[ga9213]

Originally Posted by premier3is

Hopefully it wasn't abused either.

For me, I don't have that issue. And I can afford my BMWs new wouldn't dream of ever owning a used one.

Lol wow...I can as well, and much more than a 3 series. Quite presumptuous.

[premier3is]

Originally Posted by ga9213

Lol wow...I can as well, and much more than a 3 series. Quite presumptuous.

Clearly lol.

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by premier3is

Amazing you say? Lol...

Car probably has been beat down to the max lol. Plus most ppl don't even take care of their leases like you'd expect, shit I know people when I leased a lexus who would just say fuck it put 87 gas not 91 as recommended. Imagine the other shit they done.

Fuck buying a lease return. Call me an asshole but if you gotta look for a CPO or used "deal" for a BMW, you probably should get yourself a Civic or something instead. No need to show off you drive a "BMW" when you purchased it for like 20k or lower lol.

This! had a coworker who leased an IS200T so I had asked him how much he paid for the brake service since I was getting ready to have mine done. Guy asked me what brake service, that he just look at the reservoir and it's at the full line and all is good.
I didn't even bother informing the clown that the handbook required brake service at 30k miles. Same for oil changes that sob took his car to jiffy lube.

He's not the only one like this, many lessees don't get the recommend services especially with Lexus which doesn't offer free maintenance. They do the bare minimum , some things they do is even criminal, rolling back odometer etc. Buying pre owned is a gamble and no guarantee you are getting what you think you're getting even with complete service record on hand. Without complete service records it's even a bigger risk.


Leasing is good for us who lease this is not an us against them. Life is short, if you can afford to lease new why buy used. Oh let me guess the tired argument about how it's unwise because that money can be invested for a future that's not guaranteed to no man. I lease and will never chastise another for buying pre owned. It's all about choices we chose leasing instead of financing. Hell, I would wager that if it's not a true M car it's not worth financing.

[premier3is]

Originally Posted by EXE46

This! had a coworker who leased an IS200T so I had asked him how much he paid for the brake service since I was getting ready to have mine done. Guy asked me what brake service, that he just look at the reservoir and it's at the full line and all is good.
I didn't even bother informing the clown that the handbook required brake service at 30k miles. Same for oil changes that sob took his car to jiffy lube.

He's not the only one like this, many lessees don't get the recommend services especially with Lexus which doesn't offer free maintenance. They do the bare minimum , some things they do is even criminal, rolling back odometer etc. Buying pre owned is a gamble and no guarantee you are getting what you think you're getting even with complete service record on hand. Workout service records it's even a bigger risk.


Leasing is good for us who lease this is not an us against them. Life is short if you can afford to lease new why buy used. Oh let me guess the tired argument about how it's unwise because that money can be invested for a future that's not guaranteed to no man. Look I lease and will never chastise another for buying pre owned. It's all about choices we chose leasing instead of financing. Hell I would wager that if it's not a true M car it's not worth financing.

The problem is the people who buy preowned cars start running their mouth on these threads making it about finances and "what's wise" and how people who lease are wasting money lol.

We just sit back and enjoy the cars. Sometimes when I see threads like this I feel like instead of babying the leases I get and taking care of them like it's my own (and I truly do) I should just fucking stomp on this shit and abuse the fuck out of it so the next owner who thinks he got a deal will cry in a few years lol.

[rebekahb]

This is my 3rd time leasing and my first BMW lease. The prior 2 times I did high mileage leases and at the end of 3 years was happy I could walk away. I work out of my car each day so even though I took great care they were well used & the streets around here gave them a good beating.

It took me a while to make a decision on the BMW lease. Did I want to buy a car we could use on the weekends & then drive a beater for work? I started driving the beater because I had to turn my lease in and it's not all that bad. Red Rover has its issues (weird electrical annoyances, etc). I finally decided on leasing the X5. I really wasn't sure if I would enjoy the BMW but I am so far. If I continue to have a beater car for work then that may influence me to buy next time as I'm not putting on as many miles.

I get a very nice car allowance for work & the way I look at it is I get to drive a very nice vehicle. If one day in the next 2.5 years that changes, then I can walk away & decide if I love it enough to pay out of my own pocket. I agree with what someone said above. We are not guaranteed tomorrow. While I'm wise with my money, I'm not going to not enjoy life.

[six75LT]

Originally Posted by ga9213

Exactly! How am I supposed to take advantage of someone else taking that initial depreciation hit and get an amazing vehicle for 30k below MSRP if they don't keep leasing?!

all these cars are abused for those 3 years so you're basically bragging about getting sloppy seconds

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by premier3is

The problem is the people who buy preowned cars start running their mouth on these threads making it about finances and "what's wise" and how people who lease are wasting money lol.

