[///MoT]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

Holy cow. I’ve spent the last 3 hours tweaking inside the PC Tool. Wow, what a difference! As I suspected the time alignment was all jacked. I took measurements to a tripod I set up in the drivers seat and got it 90% dialed just doing that. I then fine-tweaked the last 10% by ear. I have a crisp front stage now with good imaging and tight midbass. I was also able to get my RF sub all time-aligned and dialed in. There are some certain frequencies (the usual suspects 1Khz-2Khz-ish) that are pretty harsh. It is much easier to tone these down using the DSP’s EQ vs the car’s EQ. What a difference though. Dayum.

That is interesting about the dynamic loudness - I suspected something like that was happening as I was chasing channel sound levels for quite a while at various different volume levels. I’ve gotta get back in and disable that if I can.

Would you mind sharing the sound profile you saved, after getting the time alignments fixed? Would be interested to compare what I have to what you have. I know our heads are probably in slightly different positions when sitting in the driver's seat, but I'd like to compare nonetheless.


Thanks!
Tom

[///MoT]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

Where is the global gain control? I had to adjust gain at each channel, which was a pain.

Setting a high global could possibly be a way to avoid the dynamic loudness discussed above, too.

In the "IO" section, in the upper right corner, labeled "Main Routing".


-Tom

[///MoT]

Originally Posted by AdonisP91

I read in other threads people were complaining about the blinker sounds and the start chimes, and other system bongs as being extremely loud and overly amplified after installing the Alpha One Amp. Did you experience that yourself? Trying to fix the DLC issue with channel gain output might exacerbate this other issue?

Perhaps you were able to fix the blinker problem by adjusting the input gain under the DCM tab top right, and then under the Signal Management tab on the left side?

Yes, I had this problem and found out how to resolve it using the Input Sensitivity settings. I can give instructions for this if anyone needs it; just lemme know.

Also, even after adjusting the Input Sensitivity settings, the ASD (fake engine noises) was still unbearable, so I had to code out ASD using BimmerCode.


-Tom

[AdonisP91]

Originally Posted by ///MoT

Yes, I had this problem and found out how to resolve it using the Input Sensitivity settings. I can give instructions for this if anyone needs it; just lemme know.

Also, even after adjusting the Input Sensitivity settings, the ASD (fake engine noises) was still unbearable, so I had to code out ASD using BimmerCode.


-Tom

Ya I intend to code out the ASD when I get the car. If you can share how you adjusted the input sensitivity that would be fantastic 👍

[BMW DIY Guy]

Of course I hope we can get these Uber profiles shared our. Really appreciate all the hard work to dial these systems in even further.

[///MoT]

Originally Posted by AdonisP91

Ya I intend to code out the ASD when I get the car. If you can share how you adjusted the input sensitivity that would be fantastic 👍

1. In the PC-Tool app, go to DCM (not FX like I mistakenly circled in the 1st screenshot lol).
2. Select the "Signal Management" tab, then click the Advanced Gain Adjustment button. (2nd screenshot)
3. Adjust the sliders as shown in the 3rd screenshot

Mine defaulted to the top 3 sliders set to 8.0 Vrms, and the bottom slider for the subwoofers was set to 32.0 Vrms. Moving those top 3 sliders down to 16 Vrms reduced the turn signal noise, warning bongs, etc. back down close to normal levels.

Hope this helps!


-Tom

[BMW DIY Guy]

Originally Posted by ///MoT

In the PC-Tool app, go to DCM (not FX like I mistakenly circled in the 1st screenshot lol).
Select the "Signal Management" tab, then click the Advanced Gain Adjustment button. (2nd screenshot)
Adjust the sliders as shown in the 3rd screenshot


Mine defaulted to the top 3 sliders set to 8.0 Vrms, and the bottom slider for the subwoofers was set to 32.0 Vrms. Moving those top 3 sliders down to 16 Vrms reduced the turn signal noise, warning bongs, etc. back down close to normal levels.

