughts?

19x10 ET12 was chosen for a few different reasons. It maintains a similar level of inner clearance to the front suspension as the 19x9.5 ET20 (technically the ET12 wheel has 1.6mm more inner clearance than the OE wheel). This helps customers looking to run coilovers or HAS kits either eliminate or reduce the thickness of spacers required to clear their suspension. Even with the OE suspension, a wider tire on the wider wheel will be closer to the suspension with the higher offsets you proposed and potentially rub there, especially with track compounds. This could be solved with spacers on the higher offset wheel but that puts the wheel back in the same place as it is with our 12 with added cost and hardware weight.

The 19x10 ET12 is also sold as a square setup quite often. The lower offset benefits the rear fitment visually in terms of filling the fender and wheelwells. The lower offset also allows us to make a slightly more concave and lighter wheel overall while still clearing the CBBs from the G8X M3/4 which might eventually make their way onto the M2 at some point as well as other larger aftermarket kits.

An increase in scrub radius is common with wider fitments and essentially inevitable with a really wide front fitment on a strut car. At some point you need to shift the entire wheel and tire outwards so it isn't inside the front suspension. Jackie Ding and the PHD guys are running a 19x11 with an effective offset around 10 up front I believe and the car wins events though I'm sure it no longer handles like a factory M2 and has gone far beyond OEM plus. The increase in tire section width and sidewall support largely negate the geometry changes in terms of outright performance.

Inevitably, there are situations where one customer might prefer a different offset, but the 12 has been a great option for us. I suspect many 285/35-19s will fit without the scrubbing but I build the guides/answer questions in a conservative way to prevent surprises. We can’t test every tire on the market with every configuration we sell and the notes reflect that. If a complete replication of OE geometry is what someone is seeking, we have a 19x9.5 ET25 they can run with 5mm spacers, but replicating OE fitments isn’t typically our target.

Hope that makes sense.

Adding this note:

Originally Posted by Reesnat

With stock tire sizes this won’t be an issue. But the wider wheels will need wider tires and that’s where the issue may arise.

You actually don't have to run wider tires on the 19x10 ET12. We've long recommended 275s on a 10" wheel and the wider wheel will benefit the 275 tire compared to the factory wheel from a sidewall performance perspective. The 10s also give you the ability to run the 285s with more sidewall support though and many will opt to do that so you can do either, but going to a wider wheel doesn't mean you automatically need to change the tire size.


-Tom

[Reesnat]

Originally Posted by ApexWheels

19x10 ET12 was chosen for a few different reasons. It maintains a similar level of inner clearance to the front suspension as the 19x9.5 ET20 (technically the ET12 wheel has 1.6mm more inner clearance than the OE wheel). This helps customers looking to run coilovers or HAS kits either eliminate or reduce the thickness of spacers required to clear their suspension. Even with the OE suspension, a wider tire on the wider wheel will be closer to the suspension with the higher offsets you proposed and potentially rub there, especially with track compounds. This could be solved with spacers on the higher offset wheel but that puts the wheel back in the same place as it is with our 12 with added cost and hardware weight.

The 19x10 ET12 is also sold as a square setup quite often. The lower offset benefits the rear fitment visually in terms of filling the fender and wheelwells. The lower offset also allows us to make a slightly more concave and lighter wheel overall while still clearing the CBBs from the G8X M3/4 which might eventually make their way onto the M2 at some point as well as other larger aftermarket kits.

An increase in scrub radius is common with wider fitments and essentially inevitable with a really wide front fitment on a strut car. At some point you need to shift the entire wheel and tire outwards so it isn't inside the front suspension. Jackie Ding and the PHD guys are running a 19x11 with an effective offset around 10 up front I believe and the car wins events though I'm sure it no longer handles like a factory M2 and has gone far beyond OEM plus. The increase in tire section width and sidewall support largely negate the geometry changes in terms of outright performance.