We just sit back and enjoy the cars. Sometimes when I see threads like this I feel like instead of babying the leases I get and taking care of them like it's my own (and I truly do) I should just fucking stomp on this shit and abuse the fuck out of it so the next owner who thinks he got a deal will cry in a few years lol.

Funny thing is you’re bragging about leasing a new BMW with most likely a lower monthly payment than he is paying to own and saying he cant afford a BMW. Also are you driving 330i? Vs his M40? I sure know which one I would rather have...

[premier3is]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Funny thing is you’re bragging about leasing a new BMW with most likely a lower monthly payment than he is paying to own and saying he cant afford a BMW. Also are you driving 330i? Vs his M40? I sure know which one I would rather have...

I'd rather have a new car vs a raggedy beat down fucked up lease turn in that God knows what happened in it. But this convo won't go anywhere except back and forth, so I'll step aside and let you pre owned users enjoy your cars while me and the others who like new will lease lol. suit yourselves

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by premier3is

I'd rather have a new car vs a raggedy beat down fucked up lease turn in that God knows what happened in it. But this convo won't go anywhere except back and forth, so I'll step aside and let you pre owned users enjoy your cars while me and the others who like new will lease lol. suit yourselves

My last BMW was a new F82 M4 comp. Not a lease.

[MisterF80M3]

Originally Posted by BimmerDimmer6

Ehh doesn't bother me when I'm saving tens of thousands!

Having a good "in" with your local exotic dealer can be extremely valuable also. They can usually source you low mile grandpa owned cars pretty easily. I've even bought at dealer auctions before! But I'm a sucker for a good deal, so don't listen to me lol.

Have you seen the used F80 market? Here in California, used F80 are flying off the shelves. There is only a handful for sale in the whole SF area and I have seen them sell for over KBB value. KBB private party value on my F80 after 3 years of driving and 25k miles only depreciated 14%.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by premier3is

Let's look at a long term example....

50k 3 series for 500 a month... 3 year lease.. paid 18k and own nothing. Do it again 2 more times and at 9 years you've paid a total of 54k to own nothing. Assuming you don't have to change brakes and tires in any of those leases and with BMW maintenance covered that's all of your expenses and payments all inclusive.

If you bought that first 3 series you leased, you paid 50k for it and its value after 9 years of you owning it is what? Like 7-9k (2010 3 series google search was around 7-9k).

so if you sold, you'll say your better off with buying vs. leasing since you retained 7-9k after 9 years. But factor in maintenance for 9 years and your probably close to 0 (just like the lease).. or you might be plus a couple grand.

Before you all here bitch about the numbers being wrong or some shit, these are just estimates so don't get your panties in a bunch. For me, I'd rather just lease a new car every 3 years and not worry about shit. Saving a couple grand makes no difference to me in like 10 years, and if it does to you you probably shouldn't be driving a BMW.

You haven't even mentioned secondary depreciation immunity. Economy goes to shit? Doesn't matter, your depreciation was locked. Car gets into an accident? No loss of value there. Car has major recalls and dependability issues? Don't matter. Car explodes? Gap insurance. Car is stolen? Lease another one.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

This.

We bought a 3 year old 2013 X3, 35i, loaded to the gills. Was CPO'd so fresh rubber, brakes etc, 37,000KM and exec driven (zero wear on the seats other than the driver seat). Out the door, all taxes and fees, $42K. Total cost of ownership over 3.5 years for depreciation and repairs outside of those we would incur under a lease anyways, was $23K, and this includes the inevitable water pump failure.

So 42 months, 23K, call it $550 month.

When we bought it i had the dealer draw up his best offer on anew X3, slightly lower spec but still loaded, best he could do was $831 a month all costs in. So a scary delta of near 12K in 3.5 years.

We are now driving a brand new Stelvio, fantastic vehicle, happy with it but all in, $841 month. I am prepared to go to war with the wife to buy used next time.

Your dealer was fleecing you. A unless you were looking at a X3M, there is no way it was $831/month. At 56% RV you are looking closer to $450-550/mo for 36 mo= $20k for 3 years.

3 year old X3's are now $25k. MSRP is $50k. Let's say you get 10% off lease or purchase. Purchasing for 3 years is $45k-25k=$20k plus maintenance out of pocket. The lease was $20k with free maintenance. It's a wash. Keep the car for 6 years, and now you can start seeing the advantages of purchasing. Of course, this only applies to good lease deals. If someone doesn't know how to negotiate a lease, they get raped with $831/mo on a $50k SUV and sorry to say, that's their own fault.

