[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

It's a fact.

In the early 1990s, Porsche had one car for sale in the US, the 911. The 924/944/968 were gone. Sales in the US were under 15k compared to 50k back in the mid-late 1980s. Porsche was on the verge of bankruptcy. They saw the success of the Miata and decided to design an affordable mid-engine car that went back to their roots, the Spyder. They developed Boxster concept in 1993 and people loved it. They hired ex-Toyota personnel to help them make their manufacturing process more efficient. The Boxster came to market in 1996 as a 1997 model. It was a huge success and out sold the 911 year after year and their improved production efficiency made them way more profitable.

The Cayenne didn't save them, it just made them even more profitable because they tapped into the non-enthusaist and female market (a vast majority of Cayenne's are owned by women, something like 70/30) and the company also learned how to badge re-engineer a VW product.

It helped them limp along until 5 years later when the Cayenne released and the rest is history. It did not save them. Without the Cayenne and Macan, Porsche would never have survived on the 911 and Boxster alone.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

It helped them limp along until 5 years later when the Cayenne released and the rest is history. It did not save them. Without the Cayenne and Macan, Porsche would never have survived on the 911 and Boxster alone.

The Panamera (the concept first introduced in the late 1980s as the Porsche 989) and the Taycan haven't hurt either But yeah, the Cayenne has outsold all Porsches models. Does high sales volume make for a great and exciting vehicle though? I'm looking at you Ford Taurus, Toyota Camry, Ford F150, etc.

I get it, I'm obviously in the minority here. It's not going to stop me from laughing and shaking my head "why" when I'm at a stoplight next to a soccer mom in her Cayenne/Macan, a bro in his X6M, or some other German poser "SUV".

[Froz3n_M]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The Cayenne didn't save Porsche from bankruptcy, the first gen Boxster did that. With the improved sales and cash inflow, Porsche decided it needed to break into the lucrative SUV market thus Porsche taking the existing VW Touareg platform and glamming it up into a "Porsche".

Ok, I will just site some sources which have more legitimacy than just our opinion....

https://www.hotcars.com/how-cayenne-...om-bankruptcy/

https://carbuzz.com/news/if-you-like...orsche-cayenne

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-ne...t-exist-today/

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/porsche...d-the-company/

Theres more, but I am tired of googling for you.

[Hit_Apex]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Not sure how anyone can hate on this car. Porsche makes amazing sports cars and also one of the fastest SUVs on the planet. What exactly is the issue?

Like most fast-back (coupe) style SUVs it is ugly, eggy like a model X (x4, x6 also apply).

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Froz3n_M

Ok, I will just site some sources which have more legitimacy than just our opinion....

https://www.hotcars.com/how-cayenne-...om-bankruptcy/

https://carbuzz.com/news/if-you-like...orsche-cayenne

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-ne...t-exist-today/

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/porsche...d-the-company/

Theres more, but I am tired of googling for you.

The Boxster happened way earlier and the Porsche was in deep financial trouble over a decade before the Cayenne. Boxster forced Porsche to improve it's manufacturing process dramatically. Facts are facts. The Cayenne and Macan are just very well executed badge/platform sharing re-engineering efforts with it's parent company VW/Audi.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-saved-porsche

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...f-the-boxster/

https://www.hagerty.com/media/car-pr...saved-porsche/

https://www.goodwood.com/grr/road/ne...el-its-friday/

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/top...heir-companies

https://www.hotcars.com/cars-saved-m...rs-bankruptcy/

[Froz3n_M]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The Boxster happened way earlier and the Porsche was in deep financial trouble a decade before the Cayenne. Facts are facts.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-saved-porsche

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...f-the-boxster/

https://www.hagerty.com/media/car-pr...saved-porsche/

https://www.goodwood.com/grr/road/ne...el-its-friday/

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/top...heir-companies

https://www.hotcars.com/cars-saved-m...rs-bankruptcy/

and yet the cayenne and Macan are the top selling model by far... Point is, no one is hating on Boxter or any other models, but there seems to be a hate for the "cayenne" although its ONE of the vehicles touted to have saved Porsche from many of its impending dooms. So, no matter your opinion, money talks and BS walks. Scream all you want and hate it all you want, the people/public spoke and don't agree with you. At least not the majority =) ... Good day

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Froz3n_M

and yet the cayenne and Macan are the top selling model by far... Point is, no one is hating on Boxter or any other models, but there seems to be a hate for the "cayenne" although its ONE of the vehicles touted to have saved Porsche from many of its impending dooms. So, no matter your opinion, money talks and BS walks. Scream all you want and hate it all you want, the people/public spoke and don't agree with you. At least not the majority =) ... Good day

Yep, the non-enthusiast and women have spoken for the SUV market. That is for sure!

[Froz3n_M]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Yep, the non-enthusiast and women have spoken for the SUV market. That is for sure!

My APR stage 1 GTS is so boring, I agree... Man, what a mistake I made purchasing a car that can do so much and yet be sedan like, a fast one at that!

I will cry myself to sleep today, in my GTS 18 way adjustable seats with massage.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Yep, the non-enthusiast and women have spoken for the SUV market. That is for sure!

