[Tejas1836]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

BMWPlay™ by Apple

Originally Posted by Maxx Power

Wasn't that this one..?

That is CarPlay 2023, more integrated with the vehicle. BMW should at least go with this across all platforms, like was stated above, iOS 16 is the same on every phone, at least as far as the UI

[TheMaxXHD]

I brought this up before in the other i4 forum, but while it is frustrating, this is not exactly unheard of. In fact, it’s quite common in the tech space. It’s just that now that cars are becoming more like computers, it is also inherenting some of the issues of the tech industry.

Server CPU architectures often lag a generation behind the latest and greatest consumer counterparts. Products being launched that are better than what was just launched only a few short months prior. Incoherent product stack and development cycles that criss cross and piss everyone off for no reason other than for profit (apple) or because of incompetence of the company (many others like Intel)

The very expensive iPad Pro from 2020 was not going to get the more professionally driven stage manager initially because it didn’t have the M1 chip, meanwhile the cheaper iPad Air launched only two years later with the M1, was going to get it. After the backlash was so severe by apple standards, they “made it work” with the 2020 iPad Pro A12Z, but not with the iPad Pro 2018 A12X, which it should be able to run as well.

This is not new, it is just new for the car world.
As someone from the tech world, welcome to what we deal with.

The saying goes for us, the moment you build your computer, it becomes outdated by something else, so just build and enjoy, and don’t try to time new product launches. Now, it’s applicable to cars.

[kgelfen360]

My big issue with all this is that there is complete lack of proper software updates (I know they exist but there is a lot of issues with actually getting an update) for previous gen models. They just move on to new iterations but they leave behind customers who own the product. Maybe that will change with idrive 9 and android platform will be more conducive to updates.

[TheMaxXHD]

Originally Posted by kgelfen360

My big issue with all this is that there is complete lack of proper software updates (I know they exist but there is a lot of issues with actually getting an update) for previous gen models. They just move on to new iterations but they leave behind customers who own the product. Maybe that will change with idrive 9 and android platform will be more conducive to updates.

You are mistaken if you think that is how that works. In the regular tech world with android devices, that is not how that works.

Anyone that has used an android device can tell you that it’s a catch 22 whether you even get updates beyond an major update or two. It is on the manufacturers of the phones to update their products to the latest versions. Some manufacturers support their devices for only like 1 or 2 years worth of android updates.

Apple is ironically the best with device support, often giving 5+ years in some cases of updates. The flipside is they are also the worst at walling latest features to new devices, even if older ones are capable of having the feature.

[Tejas1836]

If Android phones are any example, the BMW platform, if indeed it is Android- a Google product, will be more susceptible to malware, spyware and nefarious hacking.

[TheMaxXHD]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

If Android phones are any example, the BMW platform, if indeed it is Android- a Google product, will be more susceptible to malware, spyware and nefarious hacking.

Oh yea, without a doubt. I would probably prefer they integrate Apple’s new CarPlay solution than google’s competing solution. Atleast with apple they won’t screw around with security and data privacy.

The flip side is apple’s walled garden and shady business practices there too. It’s a catch 22, but imo, I’d rather apple’s os than google’s controlling core functions of my car.

Obviously as a tech nerd, I’d still prefer BMWs current Linux solution among all else.

[Tejas1836]

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

You are mistaken if you think that is how that works. In the regular tech world with android devices, that is not how that works.

Anyone that has used an android device can tell you that it’s a catch 22 whether you even get updates beyond an major update or two. It is on the manufacturers of the phones to update their products to the latest versions. Some manufacturers support their devices for only like 1 or 2 years worth of android updates.

Apple is ironically the best with device support, often giving 5+ years in some cases of updates. The flipside is they are also the worst at walling latest features to new devices, even if older ones are capable of having the feature.