Compare your Stelvio. You can find 2 year old ones for $25-35k. We will see how prices are next year when they are 3 years old, but it looks kind of in line with the X3. However, a leased X3 is economy proof since residual is locked. Not so with financing. If the economy takes a dump, so will the value of your Stelvio. If you get into an accident, you now have a ding on your carfax for diminished value. Plus you will be paying for maintenance on a 3 year old Italian car. I dunno, if leasing is a bad idea, so is purchasing an Alfa. Those seem more like pump and dump cars than the BMW's. Alfa had 58% RV at one point on the Stelvio's, which is pretty good, and the lease residual is compared against MSRP, not purchase price, so the heavy discounts and $4k incentives made leasing them even more attractive. Did you compare the Stelvio lease vs purchase?

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Smgs1992

Your coworker shouldve negotiated that money into what the insurance company owes him. Always account for diminished value in the case of an accident.

He did but it took literally months of arguing and inspecting, finding out there was additional frame damage not properly repaired, the car spent 2+ months in the shop and he still wasn’t fully compensated.

I totaled my wife’s Jeep lease, car was paid off 3 days later in full and we were in a new car less than a week later. No arguing over the fair market value of a used car.

Like I said you can argue finances a but some cars are simply cheaper to drive through good leasing practices (plenty of people pay out the ass and then drop $5000 on wheel protection packages because it’s only $100/mo).

I also had a friend who leased a lexus, drove like 100k, rolled the odo back before handing it in and got away with it fine to add to the list of pre-owned horror stories.

Everyone’s situation is different. If you drive 30k a year leasing is obviously not a good option, unless you want two cars.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by Smgs1992

Your coworker shouldve negotiated that money into what the insurance company owes him. Always account for diminished value in the case of an accident.

That's not how it works with insurance companies. Trust me, I used to be an adjuster, and have heard every story in the book when it comes to totaled vehicles and diminished value. The insurance company pays what *they* think is fair. They are the scum of the earth.


Also, to all those talking about gap insurance, you're right, but last I checked it wasn't free.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

He did but it took literally months of arguing and inspecting, finding out there was additional frame damage not properly repaired, the car spent 2+ months in the shop and he still wasn’t fully compensated.

I totaled my wife’s Jeep lease, car was paid off 3 days later in full and we were in a new car less than a week later. No arguing over the fair market value of a used car.

Like I said you can argue finances a but some cars are simply cheaper to drive through good leasing practices (plenty of people pay out the ass and then drop $5000 on wheel protection packages because it’s only $100/mo).

I also had a friend who leased a lexus, drove like 100k, rolled the odo back before handing it in and got away with it fine to add to the list of pre-owned horror stories.

Everyone’s situation is different. If you drive 30k a year leasing is obviously not a good option, unless you want two cars.

Lol I see you are from NY. Those last two paragraphs sound like a NY “story” lol.

What model of Lexus? How did he do it?

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

That's not how it works with insurance companies. Trust me, I used to be an adjuster, and have heard every story in the book when it comes to totaled vehicles and diminished value. The insurance company pays what *they* think is fair.


Also, to all those talking about gap insurance, you're right, but last I checked it wasn't free.

Gap insurance is “included” in all BMW leases(And owners choice). I think they quoted $500 for it on a finance but I didnt need it.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Lol I see you are from NY. Those last two paragraphs sound like a NY “story” lol.

What model of Lexus? How did he do it?

I don't really believe the rolled back odometer story.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by jmg

Your dealer was fleecing you. A unless you were looking at a X3M, there is no way it was $831/month. At 56% RV you are looking closer to $450-550/mo for 36 mo= $20k for 3 years.

3 year old X3's are now $25k. MSRP is $50k. Let's say you get 10% off lease or purchase. Purchasing for 3 years is $45k-25k=$20k plus maintenance out of pocket. The lease was $20k with free maintenance. It's a wash. Keep the car for 6 years, and now you can start seeing the advantages of purchasing. Of course, this only applies to good lease deals. If someone doesn't know how to negotiate a lease, they get raped with $831/mo on a $50k SUV and sorry to say, that's their own fault.

Compare your Stelvio. You can find 2 year old ones for $25-35k. We will see how prices are next year when they are 3 years old, but it looks kind of in line with the X3. However, a leased X3 is economy proof since residual is locked. Not so with financing. If the economy takes a dump, so will the value of your Stelvio. If you get into an accident, you now have a ding on your carfax for diminished value. Plus you will be paying for maintenance on a 3 year old Italian car. I dunno, if leasing is a bad idea, so is purchasing an Alfa. Those seem more like pump and dump cars than the BMW's. Alfa had 58% RV at one point on the Stelvio's, which is pretty good, and the lease residual is compared against MSRP, not purchase price, so the heavy discounts and $4k incentives made leasing them even more attractive. Did you compare the Stelvio lease vs purchase?