Inevitably, there are situations where one customer might prefer a different offset, but the 12 has been a great option for us. I suspect many 285/35-19s will fit without the scrubbing but I build the guides/answer questions in a conservative way to prevent surprises. We can’t test every tire on the market with every configuration we sell and the notes reflect that. If a complete replication of OE geometry is what someone is seeking, we have a 19x9.5 ET25 they can run with 5mm spacers, but replicating OE fitments isn’t typically our target.

Hope that makes sense.

Adding this note:


You actually don't have to run wider tires on the 19x10 ET12. We've long recommended 275s on a 10" wheel and the wider wheel will benefit the 275 tire compared to the factory wheel from a sidewall performance perspective. The 10s also give you the ability to run the 285s with more sidewall support though and many will opt to do that so you can do either, but going to a wider wheel doesn't mean you automatically need to change the tire size.


-Tom

Thank you for the detailed reply, its great to see a company engage the community actively with in-depth replies!

I can appreciate your point of view to build the offsets with a wide audience and use cases in mind, hence it may not suit everyone perfectly.

My use case is mostly street with track days twice or thrice a quarter (but that's important to me). I'm not looking to modify the car heavily and turn this into a full blown project (at least I hope not at this time!). So I intend to install the MPerformance HAS Kit and drop the height only by the recommended 10mm. For me stance is secondary to performance (but of course it's a nice to have).

So my choices are about how easily I can add to the car's performance and aesthetics while retaining the stock setup, which frankly on this car seems really good and doesn't necessarily need a lot done to it.

Another factor are the tyres - the stock * Marked PS4S are supposed to be fantastic and staying with them would make sense for my use case.

Would going 275/35 on 10J wheels stress the tyre sidewalls much harder on track and potentially wear them out faster? Since we are stretching them out a bit more than stock?

[ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by Reesnat

Thank you for the detailed reply, its great to see a company engage the community actively with in-depth replies!

I can appreciate your point of view to build the offsets with a wide audience and use cases in mind, hence it may not suit everyone perfectly.

My use case is mostly street with track days twice or thrice a quarter (but that's important to me). I'm not looking to modify the car heavily and turn this into a full blown project (at least I hope not at this time!). So I intend to install the MPerformance HAS Kit and drop the height only by the recommended 10mm. For me stance is secondary to performance (but of course it's a nice to have).

So my choices are about how easily I can add to the car's performance and aesthetics while retaining the stock setup, which frankly on this car seems really good and doesn't necessarily need a lot done to it.

Another factor are the tyres - the stock * Marked PS4S are supposed to be fantastic and staying with them would make sense for my use case.

Would going 275/35 on 10J wheels stress the tyre sidewalls much harder on track and potentially wear them out faster? Since we are stretching them out a bit more than stock?

The HAS kit is going to limit your clearance around the front strut so the ET12 offset may end up paying dividends for you anyway.

I don't think the 10" wheels are going to stress the sidewalls in any way that is more significant than the stock 9.5" width. Frankly, we recommend 275s on a 10" wheel more often than any other tire size and within reason the wider wheels generally provide more performance for the same tire size. Tire rack did a good showcase on that phenomenon:

The one unknown is the Michelin engineering for the * marked tires. They know from the outset that the tire will be used on a narrower 9.5" wheel and likely optimize for that width when making the sidewall. I still suspect that our wheel would be faster than the factory wheel, but the delta between the 2 wheel widths is probably smaller with the * marked tires than it would be with another tire model or compound that isn't specifically optimized for the 9.5. This is speculation on my part though, to know for sure you'd have to run back to back testing on track. It would also be hard to separate other variables not related to the tires as our wheels have a pretty significant weight advantage especially compared to the M2 wheels.

-Tom

[Geighty7]

Apex SM-10RS
19x10
19x11
285x30xR19
305x30xR19

I reached out to Apex and told them I do not want spacers and they said even with full steering lockout these would not rub. I plan on running Sport Cup 2's as well. Trying my best to get away without spacers and I think this is the setup.

Note- Will also be running H&R Sport Springs which bring a -1.2F and -.75R drop non adjustable.

Thoughts & input welcomed.