Hope this helps!


-Tom

Oh yall I am so loving this thread! My turn signals are louder so this is great to bring them back to reasonable levels.

I am guessing there is an infinite amount of tweaking here, but once we hit that 90%+ perfect I cannot wait for the file to be shared.

This is really great work!!

[AdonisP91]

It looks like Tom solved the system sounds for us by showing us how to change the input sensitivity. So thanks!

I thought for the curious I'd get a little geeky and try explain a little more why we would want to correct the Dynamic Loudness Control (warning this post will be long). As I mentioned up above, the basic idea is the stock system boosts bass and trebles at low volumes and at higher volume it removes the boost. The question is why would BMW do this?

So let's start by pointing out the obvious, most of us know that the human ear can typically hear between 20hz and 20 khz. What we might not all know is studies have shown that the human hearing is not equal across all frequencies. It is especially good at the mid range, but it doesn't perform as well at the low and high frequencies. To know more look up Fletcher–Munson curves.

So what a lot of people end up doing on the equalizers is turn up the bass and treble at the low and high frequencies leaving the mid-range alone. You might have seen this infamous V like shape. This is a form of Loudness Compensation to account for the inefficiencies of the human ear.

BMW and other manufacturers however have taken it one step further. They don't systematically compensate at all sound volumes. At the lower volumes the Loudness Compensation is good. At the higher volumes since they remove the Loudness Compensation, hence why it is called Dynamic Loudness Control, the system will sound like shit.

There are 3 possible reasons I can think of why they do this:

1) The speakers are shit and so if they allow them to be played at full volume and power they will potentially break down. In short they are doing this to protect the speakers.

2) The speakers are fine, but the amp itself isn't powerful enough to power everything and keep up the sound quality. If the amp isn't good enough at higher power outputs, as required by the higher volume, it will start clipping the sound or introducing distortion. There will be a lot of noise in the signal.

3) The speakers and amp might fine, but the car's insulation isn't very good and as a result tons of vibrations and rattles occur, which can give the impression the build quality of the vehicle is shit when music is played loud.

If we remove the Dynamic Loudness Control using the Audiotech-Fischer DSP software we will be able to more easily identify which of the 3 options above hold and we will be able to recapture the lost bass at high volumes. If anyone happens to think of other possibilities, please mention them.

I posted upthread the Audiotech-Fischer article that explains how to do this, and once I get my car I will do it and share with others. The same system will be applied in all our cars so it only takes one of us to correct it and share the results.

The question now remains: ok so if we take out the Dynamic Loudness Control, how do we compensate for the human ear's deficiencies? The answer here is using Target Curves. Let's take a look at some classic ones.



The red curve is the infamous Harmon Kardon target curve. The pink is your typical room curve. The green one is the Golden Ears. To understand what is going on, I note that reference level is 90db. So what we observe is in all the curves the low range (bass) is boosted. In most curves the high range (treble) drops off, and in the Golden Ears (green) it stays flat. None boost the high frequencies past 90 db.

These target curves apply at all volume levels, so by boosting bass, one compensates for the human's ear naturally deficiency. Why not boost the treble? Harmon Kardon did studies on this and most people found that if the treble is boosted not only does the sound come off as overly bright, but people's ears fatigued very quickly.

The study also found that for the average listener, the Green curve, Golden Ears, was most preferred. For pure audiophiles that listen to music for very long periods of time at high levels, they preferred the red curve. So if you are mostly doing short trips to work and back, you might prefer the Green curve. If you are doing long road trips blasting the music, you might prefer the Red curve.

The good thing is the Audiotech-Fischer software already let's us pick and choose. We can manually design any target curve we want, but take a look at their 2 stock curves. If you look at the bottom right, where it says reference curve, we have ATF Daily and ATF SQ (Sound Quality). The ATF Daily looks like a Harmon Kardon target curve (red in the above picture), and the ATF SQ looks like the Golden Ears (green) above.