Canada, I live in Canada. And I talk all in, all fees, charges and taxes. The numbers are what they are, I have zero interest in making shit up, trust me, i'd prefer to lease as it's WAY easier for me and I don't have to deal with the wife but a 2 or 3 year old CPO is far, far cheaper to own.

EDIT: I just went to BMW Canada and priced out the 3T engined X3 with just the 2nd lowest convenience package and monthly lease payment is over $1K. Go try it.

And like all cars, prices vary greatly with options, both the X3 and Stelvio are heavily optioned.

A well specced SUV here is going to run you 10K a year in today's money for the rest of your life, that's a quarter million dollars in 25 years. It makes no sense.

[ga9213]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Funny thing is you’re bragging about leasing a new BMW with most likely a lower monthly payment than he is paying to own and saying he cant afford a BMW. Also are you driving 330i? Vs his M40? I sure know which one I would rather have...

I'm not living paycheck to paycheck and can afford to pay cash for my cars so I'm not worried about how much I can "afford" on a lease payment every month.

Not that doing so is a bad thing...but it's certainly humorous he would be making such presumptions about what I could afford and be bragging about being able to afford a BMW by making monthly payments on one...that you don't even get to keep afterwards.

[happyjack]

Originally Posted by premier3is

Let's look at a long term example....

50k 3 series for 500 a month... 3 year lease.. paid 18k and own nothing. Do it again 2 more times and at 9 years you've paid a total of 54k to own nothing. Assuming you don't have to change brakes and tires in any of those leases and with BMW maintenance covered that's all of your expenses and payments all inclusive.

If you bought that first 3 series you leased, you paid 50k for it and its value after 9 years of you owning it is what? Like 7-9k (2010 3 series google search was around 7-9k).

so if you sold, you'll say your better off with buying vs. leasing since you retained 7-9k after 9 years. But factor in maintenance for 9 years and your probably close to 0 (just like the lease).. or you might be plus a couple grand.

Before you all here bitch about the numbers being wrong or some shit, these are just estimates so don't get your panties in a bunch. For me, I'd rather just lease a new car every 3 years and not worry about shit. Saving a couple grand makes no difference to me in like 10 years, and if it does to you you probably shouldn't be driving a BMW.

this is actually a solid argument for owning. in the purchase scenario -- you.still.have.the.car! and assuming the car is well-maintained -- you have a hand-me-down car for your kids. both of my kids inherited HMD 3-series that they will drive through college.

[David70]

Originally Posted by jmg

You haven't even mentioned secondary depreciation immunity. Economy goes to shit? Doesn't matter, your depreciation was locked. Car gets into an accident? No loss of value there. Car has major recalls and dependability issues? Don't matter. Car explodes? Gap insurance. Car is stolen? Lease another one.

I agree, leasing removes many of the risks but then adds additional ones. If you are talking leasing vs. financing a new car -- Depreciation immunity - kind of, both parties agree to an expected value at the end, if the purchased car isn't happy with the value at the end of the lease they can also decide to hold onto the car. Recalls and dependability? - both in the same boat for first 3 years, if the car is constantly in the shop you will both deal with it. Out of warranty repairs, I'll take the possibility of a future expensive repair over the guaranteed depreciation hit that comes with the next lease.

Car explodes or is stolen? - not seeing this as a major difference, both have insurance. Maybe if stolen or blows up right after you get it and you didn't have gap insurance you would be out. I would never buy gap insurance unless required. A tiny chance I could lose $5k?, and this number drops each month I have the car..

The person on the forever lease removes the risks buy paying a premium to not deal with them. Added risks include this original post. If he had purchased, all options available would be available without reading paperwork or calling anyone. If he decided he wanted to get rid of the car now or keep it longer, he can do it. If he is allowed 12k miles but decides to drive 15k, or 7k it is up to him. Do you get money back on the lease when you go well under mileage limit (my driving went from 15k a year to 4k about 2 years ago)? When lease is soon to run out he has to make a decision on what happens next. Turn in a BMW lease and take out a Toyota lease, probably need to get the Toyota lease early. Returning the lease and having charges? Nothing I have ever had to worry about. When I decide I want a new car I go get one, what I have done to keep it in above or below average condition is all on me.

[BimmerDimmer6]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

I don't really believe the rolled back odometer story.

You don't get out much, huh?