That generally boils down to processing power and battery energy requirements, ie runtime. Older devices may be able to utilize newer features but with poor performance and degradation of runtime

[Rastayang]

So my 2023 vehicle with iDrive8 is already outdated? I guess at this point it is just going to be normal.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

I brought this up before in the other i4 forum, but while it is frustrating, this is not exactly unheard of. In fact, it’s quite common in the tech space. It’s just that now that cars are becoming more like computers, it is also inherenting some of the issues of the tech industry.

Server CPU architectures often lag a generation behind the latest and greatest consumer counterparts. Products being launched that are better than what was just launched only a few short months prior. Incoherent product stack and development cycles that criss cross and piss everyone off for no reason other than for profit (apple) or because of incompetence of the company (many others like Intel)

The very expensive iPad Pro from 2020 was not going to get the more professionally driven stage manager initially because it didn’t have the M1 chip, meanwhile the cheaper iPad Air launched only two years later with the M1, was going to get it. After the backlash was so severe by apple standards, they “made it work” with the 2020 iPad Pro A12Z, but not with the iPad Pro 2018 A12X, which it should be able to run as well.

This is not new, it is just new for the car world.
As someone from the tech world, welcome to what we deal with.

The saying goes for us, the moment you build your computer, it becomes outdated by something else, so just build and enjoy, and don’t try to time new product launches. Now, it’s applicable to cars.

BMW could make this all go away by marketing similar to what we do in tech.

Advertising hardware features.

Advertising software features.

Separating the two will help them to help slow what is causing customers to lose confidence in them in this area.

For instance, what “iDrive 7” features does the LCI G30 lack compared to the G05 X5? BMW has this list in their “Service Pack” details they don’t share, but it would help consumers compare them in an easier manner and to help them align their expectations better.

It also frees up BMW to market iDrive as an infotainment UI that could change independently of the car’s platform. Even potentially via a software update.

My problem is you have to download their “Service Availability Matrix” to get some vague idea of the features any car supports and it is often very out of date.

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

You are mistaken if you think that is how that works. In the regular tech world with android devices, that is not how that works.

Anyone that has used an android device can tell you that it’s a catch 22 whether you even get updates beyond an major update or two. It is on the manufacturers of the phones to update their products to the latest versions. Some manufacturers support their devices for only like 1 or 2 years worth of android updates.

Apple is ironically the best with device support, often giving 5+ years in some cases of updates. The flipside is they are also the worst at walling latest features to new devices, even if older ones are capable of having the feature.

The challenge of monolithic kernels. A reality for Linux and Android alike since they share a kernel. This leads to drivers needing to be aligned with the Kernel so upgrades to newer versions usually require new drivers patched into the Kernel.

I believe Apple has a hybrid kernel like Windows NT does which allows them to not have to build drivers into the Kernel and makes it easier to support multiple versions, but I could be off.

I agree though. BMW will likely not support Android Auto versions of iDrive anymore than they do current ones. As soon as a new one drops they will forget about the last one.

[Tejas1836]

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

Oh yea, without a doubt. I would probably prefer they integrate Apple’s new CarPlay solution than google’s competing solution. Atleast with apple they won’t screw around with security and data privacy.

The flip side is apple’s walled garden and shady business practices there too. It’s a catch 22, but imo, I’d rather apple’s os than google’s controlling core functions of my car.

Obviously as a tech nerd, I’d still prefer BMWs current Linux solution among all else.

I agree, if BMW would get their distro's straightened out and unified across platforms like iOS.

[TheMaxXHD]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

That generally boils down to processing power and battery energy requirements, ie runtime. Older devices may be able to utilize newer features but with poor performance and degradation of runtime

Sometimes, sometimes not. It really depends on the feature. Like I said. Stage manager on the 2020 iPad Pro was originally not going to be available. Then they made it available. The A12Z is plenty capable of doing it with ease and battery life is fine (heck the A12Z ran the OG Mac OS arm dev box for apple)

[Tejas1836]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

BMW could make this all go away by marketing similar to what we do in tech.

Advertising hardware features.

Advertising software features.

