[Covfefe]

Originally Posted by Ctothej

I laughed.

You can laugh all you want. That reflects on you, not my comment.

<2.5 seconds isn't impressive at all when the old car was on Pilot Super Sports which are a generation behind and an aggressiveness level down from the Cup 2, and the old car was 6mt.

We know the 6MT CS on Cup 2 tires did it in 1:10.3. We know the 6MT Competition on PSS did it in 1:13.5. Seems very likely that the F87C gets very close to 1:11.2 with Cup 2 tires and a DCT.

[E63M6_G42M240i]

Originally Posted by ourlee

As a VAG guy, I’d def buy a rs3 over the M2 if it came here in hatch. But it’s time for a change, I look forward to moving to M.

I’m a VAG guy too, just not the Volkswagen Audi Group (except Porsche… Lambo lol).

[E63M6_G42M240i]

Originally Posted by moodyhank82

Did they weigh the M2 with Thomas in it? No way it is 3,968 pounds with the carbon seats and roof as shown before the drag race.

Yeah it’s under 3900 for sure kitted like that even with the ZF

[TheMaxXHD]

It’s always hilarious to me seeing people fight on the internet over a video of a car that most people cannot afford.

I don’t see these videos as “reviews”. Rather they are “impressions” or entertaining face offs. It’s hard to review cars when there is a lot of subjectivity to them. Maybe a good first gauge as to whether the car may interest you or not, but nothing more.

Whether one likes or hates the car, the only way you are going to find out is to drive it yourself. Not through an internet video, not through a random person on the internet saying it’s great or terrible. Just you behind the wheel, plain and simple.

The only thing worth on the internet finding out about is issues other owners are having that are actual problems (ie mechanical).

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Covfefe

You can laugh all you want. That reflects on you, not my comment.

<2.5 seconds isn't impressive at all when the old car was on Pilot Super Sports which are a generation behind and an aggressiveness level down from the Cup 2, and the old car was 6mt.

We know the 6MT CS on Cup 2 tires did it in 1:10.3. We know the 6MT Competition on PSS did it in 1:13.5. Seems very likely that the F87C gets very close to 1:11.2 with Cup 2 tires and a DCT.

Not going to lie, I would have put money down the G87 on cup 2’s would be quicker than F87cs. G82 has been proven to produce quicker times tha F82cs.

[ESB]

I have an F87 and not in the market for a G87 and even I was sort of eye rolling at some of the comments that Thomas was making.

It’s been over 24 hours since I watched it so can’t remember specifics but it just felt like he was reaching for any reason to throw shade at the G87.

Also, I don’t really care for how the G87 looks but it wins over the RS3 any day of the week.

[Game]

They really seem to dislike the car to the point where it's almost personal. Can't win them all I guess.

I don't think the G87 is a gorgeous car...but to me it still beats the RS3...especially in that highlighter green.

[bholler]

And we all though BMW front ends we’re becoming trash.

What the heck happen to Audi?!?!

[ESB]

Originally Posted by Game

They really seem to dislike the car to the point where it's almost personal. Can't win them all I guess.

I don't think the G87 is a gorgeous car...but to me it still beats the RS3...especially in that highlighter green.

The main thing I took offense to in the RS3 is that massive ugly grille / front.

[Ctothej]

Originally Posted by Covfefe

You can laugh all you want. That reflects on you, not my comment.

<2.5 seconds isn't impressive at all when the old car was on Pilot Super Sports which are a generation behind and an aggressiveness level down from the Cup 2, and the old car was 6mt.

We know the 6MT CS on Cup 2 tires did it in 1:10.3. We know the 6MT Competition on PSS did it in 1:13.5. Seems very likely that the F87C gets very close to 1:11.2 with Cup 2 tires and a DCT.

1. The G87 is 0.3+ seconds quicker 0-60 than the F87 comp.
2. The G87 is better planted and turns into corners better
3. The S58 is faster at the top end than the S55. Where exactly do you expect the F87C to beat the G87? Be it in a straight or a track. The weight difference does not make up for these. And without the weight difference, the gap might have been 2.8 seconds+, but no point speculating as we don't know real world times yet.

2.5 seconds on a track is significant mate. It's the same difference between the G87 and the M4 CSL and the ZR1 and it would be ludicrous of me to suggest the G87 can beat them, with everything else being equal.

Once we all accept that technology improves over time and so do performance stats (HP, speed, lap times etc), it will be a lot easier to move forward.

[Covfefe]

Originally Posted by Ctothej

2.5 seconds on a track is significant mate. It's the same difference between the G87 and the M4 CSL and the ZR1 and it would be ludicrous of me to suggest the G87 can beat them, with everything else being equal.

Of course 2.5 seconds is significant on a 1 minute track, but equally significant are tire and transmission choices. F87CS and F87C lap times suggest that the F87C with Cup 2 and DCT would be very, very close to 1:11.2, and nothing you said disproves that.