[ZPD]

Expert@ApexWheels I was at the track last weekend and I had no less than 5 people come up to me and say "wow, are those the new Apex wheels?!"
just thought I'd pass it along.

[goldfz8]

18x10.5

325,35,18 et street r

[ZPD]

Originally Posted by goldfz8

18x10.5

325,35,18 et street r

What exhaust is that? I don't see a muffler- is it deafening?

[AZG87]

Originally Posted by ZPD

What exhaust is that? I don't see a muffler- is it deafening?

It's an inline 6 with twins even straight piped it wouldn't be that loud. Tis the nature of the design.

[goldfz8]

Originally Posted by ZPD

What exhaust is that? I don't see a muffler- is it deafening?

it's sounds like every other exhaust with valves open...very quiet compared to what you might expect.

[goldfz8]

Originally Posted by ZPD

What exhaust is that? I don't see a muffler- is it deafening?

Irl race exhaust

[gcmak]

Originally Posted by goldfz8

18x10.5

325,35,18 et street r

That's some meat!
What drivetrain component is gunna give up first?
Looking good overall.

[goldfz8]

Originally Posted by gcmak

That's some meat!
What drivetrain component is gunna give up first?
Looking good overall.

probably nothing...same as g80 I've gone 1.38 60 foot and 0 to 60 mph in 2.2
9.51 1/4 ig: s58aj

[Ravenseal]

Keep these fitments and builds coming. I’d love to be certain of what I’m ordering in the spring, specially since I have the M Perf. HAS.

[mzimand]

What a difference a wheel makes. I cannot tell you all how much better the call handles and feels. It has transformed the feel of the car.
Stock size Star spec PS4 on Apex 5RS
H&R VTF.

[turo]

Square 19x10.5s

[Bumpinjeep]

ApexWheels So...when are you going to start the Black Friday deals so I can order my wheels?

[xxyion]

So once my car arrives I’ll be buying wheels. Looking at a set of the VS-5RS.

Now I see some people are running square. How does the square setup affect the driving characteristics of the car? I do plan on tracking my M2. If instead I were to go staggered, and do 19s, what width would work without rubbing? I’ll be lowered on the M performance spring kit. Any help would be great.

[Expert@ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by xxyion

So once my car arrives I’ll be buying wheels. Looking at a set of the VS-5RS.

Now I see some people are running square. How does the square setup affect the driving characteristics of the car? I do plan on tracking my M2. If instead I were to go staggered, and do 19s, what width would work without rubbing? I’ll be lowered on the M performance spring kit. Any help would be great.

https://apexwheels.com/fitment-guide...-fitment-guide

Cliffnotes on the handling, square will generally reduce the understeer compared to a stock/staggered setup though it's more subtle on these cars. The major benefit of square for anyone tracking would be the ability to rotate wheels and tires between the front and rear axles over the life of the set to evenly wear and extend the life of tire sets.

-Tom

[Expert@ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by turo

Square 19x10.5s

Nice! Is that 275/35-19 PS4S front and rear?

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

ApexWheels So...when are you going to start the Black Friday deals so I can order my wheels?

https://apexwheels.com/blackfriday

[xxyion]

Originally Posted by Expert@ApexWheels

https://apexwheels.com/fitment-guide...-fitment-guide

Cliffnotes on the handling, square will generally reduce the understeer compared to a stock/staggered setup though it's more subtle on these cars. The major benefit of square for anyone tracking would be the ability to rotate wheels and tires between the front and rear axles over the life of the set to evenly wear and extend the life of tire sets.

-Tom

Ok so it seems to do the same as running square on my S2000 does then. Weird how BMW makes this car double staggered. I’ll probably run square then. I’ll check out the fitment guide. Thanks!

[turo]

Originally Posted by Expert@ApexWheels

Nice! Is that 275/35-19 PS4S front and rear?

Front and rear yes, I love square setups . Tires are actually Pilot Sport All-Season 4's (because I already had a set in the garage), but I'll be swapping to square 295/30-19s PS4S's in the spring.