[kenkamm]

Originally Posted by AdonisP91

[snip]I thought for the curious I'd get a little geeky and try explain a little more why we would want to correct the Dynamic Loudness Control (warning this post will be long). As I mentioned up above, the basic idea is the stock system boosts bass and trebles at low volumes and at higher volume it removes the boost. The question is why would BMW do this?[snip]

The reason BMW does this is because of human ear response curves at various SPL levels. They are simply trying to make the music sound the same at all listening levels.

To me personally, I think they actually under-did it. To my ears, there is still more bass and treble at higher volumes.

Here's a graph of how the human ear's frequency response changes with SPL.

[whatthehuck]

You guys are all awesome. I'm loving the deeper analysis, this is right up my alley as I have a background in creating and editing guitar tones for my MFX pedals. I gotta get a laptop and I'll be playing with all this stuff more.

Also, I've noticed this sound since I uploaded some new tweaks, not sure what's causing it. I'll have to start hitting all the buttons to see if I can track it down. When the music is on or off, doesn't matter, there's a very high pitched whine coming from the speakers. Doesn't matter if I turn the power off to the infotainment system or not, if the car has any kind of power running it's making this sound.

If upload video but it looks like I can't. Sad day.

[///MoT]

Originally Posted by whatthehuck

You guys are all awesome. I'm loving the deeper analysis, this is right up my alley as I have a background in creating and editing guitar tones for my MFX pedals. I gotta get a laptop and I'll be playing with all this stuff more.

Also, I've noticed this sound since I uploaded some new tweaks, not sure what's causing it. I'll have to start hitting all the buttons to see if I can track it down. When the music is on or off, doesn't matter, there's a very high pitched whine coming from the speakers. Doesn't matter if I turn the power off to the infotainment system or not, if the car has any kind of power running it's making this sound.

If upload video but it looks like I can't. Sad day.

I'm a guitarist as well, and primarily use a Kemper.

Does the high pitched whine change pitch along with the RPMs of the engine by chance?


-Tom

[BMW DIY Guy]

Originally Posted by whatthehuck

You guys are all awesome. I'm loving the deeper analysis, this is right up my alley as I have a background in creating and editing guitar tones for my MFX pedals. I gotta get a laptop and I'll be playing with all this stuff more.

Also, I've noticed this sound since I uploaded some new tweaks, not sure what's causing it. I'll have to start hitting all the buttons to see if I can track it down. When the music is on or off, doesn't matter, there's a very high pitched whine coming from the speakers. Doesn't matter if I turn the power off to the infotainment system or not, if the car has any kind of power running it's making this sound.

If upload video but it looks like I can't. Sad day.

LET THEM COOK!!!

By the time yall work this system over thoroughly, there will be "One Map to Rule them All"!

[itguy61]

Originally Posted by ///MoT

I'm a guitarist as well, and primarily use a Kemper.

Does the high pitched whine change pitch along with the RPMs of the engine by chance?


-Tom

Fractal man here. Tone chasing in our cars, tone chasing with our guitars!

[whatthehuck]

Originally Posted by ///MoT

I'm a guitarist as well, and primarily use a Kemper.

Does the high pitched whine change pitch along with the RPMs of the engine by chance?


-Tom

I saw that in the email you sent me haha. I've been a Line6 guy for a long time, got a spider 5 head half stack and a helix pedal.

To answer your question, no it doesn't change pitch. Stays the same all the time, just a constant background high pitched fuzz. I'm trying to upload it to youtube so I can link it here for you to hear.

On another note, I don't see any sound profiles for our cars, are you guys using the one for the G42?

[whatthehuck]

Here we go

https://youtube.com/shorts/9XwfceZrC...ZtB-gD2TSl53mn

[///MoT]

Originally Posted by whatthehuck

Here we go

https://youtube.com/shorts/9XwfceZrC...ZtB-gD2TSl53mn

Hmmm, I don't have that high pitched whine with mine.