Separating the two will help them to help slow what is causing customers to lose confidence in them in this area.

For instance, what “iDrive 7” features does the LCI G30 lack compared to the G05 X5? BMW has this list in their “Service Pack” details they don’t share, but it would help consumers compare them in an easier manner and to help them align their expectations better.

It also frees up BMW to market iDrive as an infotainment UI that could change independently of the car’s platform. Even potentially via a software update.

My problem is you have to download their “Service Availability Matrix” to get some vague idea of the features any car supports and it is often very out of date.



The challenge of monolithic kernels. A reality for Linux and Android alike since they share a kernel. This leads to drivers needing to be aligned with the Kernel so upgrades to newer versions usually require new drivers patched into the Kernel.

I believe Apple has a hybrid kernel like Windows NT does which allows them to not have to build drivers into the Kernel and makes it easier to support multiple versions, but I could be off.

I agree though. BMW will likely not support Android Auto versions of iDrive anymore than they do current ones. As soon as a new one drops they will forget about the last one.

The Apple kernel is XNU. Complicated for me- a hybrid Mach and BSD, a monolithic kernel

[B///MWGuy]

I didn't like how IDrive 8 had similar UX to IDrive 6 (left to right main menu).
The 9th version look more similar to 7 (more tile based)... I hope this is true.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

The Apple kernel is XNU. Complicated for me- a hybrid Mach and BSD, a monolithic kernel

OSX isn’t direct BSD, but a fork via Darwin which is a hybrid and XNU is also a hybrid as a result.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)

But I won’t go more tangential as we’ll bore the rest

[TheMaxXHD]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

OSX isn’t direct BSD, but a fork via Darwin which is a hybrid and XNU is also a hybrid as a result.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)

But I won’t go more tangential as we’ll bore the rest

iOS is based on BSD and that was what I assume was the assumption being made.

I don’t know what apple’s newest more integrated CarPlay will be, since CarPlay v1 was just an extension of the phone, and thus iOS. They could go based on a macOS route or an iOS route. I imagine it would be an iOS based route but who knows.

Edit: so is macOS.

But it doesn’t really matter since both macOS and iOS have quite a bit of customization to them and are farther away from the Linux kernel compared to android. And is even probably got some customization compared to Darwin itself.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

Mac OS your right. iOS is based on BSD and that was what I assume was the assumption being made.

I don’t know what apple’s newest more integrated CarPlay will be, since CarPlay v1 was just an extension of the phone, and thus iOS. They could go based on a macOS route or an iOS route. I imagine it would be an iOS based route but who knows.

All of Apple’s OSes are based on Darwin XNU which is a fork of BSD. Nothing is based on BSD proper.

[schernov]

Don't forget Bmw also makes Supra which has ID6.

So they will have to support ID 6,7,8,8.5 and 9 on new car sales under warranty for at least 4 more years.
and all of this against different hardware in cars. So all service departments will be bogged down IStep upgrades all day long. Now you can't even upgrade individual modules have to upgrade all of them.

[RCtennis3811]

It’ll be interesting to see what they say shortly. The BMW CES keynote is live in 20 min.

[Tejas1836]

Is Tesla 10 on all their vehicles now?

[xmanpro]

Looks super awesome.

This is why I can’t hang with a 3+ year old BMW in my lineup. The fomo for new tech is too much to handle and riding in something older reminds me of an iphone -10 or Nokia 3210 or some old ass shit.

Full analog models 2003 or earlier are super lit, anything after that is kinda like having a peice of shit mobile phone (iDrive) looking at me trying to help me out the whole entire drive - not awesome imho.

[MPR]

Couldn't care less about id 8, 9, 10, 11. Very happy with id7, it serves its purpose perfectly while being nicely integrated into the dash.

[RCtennis3811]

Since we have iDrive 6, 7, and 8 in our family, I still have to agree that 7 is the gold standard. Quick to render maps, almost no lag, and more functionality than 8 in my M340i - and I have 11/2022 software on my new car!