Unless you are suggesting that old Pilot Super Sports and 6mt didn't hold back the F87C compared to the G87 w/ ZF8 and Cup 2? Because that is a VERY bold argument.

[mecheng77]

Thomas owns a F87

[02M3ForMe]

F87C beats the G87 at the Throttle House 4th gear challenge, so there's that.

Interestingly, in the Motor Trend thread where MT declares the G87 a thorough performance upgrade over the F87 CS, lots of people said the results were obvious and that *of course* the G87 beat the old car at everything. Yet, here we are.

[AlpineBoost]

Naturally, the G87 time will only get better should they choose to run it more. Some of the cars on their leaderboard have been featured in multiple videos months apart so who knows how many times they've really run them around to get these times. The same exact M2C originally ran 1:13.9, FK8 ran 1:14.81, etc.

[Covfefe]

Originally Posted by AlpineBoost

The same exact M2C originally ran 1:13.9

They covered this in the 1:13.5 video. They said that they made improvements to the track; the 0.4 seconds wasn't attributed to driving skill. But it's possible that familiarity played a small role.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Ctothej

1. The G87 is 0.3+ seconds quicker 0-60 than the F87 comp.
2. The G87 is better planted and turns into corners better
3. The S58 is faster at the top end than the S55. Where exactly do you expect the F87C to beat the G87? Be it in a straight or a track. The weight difference does not make up for these. And without the weight difference, the gap might have been 2.8 seconds+, but no point speculating as we don't know real world times yet.

2.5 seconds on a track is significant mate. It's the same difference between the G87 and the M4 CSL and the ZR1 and it would be ludicrous of me to suggest the G87 can beat them, with everything else being equal.

Once we all accept that technology improves over time and so do performance stats (HP, speed, lap times etc), it will be a lot easier to move forward.

Tires alone can help in lateral grip, corner speed, braking, putting power down out of corners. I could easily see a DTC Comp on Cup 2 getting within 1sec of F87CS time. Newer PS4S have been proven to be 1sec slower over 1min lap vs Cup 2. The older PSS is an inferior tire to PS4S.

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Interestingly, in the Motor Trend thread where MT declares the G87 a thorough performance upgrade over the F87 CS, lots of people said the results were obvious and that *of course* the G87 beat the old car at everything. Yet, here we are.

I said it above, very surprised the G87 on Cup 2's wasn't quicker than F87CS. G82 has been proven to put down quicker lap times than the outgoing F82CS.

[MMMGuy60]

It is a very short and small track. On a bigger track with longer straights etc, the G87 will widen the lead. Just wait for next year's C&D lighting lap. I wouldn't be surprised if the G87 is close or beats the M2 CS time.

[AlpineBoost]

Originally Posted by Covfefe

They covered this in the 1:13.5 video. They said that they made improvements to the track; the 0.4 seconds wasn't attributed to driving skill. But it's possible that familiarity played a small role.

Makes more sense. So same with the FK8 then? Must be the same situation with originally posting the CTR time prior to the track improvements. I agree on the familiarity though even with him owning a OG and not a C. You would expect a really good time given his seat time in any F87.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by MMMGuy60

It is a very short and small track. On a bigger track with longer straights etc, the G87 will widen the lead. Just wait for next year's C&D lighting lap. I wouldn't be surprised if the G87 is close or beats the M2 CS time.

+1

[supershaft]

lmao at some nutter saying the M2 is better than a Carrera. Look, if you had to pick a manual car to drive where price wasn't in the equation no one would take the M2.

The M2 is great because it's a *relative* bargain.

[Ctothej]

Originally Posted by 2008M36MT

So many butthurt M2 guys. Not only is the car hideous, and looks totally unfinished from the front, and with taillights in opposite zip codes in the rear, it gets shit on by the Supra and now seems to be the overall worse car to the Audi, which looks a million times better.
It’s just ugly and unimpressive.

Must. Not. Feed. The. Trolls. But. Can't. Help. It.

Off all the comments on that page, yours sounds the most butthurt.

Will just leave this here, and I quote, "This thing is amazing". Coming from guys who were running the Supra previously. No affiliation, no bias, pure driving enthusiasts.

[Ctothej]

Originally Posted by Covfefe

Of course 2.5 seconds is significant on a 1 minute track, but equally significant are tire and transmission choices. F87CS and F87C lap times suggest that the F87C with Cup 2 and DCT would be very, very close to 1:11.2, and nothing you said disproves that.

Unless you are suggesting that old Pilot Super Sports and 6mt didn't hold back the F87C compared to the G87 w/ ZF8 and Cup 2? Because that is a VERY bold argument.

Agreed that the old PSS and MT may have held the M2C back but again, not close to the 1:11, for the reasons I mentioned. We're still looking at 1-1.5 seconds in terms of difference given its a 1 minute track. And remember, you're comparing a comp F87 with a base G87. If there is ever a comp G87, let's compare that against the comp F87. Same with the CS and so forth. Goes back to my point that cars improve over generations, a fact everyone knows....