Non-enthusiasts support the entire automotive market which allows enthusiasts to still buy some exciting cars. Not sure why that makes you mad, personally it makes me happy.

[Cos270]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Non-enthusiasts support the entire automotive market which allows enthusiasts to still buy some exciting cars. Not sure why that makes you mad, personally it makes me happy.

It makes me happy up until the point the OEMs decide it is not worth their time or money to make affordable exciting cars for enthusiasts. We crossed that threshold many years ago, unfortunately. I honestly don't see myself ever buying a new car because of that. The only options for a fun enthusiast car (in the US) under 40k are the Miata and the GR86, neither of which really appeal to me.

[x622]

Originally Posted by Froz3n_M

My APR stage 1 GTS is so boring, I agree... Man, what a mistake I made purchasing a car that can do so much and yet be sedan like, a fast one at that!

I will cry myself to sleep today, in my GTS 18 way adjustable seats with massage.

Damn what a piece of shit. You probably HATE that clearance going over shitty roads and bumps.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Non-enthusiasts support the entire automotive market which allows enthusiasts to still buy some exciting cars. Not sure why that makes you mad, personally it makes me happy.

That is a good point. I'm still not happy about the direction of Porsche, BMW, etc. though. It is what is. I'm old school.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by x622

Damn what a piece of shit. You probably HATE that clearance going over shitty roads and bumps.

While on massive rims and low profile tires no less

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by Cos270

It makes me happy up until the point the OEMs decide it is not worth their time or money to make affordable exciting cars for enthusiasts. We crossed that threshold many years ago, unfortunately. I honestly don't see myself ever buying a new car because of that. The only options for a fun enthusiast car (in the US) under 40k are the Miata and the GR86, neither of which really appeal to me.

Unfortunately affordable anything these days is a thing of the past.

[Froz3n_M]

Originally Posted by x622

Damn what a piece of shit. You probably HATE that clearance going over shitty roads and bumps.

Tell me about it, takes about 10 seconds for the air suspension to bring it up to terrain/off-road height. The wait I tell you!

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by Cos270

It makes me happy up until the point the OEMs decide it is not worth their time or money to make affordable exciting cars for enthusiasts. We crossed that threshold many years ago, unfortunately. I honestly don't see myself ever buying a new car because of that. The only options for a fun enthusiast car (in the US) under 40k are the Miata and the GR86, neither of which really appeal to me.

Exactly. Most of these damn cars are not affordable by any "normal" folks. Maybe the Elantra N, but even that is over $30k & still FWD...

[x622]

Originally Posted by Froz3n_M

Tell me about it, takes about 10 seconds for the air suspension to bring it up to terrain/off-road height. The wait I tell you!

Garbage. Pure garbage. You should of just bought a unimog.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by Cos270

It makes me happy up until the point the OEMs decide it is not worth their time or money to make affordable exciting cars for enthusiasts. We crossed that threshold many years ago, unfortunately. I honestly don't see myself ever buying a new car because of that. The only options for a fun enthusiast car (in the US) under 40k are the Miata and the GR86, neither of which really appeal to me.

What car in the past fits your vision of exciting and affordable?

[dgoldenz]

$40k barely gets you a Camry these days. You damn sure ain't getting anything "fun" under $40k new anymore.

[Cos270]

Originally Posted by chassis

What car in the past fits your vision of exciting and affordable?

Veloster N, Fiesta and Focus ST, Saabs (probably knocking on the door of $40k with inflation). Jason Cammisa had a good bit about it in one of his Hagerty videos recently. The other thing working against everyone is just having extra money for fun purchases. Wages have stagnated so much that people can't afford to compromise and have multiple cars for multiple purposes.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Cos270

Veloster N, Fiesta and Focus ST, Saabs (probably knocking on the door of $40k with inflation). Jason Cammisa had a good bit about it in one of his Hagerty videos recently. The other thing working against everyone is just having extra money for fun purchases. Wages have stagnated so much that people can't afford to compromise and have multiple cars for multiple purposes.

Growing up as a teen and young adult in the late 1980s and 1990s in Kansas City, I'd have to say that I knew no one with parents that had extra cars for fun or other purposes. Seeing a BMW, Benz, much less a Porsche was a rarity and I lived in one of the wealthiest counties in Kansas and top 100 in the country.

I still live in the same county and expensive German cars are everywhere now. Homes are massively bigger. The overall stuff people have, the expensive hobbies, the extra vehicles, boats, etc are way more common now. People eat out way more, teens don't work so mom and dad buy them everything until they're out of the house, homes are full of electronics that replaced every few years, people pay huge sums for internet, TV apps, phones, etc. So while people may be more cash strapped now, it's largely their own doing, IMO.

A Camry may cost $35-40k now, but when considered for inflation, the price is consistent with they sold for in the early 1990s once inflation was accounted for. My dad paid $12700 for a new 1990 CRX Si. That car would cost nearly $29k now and it was bare bones.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by Cos270

Veloster N, Fiesta and Focus ST, Saabs (probably knocking on the door of $40k with inflation). Jason Cammisa had a good bit about it in one of his Hagerty videos recently. The other thing working against everyone is just having extra money for fun purchases. Wages have stagnated so much that people can't afford to compromise and have multiple cars for multiple purposes.

Does the post above conflict with post #82?