Did you connect the negative lead of your Alpha 1 amp to a bare metal spot on the car, or directly to the negative terminal on the battery?

[///MoT]

Originally Posted by whatthehuck

<snip> On another note, I don't see any sound profiles for our cars, are you guys using the one for the G42?

I started with the ones BT sent me, which are the ones I emailed to you. They knew what kind of car I have, so I'm assuming they setup their files specifically for our cars. And I believe they claim to do this on their web site and in their product videos on YT.

If you're referring to the sound profiles available from Audiotec Fischer, I also didn't find any G8x specific ones (or F8x for that matter), so didn't bother downloading any other ones.


-Tom

[whatthehuck]

Originally Posted by ///MoT

Hmmm, I don't have that high pitched whine with mine.

Did you connect the negative lead of your Alpha 1 amp to a bare metal spot on the car, or directly to the negative terminal on the battery?

The post in the battery well of the trunk, right next to the negative battery terminal.

[///MoT]

Originally Posted by whatthehuck

The post in the battery well of the trunk, right next to the negative battery terminal.

Does the whine only occur with certain sound profiles? Maybe the gain or input sensitivity is set too high in some of the profiles?

[BMW DIY Guy]

Originally Posted by whatthehuck

Here we go

https://youtube.com/shorts/9XwfceZrC...ZtB-gD2TSl53mn

oh that would drive me crazy.. did you upgrade the speakers too? If so, did all the speakers get the inline filter installed?

[AdonisP91]

Originally Posted by ///MoT

1. In the PC-Tool app, go to DCM (not FX like I mistakenly circled in the 1st screenshot lol).
2. Select the "Signal Management" tab, then click the Advanced Gain Adjustment button. (2nd screenshot)
3. Adjust the sliders as shown in the 3rd screenshot

Mine defaulted to the top 3 sliders set to 8.0 Vrms, and the bottom slider for the subwoofers was set to 32.0 Vrms. Moving those top 3 sliders down to 16 Vrms reduced the turn signal noise, warning bongs, etc. back down close to normal levels.

Hope this helps!


-Tom

I was reading through the manual from Audiotech-Fischer for the MatchUp 10 DSP (the same unit rebranded by BimmerTech as Alpha One) and they explain that if the subwoofers are set to 32.0 Vrms, there is a jumper inside the amp that needs to be set to the J2 position to handle the higher voltage. One would assume that BimmerTech knows this and already moved the jumper from the J1 16 volt position to the 32 volt position but given the cost of this equipment it might be worth double checking.

See page 37 at the bottom for pictures. Page 35-37 explain how to set the Input Sensitivity as you already have.
https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/medi...7-2021_Web.pdf

[AdonisP91]

Originally Posted by ///MoT

I started with the ones BT sent me, which are the ones I emailed to you. They knew what kind of car I have, so I'm assuming they setup their files specifically for our cars. And I believe they claim to do this on their web site and in their product videos on YT.

If you're referring to the sound profiles available from Audiotec Fischer, I also didn't find any G8x specific ones (or F8x for that matter), so didn't bother downloading any other ones.


-Tom

The BT ones should be good to work with, but also keep in mind the G series cars all have the same HK sound system with 16 speakers, 7 tweeters, 7 mids, and 2 subs. So the sound profiles from AudioTech-Fischer are identical. So if one goes to the link I posted up thread, one just needs to select any G series car. For the time being while I play with the demo software (while I wait for my car to be produced), I am just selecting the 4 series G22. But no matter what G series you choose the file downloaded will be the same file (I tested this).

The crossovers, input sensitivity, loudness compensation will all be the same across all cars. What will matter specifically for the G42 or G87 will be the time alignments and phase, and those will be unique to our individual listening positions anyway.